Utgardloki's thoughts on the Runequest Companion

[Utgardloki]

I have just bought the Runequest Companion. As I am reading it, some thoughts are going through my mind...

Skills: It seems complicated that the defaults for some skills are the sum of two attributes, and the defaults for some skills are a single attribute. This makes it more complicated to add new skills, because it is not obvious what the default should be.

I also don't like using Lore (Specific Theology) for divine magic. Divine magic is not wizardry or runecasting. I'd prefer to define a Faith skill (default: POW) which is used to cast divine magic, and also only require one roll to master the spell. Once a spell is mastered, no further rolls are required to cast it, although a Faith roll may be required if an opposed roll applies.

I'd like to see cults developed with more detail. I was impressed with the original Runequest which required stating why a cult existed and why it continues to exist.

Divine magic should be acquired by the sacrifice of hero points rather than the sacrifice of silver pieces. After all, the Bible does not say "If you have 3,200 silver pieces you can ...".

I also don't like divine magic spells being lost from the caster's memory. I'd rather just have them cost POW or Magic Points to cast.

(For my Iron Kingdoms conversion, I'll probably institute a system of ranks, with hero points being required to enter each rank, and each rank providing a number of spells, selected by the priest. But Glorantha will probably be run closer to the book.)

That's all for tonight. Stay tuned for more observations and ideas.

 

[Exubae]

Thoughts on-

Lore (Specific Theology) for divine magic

I suppose it follows heroquest's lead where Divine magic are more like the feats of your god, and casting divine magic is tied to re-enacting or bringing to mind the situation the feat was used by the deity.

I agree this brushes over any faith the character may have in said god, but faith is more of personality traits than skills, start adding personality traits then you start straight jacketing the players.

I'd like to see cults developed with more detail. I was impressed with the original Runequest which required stating why a cult existed and why it continues to exist.

Don't think you'll get any arguments on that point. I find the cult short descriptions pretty useless for player character, mainly because you don't get the feel of the cult in the relevant society.

Divine magic should be acquired by the sacrifice of hero points rather than the sacrifice of silver pieces.

I prefer the RQ3 method of gaining divine magic, but Hero points are probably a better mechanism instead of POW.
However MRQ's character growth rate is slower that RQ3's so this may skew character development a little.

House rule- Divine Point Pool
W'eve been using an external pool of sacrificed POW that may be used to cast any of the Divine spells presented by the cult.
As spells are cast the points used to fuel them become unusable and require the obligatory trip to the temple to refresh.
Any non-priest/Lord loses the points to cast a divine magic spell permently if they fail their theology roll.

I think I might switch it to being Hero points based instead.
With the following Mods:
Divine Point Pool - is treated as a characteristic for increase purposes.
Non-Priest/Non-Lord's Divine Point Pool may not exceed their POW/2.
Scrap the loss of points by failed rolls.
Allow characters to augment Divine intervention with points from Divine Point Pool.

 

[Utgardloki]

I was thinking about this, and came to the conclusion that what divine magic really needs to be is a system by which different gods/pantheons/worlds can establish rules for use of divine magic. What may work on Glorantha may not work in the Iron Kingdoms or Runequest Modern. However, a few broad principles can be defined.

1. Divine magic is a certain kind of magic. It is defined as spells granted to you by your deity. You do not need to learn these spells, you just need to believe in them. And your deity has to trust you with them.

2. Different worlds may have different rules for gaining divine magic spells. For example:

Glorantha casters need to go to or establish a holy site (which may be a temporarily consecreted area) and pray for one day per magnitude of the spell desired, sacrificing 1 Hero Point per magnitude of the desired spells.

Iron Kingdoms casters need to establish a relationship with their deity. They do this by completing tasks for their deity (which differs for each deity) and sacrificing hero points. The divine spells granted to a caster depend on the caster's rank.

Runequest Modern casters need the True Faith heroic advantage to cast divine spells. It requires 16 Hero Points to buy the True Faith advantage. The spells granted to the character are totally up to the decision of the character's patron deity.

