Using High Efficiency Batteries for Jump Drives

[Sigtrygg]

Use a LASH set up, the collector driven jump drive sits at the jump point, the cargo is moved by lighters.

It starts to look a lot like the Battletech way of doing things... jumpships and dropships.

 

[Condottiere]

We don't precharge the jump capacitors.

I'm not sure which tack the current edition takes, whether there's a power leak, or leaving the capacitors charged has the potential for a catastrophic release.

 

[AndrewW]

Wait a minute? The jump drives have their own capacitors. You can charge them up over time already. You do not need to run directly from the power plant. You can charge them up while heading out to 100D and then jump. Why use batteries when the jump drive already has capacitors?

The power plant on the X-Boat does not have the capacity to charge the capacitors on the jump drive, so the battery is used for that.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Ships with a power plant not capable of generating enough EPs for the jump drive and are therefore powered directly from batteries.

The x-boat for example:
"The jump drive is powered by the battery, which is recharged during refuelling operations by an express boat tender"

Does it have jump fuel? Yes.
Does it have a fusion power plant? Yes.

So, what exactly contradicts:

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

In MgT2 the jump drive needs some power, in this case 40 points of Power (supplied by the battery) AND a huge power surge from burning the jump fuel.

There is no contradiction.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That is your interpretation.

No, I'm just reading the text Mongoose has given us, reflecting 40 years of canon. None of it is my idea.

The rules say you need x amount of energy to power the jump drive.

The rules and the canonical ships show that this can come from batteries.

AND you need a large amount of jump fuel, to be burnt for power (or a collector).

The jump drive needs both.

 

[Sigtrygg]

No, I'm just reading the text Mongoose has given us, reflecting 40 years of canon. None of it is my idea.

Apparently if we are discussing MgT only MgT canon counts.

AND you need a large amount of jump fuel, to be burnt for power (or a collector).

Nowhere in the rules - core rule book or High Guard - is that stated.

If it is and I have missed it please show me where it is.

The jump drive needs both.

The x-boat is jump drive is powered by the batteries, it says so, in black and white. The power plant is for the ship systems.

The batteries can provide the EPs needed by the jump drive, the power plant can not, by the rules as they are written in the CRB and HG.

 

[Sigtrygg]

View attachment 4791

Does it have jump fuel? Yes.

For the jump bubble.

Does it have a fusion power plant? Yes.

For the ship systems.

So, what exactly contradicts:

Nothing, but that text is missing from my version of the CRB and HG. It also contradicts needing a hydrogen filled jump bubble.

In MgT2 the jump drive needs some power, in this case 40 points of Power (supplied by the battery) AND a huge power surge from burning the jump fuel.

Nowhere in the core rules or High Guard is that stated, if it is please show me.

There is no contradiction.

Yes there is with the rules as written.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Wait a minute? The jump drives have their own capacitors. You can charge them up over time already. You do not need to run directly from the power plant. You can charge them up while heading out to 100D and then jump. Why use batteries when the jump drive already has capacitors?

"Somehow" it has to be done quickly enough:

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

Which is basically the same as:

LBB2'81, p13:
The Engineering Section: Drives are installed in the engineering section. A non-starship must have a maneuver drive and a power plant. A starship must have a a jump drive and a power plant; a maneuver drive may also be installed, but is not required. In all cases, the power plant letter must equal or exceed either the maneuver drive letter or the jump drive letter, whichever is higher.

I.e. you must have a large enough PP.

 

[Arkathan]

Filling a jump bubble with hydrogen and quickly fusing several tons of hydrogen to generate power seems mutually exclusive.
You'd be filling the bubble with a mix of helium and "unburnt" (unfused) hydrogen.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Apparently if we are discussing MgT only MgT canon counts.

It's MgT2 canon, whether you like it or not:

MgT2 JTAS#2, "Jumpspace", p126:
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

It also contradicts needing a hydrogen filled jump bubble.

Where?

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

Some fuel is apparently used as coolant and expelled, resulting in a hydrogen-filled jump bubble.


Exactly nowhere is it stated that all or nearly all jump fuel is ejected.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Where?

Where it fails to mention ever needing a hydrogen filled bubble.
Instead it says you need a network of cables in the hull.
"Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship’s interior and the alien physical principles would make life impossible, operation of equipment unpredictable, and even the passage of time would be altered."

