Vacc suits and clothing...

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Greetings,
I'm interrested in hearing people's opinion on the humble vacc suit: Can regular clothing be worn underneath (within reason, of course)? No, you must wear a special under-suit, or sure wear whatever you wish but we strongly recommend a body pressure sleeve?

Perhaps it differs depending on the TL of the suit?

Or to turn the question around, is the classic slim-fit jumpsuit favoured as shipborne clothing beacause it fits snugly underneath vacc suits or because its onepiece design makes it simple to remove quickly prior to donning the vacc suit?

Bonus question: What does an environment suit (CSC p156) look like? At first I was thinking it's just a high-tech version of arctic clothing, but now I'm more into it being kinda like a sturdy but not too bulky jumpsuit with a hoodie and builtin gloves?

 

[sideranautae]

Vacc suits today cannot be worm without a special undersuit. That article of clothing provides cooling, waste elimination hook ups & bio monitor hook ups. I imagine as higher TL cooling could be accomplished without the coolant tubes and the bio monitoring could be less onerous. Still, the sanitary hook ups remain...

The Environment Suit being unpowered, could protect against extreme cold via very good insulators a la flexible aerogel material BUT, not against extreme heat. That would require power. The writer screwed up on this item.

 

[Matt Wilson]

If you're Sigourney Weaver you have to strip down to your underwear.

I get the sense that vacc-suits are not for the everyday space traveller and require some training to use. Most civvies I think would probably seal up in their stateroom or get in some kind of emergency bubble. That says to me that a vacc suit would be for specialized use and therefore less user friendly than "keep your regular clothes on." Less consumer shopping website and more enterprise software administrator interface.

 

[Rick]

There must exist some sort of equivalent of the modern airline life jacket/buoyancy vest as a simple to use vacc suit - not just a survival bubble, something you could move around in and didn't balloon up in low atmosphere.

 

[sideranautae]

There must exist some sort of equivalent of the modern airline life jacket/buoyancy vest as a simple to use vacc suit - not just a survival bubble, something you could move around in and didn't balloon up in low atmosphere.

The postulated item is one that supplies physical compression across the entire body. "Human skin does not need to be protected from vacuum and is gas-tight by itself. Instead, it only needs to be mechanically compressed to retain its normal shape. This can be accomplished with a tight-fitting elastic body suit and a helmet for containing breathing gases, known as a space activity suit (SAS)." space_suit in wiki has this entry.

This makes for no joint ballooning and easier movement.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I let players describe how their suit works and is worn.

 

[sideranautae]

I let players describe how their suit works and is worn.

That could make for some dead PC's. :lol:

 

[JBRocky]

Also remember the TL15 Vacc Suit is the IISS uniform. So while lower tech suits are hard to use need and need special training to use the high tech ones are probably rather comfortable and look just like a regular jumpsuit.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

If you're Sigourney Weaver you have to strip down to your underwear.

I get the sense that vacc-suits are not for the everyday space traveller and require some training to use. Most civvies I think would probably seal up in their stateroom or get in some kind of emergency bubble. That says to me that a vacc suit would be for specialized use and therefore less user friendly than "keep your regular clothes on." Less consumer shopping website and more enterprise software administrator interface.

That is if you like being a helpless civilian in need of rescue, I suspect most players would not relish that role.
Referee: "Sorry, you can't do anything, your inside a rescue bubble!"

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

@JBRocky it is? I did not know that, interesting!

@sideranautae Thanks for the info! Spent some wiki-time learning a lot more about space suits (don't know why I didn't think to do that myself before)

@Tom Exactly, I was assuming a player and/or starship crews, people who might have reason to wear vacc suits at least semi-regularly.

Perhaps a compromise, for short and casual space-walks one could wear whatever feels appropriate, but for serious work the pressure sleeve (or some other specialized under-garment) should be worn? And the higher the TL of the suit, the longer one can be comfortable without special clothing?

Alternatively, it doesn't sound too unreasonable to (as an option, perhaps?) integrate the functions if the under-garment into the main suit. This could in effect yield almost the same result as above - short and casual, wear clothes; serious work, wear as little as possible (more skin contact should mean more effective climate control?)

 

[Reynard]

The core book only lists the Vacc suit and the Hostile Environment Vacc Suit both starting at TL 8 creations and naturally not the best of innovations. I would say the undersuit is part of the cost. It's the TL 14 Vacc Suit, Tailored that shows the state of technology creating an efficient and comfortable unit that also becomes a standard uniform for starship crews. In emergencies, you grab your nearby hood and face mask.

The Central supply Catalogue list more variations, one being the TL 8 Emergency Softsuit. Until you can find the TL 14 Vacc, these are the crew choice for a life jacket. As the book says, these are (supposed) to be carried for all crew and passengers. I picture cases mounted at key locations around a ship. When passengers come aboard, they get a briefing to the operation of ES and where the nearest ES is located. In some way, I would say the ES would allow normal clothing, not shoes) as you are dressing very quickly with them.

 

[wbnc]

I've always thought that( In Traveller Setting) at most you can fit not much more than a jump suit, or undergarments under a Vacc Suit. Even the newer model suits used by NASA, or the Ones proposed for Mars Missions are still the sort that do not have much room inside for clothing.