3. Depending on the world setting, divine magic may be fueled by Magic Points, by Hero Points, or may be granted with the requisite power on a one-use basis. Or some other method may be granted to fuel divine magic:

In the Iron Kingdoms, divine casters are given a budget of how many magnitudes of divine spells they may cast per day. They may also be restricted on certain spells, such as no more than x magnitude of healing.

In Glorantha, divine casters cast their spells as one-time spells, since each spell is already paid for with the sacrifice of their Hero Points when they aquired it.

In Runequest Modern, divine casters pay for their spells with hero points as they cast them.

4. Divine spellcasting makes use of a new skill called Faith (default bonus: CHA + POW). A Faith roll is required the first time a spell is used "for real". Once a spell is successfully used "for real", no further rolls are needed to cast that spell, although a Faith roll may be needed for an opposed roll. Other contests may also call for a Faith roll. For the character, Faith does not represent so much having knowledge as it represents really believing knowledge, even when it seems to contradict one's "common sense".

 

[Utgardloki]

1. I don't know what this means, at the bottom of page 10: "A character may not store the same Divine Magic spell twice, even if they are of differing Magnitudes." The only way I can read it, is that it is impossible for a divine spellcaster to be able to cast a divine spell (e.g. Breath Water) twice in one preparation period. This seems to be unnecessarily limitting.

(Way back in a D&D campaign, I had a chaotic neutral deity who forbade her clerics from preparing the same spell twice in one day -- but this rule only applied to worshippers of one deity. I don't see a reason for a general restriction.)

2. I also do not like the rule on page 11 that "whenever a spell is cast using Divine Magic, there will always be a sight and sound that nearby creatures can detect, be it a flash of light, a crack of thunder or a shimmering in the air." Sometimes I prefer magic without such a "comic book" atmosphere. I plan to ignore this rule, as a general rule.

3. "Casting a Divine Magic spell requires a specific Lore (Specific Theology) test." As noted previously, my opinion is that once a Faith check to master the spell is successful, no further rolls are needed for that spell, except as needed to resolve opposed skill contests.

4. I think a critical success on a casting of Divine Magic would provide a free Improvement Roll for that character's Faith skill. There should be a limit to keep those with uber-high Faith from gaining lots of free Improvement Rolls -- perhaps limit this bonus to once a month, and only if the character's Faith is less than or equal to 5xPOW.

5. A fumble on a casting of a divine spell may have effects depending on the theology of the deity granting the spell. Perhaps there is some sin that must be atoned for.

6. I am not sure if I like giving divine spellcasters the option to overpower their spells with their own arcane power. Perhaps this works on Glorantha, and maybe even the Iron Kingdoms, but I don't see it work in general.

7. In general, there seem to be a lot of restrictions on Divine Magic, such as not allowing a spell to be "topped off". I don't see why every deity of every world should be limited in these ways.

8. Permanent spells. One option that comes to mind with divine magic is to use the opportunity to pray in a consecrated temple and sacrifice hero points for a permanent divine spell. A permanent divine spell would require the sacrifice of Hero Points equal to 10 times the magnitude, essentially making these like legendary abilities. (Those desiring a permanent spell may also be required to meet other requirements as well.)

A taboo may also be placed on the recipient. (E.g. Sampson gains a benefit of increased strength, but is forbidden to cut his hair or allow his hair to be cut.) If the taboo is broken, the spell is permanently removed.

A permanent spell affects the recipient permanently. It can not be dismissed by either the target of the spell or the priest who cast it, but it can be dispelled as if its magnitude were 3 times the normal magnitude for the spell. The deity may also remove the spell at his will, and grant it back.

A permanent spell may also have a slightly altered effect from the standard description. Usually, there will be some weakness in the spell. For example, the Absorption spell, if made permanent, might not work against a particular type of spell, such as lightning (if the Absorption spell was granted by a sea deity, for example).

Normally, any disadvantages from a spell still apply if the spell is made permanent. Thus, the recipient of a permanent Absorption spell can not benefit from Reflection, Shield, or Spirit Block spells.

A recipient can only benefit from a limited number of permanent spells. One rule that was introduced long ago in D&D would limit a recipient to three permanent spells -- one affecting his body, one affecting his mind, and one affecting his spirit.

And thus are the thoughts of Utgardloki.

