Kenrick Dargoth
Mongoose
yeap but railgun has low rof and hell of a punch it's not 20" 2d6 squad Auto!
USMC vs MI vs ARACHNIDS
- Thread starter Cliff
- Start date
the muzzle flash thing is bit weird, i admit, but the sounds the guns make in the cgi totally match the idea of a railgun.
@the vulcan
its only one gun opposed to 4 though 4guns are superior to 1, right?
no honestly, i'm not an expert so i don't know if the vulcans firepower is effectively higher than that of other flaktanks
@poko
well there were times, the good old days, where shuriken catapults had 2rapid fire dice
but let's not start another discussion about how the EE has ruined it's games ^^
@the vulcan
its only one gun opposed to 4 though 4guns are superior to 1, right?
no honestly, i'm not an expert so i don't know if the vulcans firepower is effectively higher than that of other flaktanks
@poko
well there were times, the good old days, where shuriken catapults had 2rapid fire dice
but let's not start another discussion about how the EE has ruined it's games ^^
Kenrick Dargoth
Mongoose
well we can do but it would be mounted on a ship 
like laser guns (to destroy missiles)
We can't store such amounts of energy and we probably will never be able to
like laser guns (to destroy missiles)We can't store such amounts of energy and we probably will never be able to
DoomOnYou72
Mongoose
Storage is still one of the issues. Working models have been tested on AFVs. The problem is that between batteries and capacitors your looking at a refridgerator sized component. Then you still have EMI and thermal transferance to deal with. Recharge time is also an issue. Regardless from an economic point of view why bother? Bullets (in the conventional sense) will be around for along time to come. Why spend thousands if not hundreds of thousands when a $1.06 5.56mm or 6.5mm (the new trend) round will kill you just as dead. :wink: Look at Germany in WWII if you want to see what over engineering and overly complicated and expensive equipment can cost you (yes I am aware of other factors in their defeat but one of the primary reasons was economical in the end). For that to change you need to come up with an inexpensive alternative, provide logistical support (plenty ofspares and parts), take a beating, and then it needs to be able to be maintained in the field by an average Joe. But then again this is still just a game so go out and have your little plastic guy kill plastic bugs with his plastic assault rifle :lol:
Kenrick Dargoth
Mongoose
"No more than 20(or less I don't remember)? computers will ever be neded"Poko said:
in scale of world some guy that helped to invent computer...
The Germans kicked everybodys ass though when they're equipment worked and they had leaders who knew how to utilise the ridicoulus amount of tank variants they produced.
Well the railgun is mostly a perspective for a military that has no problems in generating energy, for example one who managed to develop fusion technology...ooooor the sst federation, which has access to nuclear reactors (which take relatively little ressources) but also geothermic and even fusion generators.
So it'll probably be much more economic to use railguns then conventional gunpowder, because they're projectiles would be easier and cheaper to manufacture, energys not an issue, and the improved penetration will definately come in handy against uknown species in space.
Oh and at the punch, in the rpg a Morita has good chances to kill an Powersuited Trooper with a single shot.
The reason why bugs are so hrad to kill is probably not their carapace (in most cases) but their mass and their ability to fight on with 75% of their limbs lost.
Well the railgun is mostly a perspective for a military that has no problems in generating energy, for example one who managed to develop fusion technology...ooooor the sst federation, which has access to nuclear reactors (which take relatively little ressources) but also geothermic and even fusion generators.
So it'll probably be much more economic to use railguns then conventional gunpowder, because they're projectiles would be easier and cheaper to manufacture, energys not an issue, and the improved penetration will definately come in handy against uknown species in space.
Oh and at the punch, in the rpg a Morita has good chances to kill an Powersuited Trooper with a single shot.
The reason why bugs are so hrad to kill is probably not their carapace (in most cases) but their mass and their ability to fight on with 75% of their limbs lost.
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
There are two problems there; how does the front line trooper store his energy? For a conventional weapon, it's in the gunpowder. For a gauss weapon- I wonder what sort of explosion you get if you shoot one of the power cells, or for that matter cook it off with a tanker spit.
Something like a fuel cell, that generates power and when you break it stops working, could do, but batteries- there are issues now, with laptop batteries exploding; it's not the technology that's at fault, it's the economics deciding how much of the technology actually gets applied to the problem. You have how many million soldiers to equip across the Federation, you think there aren't going to be corners cut here and there?