Yes they are usually very advanced designs, with hundreds of years of experience involved in designing a vacc-suit, there are a few practical problems. even if it's advanced enough to be a rugged jumpsuit, light packs, helmet, boots, and gloves, it would be like trying to wear something under a heavily insulated ski suit, or coveralls...you can do it but it's not comfortable for any length of time.

If I read the book right, central supply has a tailored vacc suit. Which I sort of Imagine looking like the pilots uniforms from the New Battlestar Galactica.

Vacc Suit, Tailored (TL 14): An advanced vacc suit which is not much
bulkier than heavy clothing. It can be worn as a shipboard uniform,
though most users find this aggravating after a while – a vacc suit
is simply not as comfortable as clothing. The suit is completed by
gauntlets, a chest/back back containing air and power supplies and
a helmet when necessary.

 

[sideranautae]

If I read the book right, central supply has a tailored vacc suit. Which I sort of Imagine looking like the pilots uniforms from the New Battlestar Galactica.

Vacc Suit, Tailored (TL 14): An advanced vacc suit which is not much
bulkier than heavy clothing. It can be worn as a shipboard uniform,
though most users find this aggravating after a while – a vacc suit
is simply not as comfortable as clothing. The suit is completed by
gauntlets, a chest/back back containing air and power supplies and
a helmet when necessary.

This rendition of a tailored isn't as good as some in prior editions. For instance, the helmet should be integrated as a soft helm that you flip out of the collar. In some other iteration the Scout shipboard uniform was a tailored vacc suit that was worn all the time. So, the CSC needs an update... A ship vacc suit will have different and less requirements than a full EVA suit.

 

[JBRocky]

@JBRocky it is? I did not know that, interesting!

Yup its either in the old DGP product Grand Census or Grand Survey I forget which one off the top of my head. Even has a picture of Vacc Suit progression from TL8 or so all the way up, and if you find some pictures of Scouts at the time that jump suit they are wearing is a Vacc Suit.

 

[Reynard]

MegaTraveller's World Builders Handbook also has several forms of Vacc Suit and accessories.

 

[sideranautae]

@JBRocky it is? I did not know that, interesting!

Yup its either in the old DGP product Grand Census or Grand Survey I forget which one off the top of my head. Even has a picture of Vacc Suit progression from TL8 or so all the way up, and if you find some pictures of Scouts at the time that jump suit they are wearing is a Vacc Suit.

It's Grand Survey. I grabbed it from the closet. And, as I mentioned, helmets on TL 15 suits can be folded into collar. The front cover has the pics of the Scouts wearing tailored vacc suits as uniforms. Good memory JB

 

[Reynard]

The TL 14 Tailored Vacc in the core book does mention a flexible hood and face mask. Sounds like both would be in a pouch or something so they are available at a moment's notice. I see the Tailored Worn only in battle and hazard potential conditions rather than in regular stand down. If there was a sudden incident, crew and passengers would go for the Emergency Suits.

 

[alex_greene]

I let players describe how their suit works and is worn.

That could make for some dead PC's. :lol:

Which any competent referee would just happily add to his extensive "Cause Of Death: Failed Survival Roll" column.

 

[JBRocky]

@JBRocky it is? I did not know that, interesting!

Yup its either in the old DGP product Grand Census or Grand Survey I forget which one off the top of my head. Even has a picture of Vacc Suit progression from TL8 or so all the way up, and if you find some pictures of Scouts at the time that jump suit they are wearing is a Vacc Suit.

It's Grand Survey. I grabbed it from the closet. And, as I mentioned, helmets on TL 15 suits can be folded into collar. The front cover has the pics of the Scouts wearing tailored vacc suits as uniforms. Good memory JB

Thanks both re real good books just to have as reference so if you get the chance get a dead tree, or PDF copy. While they are an early DGP product the production value is not as good as later stuff but still worth just having around, probably the same for MT World Builders handbook. Lots of the GURPS stuff is the same I have them for reference and ideas and use MgT rules.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Yup its either in the old DGP product Grand Census or Grand Survey I forget which one off the top of my head. Even has a picture of Vacc Suit progression from TL8 or so all the way up, and if you find some pictures of Scouts at the time that jump suit they are wearing is a Vacc Suit.

It's Grand Survey. I grabbed it from the closet. And, as I mentioned, helmets on TL 15 suits can be folded into collar. The front cover has the pics of the Scouts wearing tailored vacc suits as uniforms. Good memory JB

Thanks both re real good books just to have as reference so if you get the chance get a dead tree, or PDF copy. While they are an early DGP product the production value is not as good as later stuff but still worth just having around, probably the same for MT World Builders handbook. Lots of the GURPS stuff is the same I have them for reference and ideas and use MgT rules.

I don't see there being a whole lot to talk about here. There is only so much one can say about vacc suits. One constant is you can't unzip your fly to take a leak, you can't flip open your face plate to scratch your nose, not if you are in space. Imagine the inconvenience if you get a speck of dust in your eye or a loose eye lash. If you got a cold and a runny nose, the inside of a spacesuit is not the place to be!