 

[Exubae]

2. I also do not like the rule on page 11 that "whenever a spell is cast using Divine Magic, there will always be a sight and sound that nearby creatures can detect, be it a flash of light, a crack of thunder or a shimmering in the air." Sometimes I prefer magic without such a "comic book" atmosphere. I plan to ignore this rule, as a general rule.

Kind of agree, Gods like Lanbril or the Sandles of Darkness aren't going act against their 'sneaky' natures so for these whizz bangs etc. are not going to be forced on the priest... but it it really depends on the god...

6. I am not sure if I like giving divine spellcasters the option to overpower their spells with their own arcane power. Perhaps this works on Glorantha, and maybe even the Iron Kingdoms, but I don't see it work in general.

If they've any mps to overpower the spell... Be better to use 'divine points' ie points already devoted to the deity to perform this action.

 

[weasel_fierce]

1. I don't know what this means, at the bottom of page 10: "A character may not store the same Divine Magic spell twice, even if they are of differing Magnitudes." The only way I can read it, is that it is impossible for a divine spellcaster to be able to cast a divine spell (e.g. Breath Water) twice in one preparation period. This seems to be unnecessarily limitting.

I wasnt sure how this works with the idea that you can cast part of a spells magnitude only. What I figured is that it just means you cant "top off" a spell later. If you learn 10 magnitudes of a spell, you have to blow them all before you can refill

 

[simonh]

1. Divine magic is a certain kind of magic. It is defined as spells granted to you by your deity. You do not need to learn these spells, you just need to believe in them. And your deity has to trust you with them.

This goes along with you're point about gods and divine magic working differently in different worlds. We know the gods in Glorantha can't make decisions about their intervention in the middle world like this, but in other worlds this may be different.

 

[Utgardloki]

I think I'm going to have to start another thread once I get through the divine magic section, since I have so many thoughts on divine magic.

With regard to gaining divine spells, I suppose it could work the way it does in D&D, with cleric-type characters choosing from a menu of available spells. However, it might be more common for the deity to grant the spell to his worshippers.

 

[weasel_fierce]

well, this is such a broad topic that its hard to do much else than just come up with lists of "it could work like this", since its soo dependent on the game setting. The rules, as presented, assume Glorantha.

I'd love to see more alternatives out there though. Maybe its something we will see eventually

 

[Utgardloki]

Divine Magic

I only have one more comment on the Divine Magic section.

The description for the Madness spell says "Madness has no effect on .. targets that are currently under the effect of a Madness spell." I wonder if this means that Congressmen and members of Parliament are immune to this spell.

Sorcery

I like the rules as they are set out for sorcery, although as usual I'll have to make a number of adjustments, especially to make this work out with my other house rules.

One change will be to call this "dynamic sorcery" because a "sorcerer" can be a character who casts any type of magic. For example, a sorcerer in my Iron Kingdoms conversion would be a runecaster who is granted access to one of more runes without having to actually possess a rune, but otherwise casts spells just as a runecaster does.

But using the term "dynamic sorcery" is just a way to keep from totally confusing my players.

The Rune of Harmony

Just a thought: it would be cool to have a set of cards with these runes.

Enchantments

This looks okay. I'll probably want to make tweaks if I ever have to consider how these items are actually made.

One thing I'll probably want to do is create a form of ranking magic items, from basic ones (such as simply making a spell permanent on an iem), complex (enchanting an item with more complicated enchantments), and artifact level (such as the "Helm of Recapitation" described in an earlier thread.)

The Spirit World

This looks like a good basic description of how spirits work in Runequest. This does make me think that I'll need to define what happens after death in the Runequest world. My thought is that the deceased spends a period of time as a spirit until a guide such as an angel or a valkyrie comes along to guide the spirit to her destination. This also implies that I will need to define heavens and hells in the Gloranthaverse -- perhaps these can be placed among the stars.

My basic concept is that there would be "the Gloranthaverse", "the Spirit World", and "the Afterlife".

Reputation

In an earlier thread, I already defined Reputation and Honor as "pseudo-skills". I will continue to use this system (and someday write it up for the wiki). The biggest advantage of my system, IMHO, is the way that pseudo-skills can use the same mechanisms for skills, including opposed rolls, etc. It also removes the need for a page full of reputation modifiers.