Some fuel is apparently used as coolant and expelled, resulting in a hydrogen-filled jump bubble.

"Apparently" - where does it actually state that in Marc's article? Or any other version of Traveller apart from T4 and now MgT?

Exactly nowhere is it stated that all or nearly all jump fuel is ejected.

So now it stays in the ship?

 

[Sigtrygg]

It's MgT2 canon, whether you like it or not:

You already know I put more weight on Marc's article than the work of other authors, especially when there is so much contradiction.

My point is that the article is not reflected in the rules as written, and the article provides no numbers so is just fluff.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Where it fails to mention ever needing a hydrogen filled bubble.

It does not say anything about filled bubbles, so there is no contradiction...

Instead it says you need a network of cables in the hull.

Yes, a part of the jump drive. Just as in MgT2:

MgT2 SOM, p87:
Once pressed, a series of events must occur to propel the ship into jumpspace so it can travel to its destination. This starts by activating the drive/shunt subsystem, including the jump drive emitters installed over the entire hull of the ship. The power plant then pushes a great amount of power through the lanthanum and grav modules in those emitters.

"Apparently" - where does it actually state that in Marc's article? Or any other version of Traveller apart from T4 and now MgT?

You can't use it as too cool the ship without ejecting it?

So now it stays in the ship?

The tanks are empty afterward, so apparently not.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You already know I put more weight on Marc's article than the work of other authors, especially when there is so much contradiction.

OK, so whats the problem with this part of Marc's article:

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by- products and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

My point is that the article is not reflected in the rules as written, and the article provides no numbers so is just fluff.

Well then this is just fluff without consequense:

Jump drives create a bubble of hyperspace by means of injecting high-energy exotic particles into an artificial singularity. The singularity is driven out of our universe, creating a tiny parallel universe that is then blown up like a balloon by injecting hydrogen into it. The jump bubble is folded around the ship, carrying it into a ship-sized pocket universe that collapses after about one week, bringing the ship back into normal space several light-years from its original position.

No numbers or specifics there.

Why do you put other fluff above Marc's article, reiterated in MgT2?

 

[Sigtrygg]

It does not say anything about filled bubbles, so there is no contradiction...

The failure to mention something of such importance...

Yes, a part of the jump drive. Just as in MgT2:

I have less and less faith in the current SOM, it is a great piece of work, but it is written for T5 not MgT rules.

You can't use it as too cool the ship without ejecting it?

Is refrigerant ejected from your refrigerator?

The tanks are empty afterward, so apparently not.

So all the fuel goes somewhere, where would that be? Into empty space pre-jump? Into a mystical magical bubble within hyperspace? Into hyperspace itself? Vented into normal space when you emerge?

 

[Sigtrygg]

OK, so whats the problem with this part of Marc's article:

It fails to mention that batteries can provide the necessary energy.

Well then this is just fluff without consequense:

Except it is in the core rule book, not a book that not everyone owns let alone references.

No numbers or specifics there.

The numbers are there, they just are not explained until High Guard, another core rule book

Why do you put other fluff above Marc's article, reiterated in MgT2?

The core rule book is the core rule book.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

It fails to mention that batteries can provide the necessary energy.

It does not say either way, so no contradiction.

The core rule book is the core rule book.

HG isn't the Core book, it's not a book that not everyone owns let alone references?

 

[Sigtrygg]

It does not say either way, so no contradiction.

That in itself is a sufficient difference to warrant the term contradiction.

HG isn't the Core book, it's not a book that not everyone owns let alone references?

HG is classed as one of the Traveller core rulebooks.
A lot more people interested in building and operating ships are likely to have HG rather than JTAS..

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That in itself is a sufficient difference to warrant the term contradiction.

Oh, joy, we are debating the definition of words again...

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/contradiction

the fact of something being the complete opposite of something else or very different from something else, so that one of them must be wrong:

A and not A is a contradiction.
A and B (but does not mention A) is not a contradiction.

If one source says hydrogen-filled bubble, but another source says absolutely empty bubble, that is a contradiction.
If one source says hydrogen-filled bubble, and another source says Collectors collects particles, that is not a contradiction.

HG is classed as one of the Traveller core rulebooks.
A lot more people interested in building and operating ships are likely to have HG rather than JTAS..

Both define canon, you can't pick and choose.
Well, of course you can, but then it's a house-rule.