UWP Tech Level?

[MonsterX]

If you have to make it into what you want it to be due to poor quality control, then why buy the product? Also, why keep printing the same crap for 40+ years instead of actually fixing it? Not only do the IP-owners keep not fixing the previous mistakes. They care so little for quality control that there writers now are still not required to follow any sort of rules for Charted Space.

Maybe this works for players who like using adventure modules or like being lead around by the nose, but it doesn't work if you run sandbox campaigns.

If every word that came out of Mongoose had to be vetted and thoroughly checked over for consistency, nothing would ever get published. I think what Mongoose, and all the other Traveller associated companies, have managed to but together is actually quite impressive. There are inconsistencies and mistakes everywhere, not everything works that well, and therefore you have use your own common sense when refereeing. I'd rather have a big complex universe with deep history and a lot going on, than have a small simple place that works flawlessly. Because that's the choice here.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If every word that came out of Mongoose had to be vetted and thoroughly checked over for consistency, nothing would ever get published. I think what Mongoose, and all the other Traveller associated companies, have managed to but together is actually quite impressive. There are inconsistencies and mistakes everywhere, not everything works that well, and therefore you have use your own common sense when refereeing. I'd rather have a big complex universe with deep history and a lot going on, than have a small simple place that works flawlessly. Because that's the choice here.

Why do you see this as binary? Having one person read over the new material to make sure that it works with the old material would not mean that nothing ever gets published. Unless you also don't think any Star Wars stuff got published back in the day without GL having his say?

Also, you don't have a big complex universe if it doesn't connect together. You have a bunch of procedurally-disconnected systems and the only history is 40+ years of writers desperately trying to explain why nothing makes sense and writing conflicting accounts of those explanations.

Like I said, all it would take is one guy reading everything to make sure that it is all consistent, doesn't contradict already published rules, not retcon previously published material without a special okay from whomever is in charge overall of the Charted Space setting. Simple and not overly expensive. Seems like half of the gronards on here would do it for free, so the paycheck would be more of a bonus. The job would have to be done by what would basically be a "Charted Space Historian". They way, when changes are made to the setting, they are intentional, and the consequences of that change have been thought through. Same with the game rules.

 

[phavoc]

World of Greyhawk is *one* world. Charted Space has tens of thousands of star systems. It is only natural that the attention given to each planet will be limited at best, and often there are only random numbers or nothing at all.

Well, sure. But it was also in the age of horses, and people traveled by foot. The hex distances for that form of travel were no different than the parsecs that Traveller shows.

The point is that the game provided details and layout at the appropriate level. The designers knew their limitations and stayed within them rather than try and put the same level of detail for the entire planet.

I think GDW may have had the same thought process. However, since they were doing star systems they turned to random die rolls due to scale. They might have been better off detailing out a sector at a time (ala Spinward Marches) whereby it was at the scale that COULD be designed at that level with sufficient details.

Traveller also posits singular points of interest in a system with their maps (aka the main world). Intra-system details are essentially left blank other than their being a star, at least one planet and an indication of whether or not a gas giant exists. Greyhawk did similar things - only major bodies of water, and major rivers were on the map. Everything else was left up to DM's to determine if they felt it was needed or not. Pointing that out to be fair to GDW designers.

 

[phavoc]

I'd also suggest that within the context of a Traveller sector, each mainworld is equivalent to a settlement. Some are mighty cities, others are unimportant villages.

The Spinward Marches (1979) contains 439 worlds over 16 subsectors.

World of Greyhawk (1980) contains 50 regions, most of which get a paragraph and the name of the capital, which may or may not be shown on the big map. Furyondy gets a close in map with lesser settlements shown.

The scope is different in many ways, but honestly, I'd say they're pretty close in functionality. Similar in page count as well.

That's a fair comparison. Hyper-level of details are not always needed or wanted, and sometimes provide too much restrictions. When I got The Traveller book I liked that the Regina sub-sector had details on the worlds - or at least some description of every system. When you are creating entire star systems sometimes only a paragraph is enough, at times its not.

However this is where it gets odd when you start getting TL6 worlds with population in the 10s of billions. How does a back-water world grow so much and feed itself with such low level tech? And why would it be so populous and still remain so low-tech? If you create such conundrums then designers kind of need at least some logic as to the reasoning for that.

 

[boggo2300]

Well, sure. But it was also in the age of horses, and people traveled by foot. The hex distances for that form of travel were no different than the parsecs that Traveller shows.

The point is that the game provided details and layout at the appropriate level. The designers knew their limitations and stayed within them rather than try and put the same level of detail for the entire planet.

I think GDW may have had the same thought process. However, since they were doing star systems they turned to random die rolls due to scale. They might have been better off detailing out a sector at a time (ala Spinward Marches) whereby it was at the scale that COULD be designed at that level with sufficient details.

Traveller also posits singular points of interest in a system with their maps (aka the main world). Intra-system details are essentially left blank other than their being a star, at least one planet and an indication of whether or not a gas giant exists. Greyhawk did similar things - only major bodies of water, and major rivers were on the map. Everything else was left up to DM's to determine if they felt it was needed or not. Pointing that out to be fair to GDW designers.

Though when Greyhawk's Folio was released in 1980, Gygax and Blume had been developing that setting for 8 years, Spinward Marches development began after the release of CT I believe. and had maybe 2 years development before release in 79?

 

[MonsterX]

only history is 40+ years of writers desperately trying to explain why nothing makes sense and writing conflicting accounts of those explanations.

So, like real history, except only 40 years instead of 4000

 

[MasterGwydion]

So, like real history, except only 40 years instead of 4000

Except it isn't real history. It is sloppy work.

 

[Condottiere]

It's more about consistency.

You may or may not agree with the written rules, but they, more or less, are the same across the entire edition.

If there exceptions, the exceptions must be explained, and hopefully, make sense within the context of the setting.

 

[rinku]

Though when Greyhawk's Folio was released in 1980, Gygax and Blume had been developing that setting for 8 years, Spinward Marches development began after the release of CT I believe. and had maybe 2 years development before release in 79?

A little more. Regina subsector and by extension The Marches, is what Marc Miller used in playtesting, so it's probably more like 3-4 years if you're counting Greyhawk as starting when Gygax did the same.