 

[simonh]

House rule- Divine Point Pool

All you're thoughts on this are interesting. Personally I'd probably stick with the published rules just for simplicity's sake, but I'd be very interested to see what rules you finally settle on.

 

[soltakss]

1. I don't know what this means, at the bottom of page 10: "A character may not store the same Divine Magic spell twice, even if they are of differing Magnitudes." The only way I can read it, is that it is impossible for a divine spellcaster to be able to cast a divine spell (e.g. Breath Water) twice in one preparation period. This seems to be unnecessarily limitting.

I think this means you can't have Shield 4 and then get another Shield 2. What you have to do is to get rid of the Shield 4, presumably by casting it, and then get Shield 6 all in one go. This also means that you have paid for the spell twice, in effect, so it's a stealth tax.

2. I also do not like the rule on page 11 that "whenever a spell is cast using Divine Magic, there will always be a sight and sound that nearby creatures can detect, be it a flash of light, a crack of thunder or a shimmering in the air." Sometimes I prefer magic without such a "comic book" atmosphere. I plan to ignore this rule, as a general rule.

I'd generally say that it depends on the spell. Some spells are designed to be stealthy and tricky, there's not much point casting the Lie spell if everyone knows you cast it. Most Crackle-Zap spells have a Crackle and a Zap and it's fairly obvious who has cast it. Casting spells on yourself should be fairly hard to spot, but you'd be lit up like a Christmas Tree under any magical sight spells.

3. "Casting a Divine Magic spell requires a specific Lore (Specific Theology) test." As noted previously, my opinion is that once a Faith check to master the spell is successful, no further rolls are needed for that spell, except as needed to resolve opposed skill contests.

I'd ignore this completely, personally, as I like spells to be easily cast. You have a chance of gaining the spell so casting it automatically seems fair to me. I also scrapped the 100-ENC cast chance for Divine Magic in RQ3.

4. I think a critical success on a casting of Divine Magic would provide a free Improvement Roll for that character's Faith skill. There should be a limit to keep those with uber-high Faith from gaining lots of free Improvement Rolls -- perhaps limit this bonus to once a month, and only if the character's Faith is less than or equal to 5xPOW.

I can't see the reason for this. Using the skill to cast a spell should allow you to try and increase it, but other skills don't have an automatic increase on a critical so why should Faith/Specific Theology?

6. I am not sure if I like giving divine spellcasters the option to overpower their spells with their own arcane power. Perhaps this works on Glorantha, and maybe even the Iron Kingdoms, but I don't see it work in general.

This makes things more playable, instead of forcing spellcasters to dispel/dismiss their spells before casting other spells.

7. In general, there seem to be a lot of restrictions on Divine Magic, such as not allowing a spell to be "topped off". I don't see why every deity of every world should be limited in these ways.

It's not a deity specific thing but a general limitation on Divine Magic,. As I am generally against limitations of this nature, I'd ignore them. I'd allow 20 point spells without question rather than limiting people to 8 magnitude.

8. Permanent spells. One option that comes to mind with divine magic is to use the opportunity to pray in a consecrated temple and sacrifice hero points for a permanent divine spell. A permanent divine spell would require the sacrifice of Hero Points equal to 10 times the magnitude, essentially making these like legendary abilities. (Those desiring a permanent spell may also be required to meet other requirements as well.)

Why? POW sacrifice is as good a way as any. Oh, I see, you're sacrificing Hero Points to gain a spell effect permanently, such as a permanent Shield 1 spell for 10 Hero Points. I'd just make this an Enchantment or the result of a HeroQuest, or a Gift or something similar. It's a nice idea, though.

A recipient can only benefit from a limited number of permanent spells. One rule that was introduced long ago in D&D would limit a recipient to three permanent spells -- one affecting his body, one affecting his mind, and one affecting his spirit.

As I don't like that kind of restriction, I wouldn't use it.

 

[soltakss]

House rule- Divine Point Pool

All you're thoughts on this are interesting. Personally I'd probably stick with the published rules just for simplicity's sake, but I'd be very interested to see what rules you finally settle on.