Also, superior technology may make increased safety possible, but it also makes it much more necessary, and the consequences of unsafety much worse. Think about carrying an advanced-tech battery for your gauss weapon with the energy equivalent of thirty kilos of TNT stored in it.
The time to stop cutting corners is when you start to lose more than you gain by it, like the confidence of the soldiers in the government that sends them out part- equipped to fight, and the people's confidence in the government that gets their relatives in the military killed. In the book, that happened very early on, with Operation Bughouse; "I am not criticising General Diennes. I don't know whether it's true that he demanded more troops and more support and allowed himself to be overruled by the Sky Marshal-In-Chief- or not. ... What I do know is that the General dropped with us and led us on the ground and, when the situation became impossible, he personally led the diversionary attack that allowed quite a few of us (including me) to be retrieved- and, in so doing, bought his farm."
To me, that is the sound of a mistake being made, paid for, and learned from. Henlein's federation working out not to scrimp.
Compare that with the similarly named character in Verhoeven's version; in the movie, the Federation seems to have enough political control of it's civilians to keep on making and paying for that sort of goof for a very long time before common sense sinks in.
Anyway, the other problem; how close to the front do you generate your energy, and what from? Starships pretty much have to have nuclear power, they need the energy. For long duration planetary stays, rig a generator? Personally, I would not trust the movie's safety- oblivious version of Carmen Ibanez with any more energetic hydrogen application than running a bath.
Something like a fuel cell, that generates power and when you break it stops working, could do, but batteries- there are issues now, with laptop batteries exploding; it's not the technology that's at fault, it's the economics deciding how much of the technology actually gets applied to the problem. You have how many million soldiers to equip across the Federation, you think there aren't going to be corners cut here and there?
Also, superior technology may make increased safety possible, but it also makes it much more necessary, and the consequences of unsafety much worse. Think about carrying an advanced-tech battery for your gauss weapon with the energy equivalent of thirty kilos of TNT stored in it.
The time to stop cutting corners is when you start to lose more than you gain by it, like the confidence of the soldiers in the government that sends them out part- equipped to fight, and the people's confidence in the government that gets their relatives in the military killed. In the book, that happened very early on, with Operation Bughouse; "I am not criticising General Diennes. I don't know whether it's true that he demanded more troops and more support and allowed himself to be overruled by the Sky Marshal-In-Chief- or not. ... What I do know is that the General dropped with us and led us on the ground and, when the situation became impossible, he personally led the diversionary attack that allowed quite a few of us (including me) to be retrieved- and, in so doing, bought his farm."
To me, that is the sound of a mistake being made, paid for, and learned from. Henlein's federation working out not to scrimp.
Compare that with the similarly named character in Verhoeven's version; in the movie, the Federation seems to have enough political control of it's civilians to keep on making and paying for that sort of goof for a very long time before common sense sinks in.
Anyway, the other problem; how close to the front do you generate your energy, and what from? Starships pretty much have to have nuclear power, they need the energy. For long duration planetary stays, rig a generator? Personally, I would not trust the movie's safety- oblivious version of Carmen Ibanez with any more energetic hydrogen application than running a bath.
Soulmage
Mongoose
Isn't the game based on the movie?
In that case the Moritas are certainly NOT gauss weapons. Not with all that brass flying out of the breech!
Actually though. . . I was watching the Discovery channel (or one of its contemporaries) a couple years ago, and we HAVE built a working gauss cannon.
They had a nice extremely slow-mo shot of the tungsten slug blasting through multiple layers of 12" thick armor plate. It was VERY impressive.
Only problem is right now, it takes a couple hours to charge up and the equipment is HUGE. That will get solved in time though. I know they're looking at gauss cannons as a solution on naval ships - which would certainly have the room for one, once they shrink and get a faster ROF. So that might be where we see the first one deployed.
Eventually, one might make it into something as small as a tank someday I hope. But there is NO WAY that a gauss weapon is ever going to be man-portable, unless we develop micro-miniaturized anti-matter reactors or something similarly exotic to power it. That's so far away from where we're standing right now though, that its no different than any other sci-fi out there right now. Might as well be talking about "singularity guns" that spontaneously create a momentary black hole in the enemy or something. About as likely at the moment. . .
In that case the Moritas are certainly NOT gauss weapons. Not with all that brass flying out of the breech!
Actually though. . . I was watching the Discovery channel (or one of its contemporaries) a couple years ago, and we HAVE built a working gauss cannon.