The published rules severely limit Divine Magicians to their POW in spells, which is at odds with the powerful Priests in earlier versions of RQ.

The Divine Point Pool mechanism evens things up again.

 

[soltakss]

The Spirit World

This looks like a good basic description of how spirits work in Runequest.

Except that Spirit Combat is absolutely rubbish.

 

[Rurik]

The Spirit World

This looks like a good basic description of how spirits work in Runequest.

Except that Spirit Combat is absolutely rubbish.

I did notice that if you look in the RQ3 Monsters book under Wraith you will see they are fought pretty much exactly like spirit combat is resolved in MRQ.

When they did away with the resistance table (and hence POW vs POW struggles) they needed to come up with an alternative. It seems they just adapted an obscure form of spirit combat from RQ3 (Wraith combat).

I find in the MRQ spirit combat rules unbalanced. Spirit Bane on a Great Axe is just silly - the spirit will be doing from 1(average) to 1d6(pretty powerful spirit) while a Spirit Bane greataxe is 2d6+2+DB+any bladesharp, etc. Good luck spirit.

I have been mulling a way of replicating old school spirit combat in MRQ. I haven't put it through any rigorous testing like I did mundane combat, and If It develops into something I like I'll post it. Since that might take a while I will list my unfinished thoughts here:

At the simplest give characters a Spirit Point stat like hit points, but based on POW (or avg. of POW+CHA), just like HP. Spirit Points would not be reduced by dedicated POW.

Spirit Combat is a series of opposed persistence tests (am also considering making Spirit Combat skill of it's own - so that shaman types would be better than rune magic types who don't regularly combat spirits). The winner inflicts damage to the loser.

Damage could be based on a DB calculated the same as for spirits, or maybe based on the Persistence (or Spirit Combat) skill.

Another idea is to give a whole set of Spirit Stats, calculating DB, CA, SR, and HP just like for spirits, and these would be used while on the spirit plane. Obviously stats like CA, SR, and MOV would only apply when a character is able to project himself to the spirit plane.

Spirit bane would become a variable spirit version of Bladesharp.

Just some thoughts. If I develop them into something concrete I'll post them. I am also wary of fully implementing anything before the Shaman rules in COG2 are published.

As a short stopgap measure I think Spirit Bane will become a progressive spell, and the damage done will be based on the magnitude (1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d8, 2d10, etc...)

 

[Utgardloki]

The Spirit World

This looks like a good basic description of how spirits work in Runequest.

Except that Spirit Combat is absolutely rubbish.

I'll have to give the Spirit section of the book another, more careful review then. With Thanksgiving coming up, I'm just skimming pages at this point.

The Runequest Companion certainly looks impressive. I wish this stuff could have been included with the original rulebook for 30 dollars, instead of being two 25 dollar books. While I've had numerous comments on the Divine Magic section, it does provide a good basis for which I can implement DM in my own settings. The details on travel and cities should also be useful in my campaigns.

As for the Spirit plane, I was thinking that there probably needs to be more definition of this aspect of the universe. I am thinking that the Spirit Plane could be a nexus between the "normal" world, the "afterlife", the "godplane", and an infinite number of planes that work together to define each rune. The difference between my conception and the D&D cosmology is that each plane is actually a duplicate of the physical Gloranthaverse, but with its own metaphysics layered on.

A corollary of this thinking is that runecasting skills become essential for getting around in the spirit plane.

If I ever do a Gloranthaverse campaign, I'll definitely have to work such considerations into the setting. In this vein, I offer the following magic item for consideration:

Mirror of the Spirit Plane This mirror has two powers. One is to reflect the spirit plane, so that those viewing into the mirror can see any spirits that would be reflected by the mirror, and can also see their own spiritual aura, and the spiritual aura of any other physical creatures reflected by the mirror.

The second power is to be able to pass through the mirror into the spirit plane. Spirits can only pass through the mirror into the physical plane if there is a suitable body in contact with the mirror that the spirit can possess, such as a doll. A spirit can inhabit any physical object in contact with the mirror, but can only animate moving parts provided by this object. Thus a spirit that inhabited a rope could animate the rope to crawl along the ground like a snake, but a spirit that inhabited a rock would find the activity kind of worthless. (Or worse than worthless, if the rock was then moved away from the mirror, trapping the spirit in the rock.)

 

[soltakss]

The Spirit World

This looks like a good basic description of how spirits work in Runequest.

Except that Spirit Combat is absolutely rubbish.

I did notice that if you look in the RQ3 Monsters book under Wraith you will see they are fought pretty much exactly like spirit combat is resolved in MRQ.

Yep, Wraiths had a very unusual form of Spirit Combat where they had an initial Whallop that could kill you by attacking a characteristic and potentially reducing it to 0, but if that failed they could be hacked apart with a Fireblade or other magically-enhanced weapon.

But, and this is the important thing, nothing else did. RQ had a fairly mature Spirit Combat system, it had its flaws and I used a different one, but spirits were dangerous and not everyone could fight them. Even as Rune Lords and Rune Priests, we often used to run away from spirits, unless we had Spirit Block to throw around.

Nowadays, anyone can hack a spirit up and the Spirit Bane spell just means that spirits stand no chance at all. OK, not everyone will have it but against a spirit, I'd cast the biggest Bladesharp/Bludgeon/Ironhand spell I could and start hacking away at it. In fact, two people can hack away at a single spirit.

When they did away with the resistance table (and hence POW vs POW struggles) they needed to come up with an alternative. It seems they just adapted an obscure form of spirit combat from RQ3 (Wraith combat).

It would have been better to use the Spirit Damage Bonus based on POW and CHA, have a Spirit Combat skill and use that as normal combat with damage coming off Magic Points. Almost compatible with RQ2/3, gives Spirit specialists an edge, makes Spirits dangerous again and stops everyone being able to smash spirits.

I find in the MRQ spirit combat rules unbalanced. Spirit Bane on a Great Axe is just silly - the spirit will be doing from 1(average) to 1d6(pretty powerful spirit) while a Spirit Bane greataxe is 2d6+2+DB+any bladesharp, etc. Good luck spirit.

Exactly, it's almost as if someone thought "Wow, spirits are dangerrous in RQ3, let's even things up a bit" and didn't think through the consequences.

There was an article in an old Wyrms Footnotes that gave a similar way of beating up on spirits and we discounted it immediately as not having any flavour and being too easy to defeat spirits.

I have been mulling a way of replicating old school spirit combat in MRQ. I haven't put it through any rigorous testing like I did mundane combat, and If It develops into something I like I'll post it. Since that might take a while I will list my unfinished thoughts here:

At the simplest give characters a Spirit Point stat like hit points, but based on POW (or avg. of POW+CHA), just like HP. Spirit Points would not be reduced by dedicated POW.

Spirit Combat is a series of opposed persistence tests (am also considering making Spirit Combat skill of it's own - so that shaman types would be better than rune magic types who don't regularly combat spirits). The winner inflicts damage to the loser.

Damage could be based on a DB calculated the same as for spirits, or maybe based on the Persistence (or Spirit Combat) skill.

Another idea is to give a whole set of Spirit Stats, calculating DB, CA, SR, and HP just like for spirits, and these would be used while on the spirit plane. Obviously stats like CA, SR, and MOV would only apply when a character is able to project himself to the spirit plane.

Spirit bane would become a variable spirit version of Bladesharp.

Sounds fine.

Just some thoughts. If I develop them into something concrete I'll post them. I am also wary of fully implementing anything before the Shaman rules in COG2 are published.

That's the problem, isn't it? The Shamanism rules might make everything clear and sort it all out for Glorantha, in which case why House Rule things now?

As a short stopgap measure I think Spirit Bane will become a progressive spell, and the damage done will be based on the magnitude (1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d8, 2d10, etc...)

Making Spirit Bane/Spirit Shield the spirit equivalent of Bladesharp/Protection. Makes sense.

 

[Utgardloki]

Thinking about the spirit plane and how I see it as applying to the Gloranthaverse, I think I'd have spirit combat be heavily based on magic. Spirits are essentially throwing magic around, or else flailing around relatively ineffectively. So for a spirit without magic, a spirit bane would be a big problem.