They had a nice extremely slow-mo shot of the tungsten slug blasting through multiple layers of 12" thick armor plate. It was VERY impressive.
Only problem is right now, it takes a couple hours to charge up and the equipment is HUGE. That will get solved in time though. I know they're looking at gauss cannons as a solution on naval ships - which would certainly have the room for one, once they shrink and get a faster ROF. So that might be where we see the first one deployed.
Eventually, one might make it into something as small as a tank someday I hope. But there is NO WAY that a gauss weapon is ever going to be man-portable, unless we develop micro-miniaturized anti-matter reactors or something similarly exotic to power it. That's so far away from where we're standing right now though, that its no different than any other sci-fi out there right now. Might as well be talking about "singularity guns" that spontaneously create a momentary black hole in the enemy or something. About as likely at the moment. . .
dyssnowman
Mongoose
Soulmage said:
Just skimming the topic and felt the need to comment.
The game draws a lot of its inspiration from the TV series, and they indicate in a few different episodes that the Morita is an energy weapon. Even so, I believe that in the game they are considered the more traditional gunpowder weapons.
in the SST move thyey are normal guns. the CG series has sketch that says laser/heavy machinegun, so it's not really clear(and there certainly is no brass fying,or i'v missed it altogether). the RPG, which i'd consider canon, since it's a fusion of all the sources, states that it's a railgun.
plus, we'r talking about TW-203, while the guns in movie were TW 201, an older version.
plus, we'r talking about TW-203, while the guns in movie were TW 201, an older version.
dyssnowman
Mongoose
The RPG is canon for this though I missed the part about them being railguns. Oopsy. 
:lol:
:lol:saying "they could've never developed that" ist the stupidest thing one can say in a discussion about scifi.
@slightly norse john
while its not explicitly stated in the rpg where the weapon draws its power from it IS mentioned though that the batterys powering power suits are highly unstable if they aren't stored correctly and can explode to a devastating effect.
on the term of generators, you should've read my post.
Someone who can build a fusion reactor to power a mobile chas will have no problems with putting generators in they're "front" camps, something thats needed anyway to refuel their suits all 8-9 hours.
@slightly norse john
while its not explicitly stated in the rpg where the weapon draws its power from it IS mentioned though that the batterys powering power suits are highly unstable if they aren't stored correctly and can explode to a devastating effect.
on the term of generators, you should've read my post.
Someone who can build a fusion reactor to power a mobile chas will have no problems with putting generators in they're "front" camps, something thats needed anyway to refuel their suits all 8-9 hours.
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
Building the things isn't the problem- the human quality of the operators is. Exo troopers, maybe, they get enough training to be trustworthy, but LAMI? You're going to issue half educated kids, most of whom probably can't spell 'deuterium' never mind work out what it does, play with fusion power?
Never mind the MI's nuclear weaponry, their nuclear accidents are starting to sound pretty frightening.
Best case- quite likely- fusion power looks as if it's going to be fairly failsafe, very difficult to start and very easy to stop, but it's still a wrecked generator. I'd call it an engineer's job, not line or supply.
Never mind the MI's nuclear weaponry, their nuclear accidents are starting to sound pretty frightening.
Best case- quite likely- fusion power looks as if it's going to be fairly failsafe, very difficult to start and very easy to stop, but it's still a wrecked generator. I'd call it an engineer's job, not line or supply.
a question-why introduce all sorts of wierd generators,be it plasma/fusion as the powersource for the morita?
i think it wouldn't be beyond the Fedtech to build superconductors/batteries/whatever small enough to fit into the mag.-this way the gun only needs a small battery for it's own functions(like the round counter etc.), and there is no problem with running out of power in a firefight-a fresh mag=fresh battery.
my guess would be that each battery would last for 2xrounds in ech mag, so it could be re-used in case of lack of supplies.
i think it wouldn't be beyond the Fedtech to build superconductors/batteries/whatever small enough to fit into the mag.-this way the gun only needs a small battery for it's own functions(like the round counter etc.), and there is no problem with running out of power in a firefight-a fresh mag=fresh battery.
my guess would be that each battery would last for 2xrounds in ech mag, so it could be re-used in case of lack of supplies.
Kenrick Dargoth
Mongoose
impasible without sf tech and remember sf <> since fantasy
Kenrick Dargoth
Mongoose
since fiction <> sience fantasy
fiction ~ passible
fantasy ~ magic
fiction ~ passible
fantasy ~ magic