I've been thinking of making a new skill, Magic Resistance, in order to prevent overusing Persistence. My idea is that Persistence applies to efforts of will, such as resisting an Emotion effect, but to resist a spirit pulling you apart, a Magic Resistance skill roll would be used.

I'm thinking that in the spirit plane, rune magic and sorcery can be combined in a way that they can not be combined on the physical plane. Perhaps Glorantha sorcerery works in part by reaching into the spirit plane, assembling the spell there, and bringing the spell back into the physical plane. This would imply tying spirits and sorcery together in an interesting way.

Another question is whether to allow spirits to physically attack other spirits? I've seen stories illustrated that imply spirits can physically attack each other; in fact in one story a new spirit uses as an advantage that he was trained in boxing and his spirit opponents were not used to facing an enemy that could actually hit them.

One could also imagine "spirit gloves" that would enable someone on the physical plane to beat up spirits -- I think a similar item is already described in the D20 Ghostwalk setting.

Perhaps in the spirit plane, a person's STR = her POW, her DEX = her INT, and her CON = her POW. This could be interesting for a party that travels to the spirit plane, although it kind of gyps the high-strength low-int warrior type.

I guess I wouldn't mind if another word for a spirit without recourse to magic spells would be "toast".

 

[Rurik]

It would have been better to use the Spirit Damage Bonus based on POW and CHA, have a Spirit Combat skill and use that as normal combat with damage coming off Magic Points. Almost compatible with RQ2/3, gives Spirit specialists an edge, makes Spirits dangerous again and stops everyone being able to smash spirits.

The problem with using MP is that divine magic users will be at a great disadvantage, as they will have very few 'personal' MP. This is not so big a deal in MRQ as written as nothing really attacks your personal MP, but if we use MP for spirit combat they are at a great disadvantage. That was kind of the reasoning behind a separate Spirit Hit Point stat.

I suppose in thinking about it we could reduce Dedicated Pow to being only like the old Free Int - it would not reduce MP or Skills. Effectively the rule would say: You can only memorize as many points of Divine Magic as your POW stat. This would allow the use of MP in spirit combat without hurting Divine spell casters and also eliminate one of the biggest problems with Dedicated POW as written - the need to recalculate all your POW based skills every time you learn or cast a Divine spell to reflect the change in your effective POW.

 

[Rurik]

I've been thinking of making a new skill, Magic Resistance, in order to prevent overusing Persistence. My idea is that Persistence applies to efforts of will, such as resisting an Emotion effect, but to resist a spirit pulling you apart, a Magic Resistance skill roll would be used.

That is a similar concept to the Spirit Combat skill I mentioned. It would need to be a basic skill (or else people without it would be completely unable to resist spirit attacks) based on either POW or POW+CHA. Spirit Combat would also be used when attacking spirits (to bind them, etc) as well as resisteing spirit attacks.

I'm thinking that in the spirit plane, rune magic and sorcery can be combined in a way that they can not be combined on the physical plane. Perhaps Glorantha sorcerery works in part by reaching into the spirit plane, assembling the spell there, and bringing the spell back into the physical plane. This would imply tying spirits and sorcery together in an interesting way.

The different Planes (Spirit, Hero, God) are pretty well defined in glorantha, as are the magic types and how they work. There is a bit on the planes in GtSA, I expect more in MoG and the CoGs.

Basically the sources of magic are as follows:

Rune Magic: Harnessing the power inherent to Runes.
Divine Magic: Straight from the Gods baby!
Shamanism/Spirit Magic: From the spirit plane, working with spirits.
Common Magic: Used by farmers, midwives, etc - not really of interest to adventurers - is minor harnessing of the magical energy of the world to aid in everyday tasks.
Sorcery: Manipulating the magical forces inherent to the world to do what you want by force of will.

Note that for the most part all forms of magic other than Sorcery involve working with the magical aspects of the world, while sorcery involves a more hostile approach of forcing these energies to do your bidding. In Glorantha most sorcerers are Malkioni, who justify this with their beleif in the Invisble God - to them all other gods are false gods, just powerful spirits, and their one true God made the world and everything in it (and all the planes), so they are justified in f**king with it all, being the faithful and all.