US Decking Color?

Hi all! I am about to paint a few US ships and need some help from the experts. What color was the decking on the following ships?

Essex Class Carrier
Yorktown Class Carrier
Iowa BB

Most pictures show them in a blue grey color but I have seen a few with the wood colored decking…is either correct? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Curtis
 
hi

this link should help you out for the US fleet

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/camouflage_database.htm

the link below is the next page up with other details on

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm
 
The Ship camoflage link will answer all your questions.

In general carrier flight decks were left unpainted. It seems, for a period in 1944, that the carriers used a dazzle pattern (the 30 series meansures) which may have called for painted decks. It looks like 1945 saw a return to unpainted flight decks.

The battleship decks would have been deck blue throughout, though some ships had a dazzle patttern camo job that would have the decks painted specific colors.
 
After 1943 when the Essex appeared on the Scene, U.S Flight decks were painted"Flight Deck Grey" with the white lines on the deck. As Bickley says, decks on Battleships, Cruisers and Destroyers were Deck Blue. For the flight deck color, look under Testors Maritime colors for"Navy Flight Deck"
Some examples here of dazzleflage.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/Soth837/USSNorthCarolina2.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/Soth837/USSEssex2.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/Soth837/USSIndiana1.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/Soth837/US.S%20Pittsburgh1.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/Soth837/USSIowa3.jpg
 
This is from The Painters Guide to WW2 Naval Camouflage

U.S: All horizontal surfaces (metal) were to be painted in Deck Blue (20-B). Carrier decks were stained 20-B since stains could provide color while retaining the non-skid feature of fir decks. Striping was a stain which matched Ocean Gray (5-O).

USN carrier decks were made from Douglas fir. When the USS Yorktown (CV-5) was being fitted out in 1937, she had chrome yellow flight deck markings, applied over maroon-stained douglas fir deck planking.

As that was pre-war though, go with the deck blue as stated above.
 
I posted my answer above before seeing what Soth had offered. Obviously, a bit of research should be done before deciding what to do. It would depend on the ship and the time period as to what to paint it.
 
This might help

enterprise.jpg


or this....

franklin.jpg
 
Very Good pictures there DM, most of the Carrier camo measures, you just have to wing it a bit, they all had what was called "Measure 32-C", and each dazzle pattern being unique to that particular carrier. In other words they had basic scheme guidelines, and where the Black, white, Light grey and such was painted, was up to the carriers painting crew.On My USS North Carolina, there is a personal color variance, I used Pacific Blue in place of the Light Grey.On my USS Iowa, the colors and scheme are Measure 32 which appeared late in 1944.These are just a few of my 1/700 scale models ive done, Ive been experimenting with the U.S Navy camo measures of course.The most unusual carrier color scheme, was U.S.S Hornet, that one i believe was one of a kind, the only other ship to have something close to that scheme was The Alabama, and even its scheme differed, she carried that particular paint scheme the entire War.I am no expert, took me a long time to get some of these patterns right, i practiced on the bigger models before putting the camo patterns on my GHQ 1/2400's
 
Another thing to remember is that the colours would "weather" quite quickly with the shades almost certainly lightening. Not just a WW2 problem of course. I did an inclining experiment on HMS Cornwall a few years ago. She had recently had parts of her weatherdeck repainted in dark grey camrex. he new stuff looked almost black, whilst the older stuff was much lighter, some of it almost the same shade as the light grey sides!
 
Ive found that after completing painting, some of the flats still look Glossy to me, so I spray the whole thing in Testors Dullcoat. Im an amateur when it comes to painting, been doing it for some 25 years, but still not a professional. Im constantly working or looking for new techniques to improve my models and minis, while im not a slow learner, I just have a lot on my plate and it takes me a while to catch up with"New" stuff :D
 
Well, the painters guide notwithstanding, officially, based on the navy schemes, in 1942, the Yorktown wore MS-12. Under MS-12, officially, Carrier flight decks and submarine decks, though made of wood, were not deck blue.

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12.htm

The Enterprise, in 1941, wore MS-1, in which all wooden decks, on any ship were left natural wood. In 1942, the big E wore MS-11 for part of the year. Also with natural wood colored decks (see this picture of the Saratoga in MS-11:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_11.htm

Also in 1942 and throuh 1943, the Big E wore MS-21 the Navy blue scheme, which also called for deck blue on horizontal surfaces, except for flight decks and submarines.

In 1944 Big e-wore a dazzle, MS-3, and in 1945 she was back to MS-21

Similar patterns are evidenced in the Essex class.

Of course, there is controversy. The ranger, in the atlantic, had her decks stained flight deck blue to test its application. Based on this some have argues that the carriers were flight deck blue well prior to the war. We know at some point in 1941-42, the atalntic carriers followed the rangers lead. We also know in 1943, the carrier decks were all painted with light blue stain. We assume this to be true for 1944, as none of the dazzle schemes have topside detail on the carriers. And we assumed for 1945 because the BuShips had already made flight deck blue standard.

Michael Vorsai makes a definitive arguement that the flight decks were blue before, duirng and after the war, and its fairly convincing. Except that a big part of his argument rests on his intepretation of tonal qualities from black and white photos. He does not provide us with his training in photo interpretation, however. I do know for a fact that tonal interpretation is hard, even for a trained expert, and it is very easy to read what you want to see.

Its not clear answer, but it seems most likely that flight decks were flight deck blue during 1942, except for on the Saratoga, which clearly, by color photo, has a natural wood deck. The argument of color shift is ridiculous to anyone who sees the Saratoga Photo.

Of course, Vorsai uses an eyewitness to confirm that Saratoga was blue at the time of Pearl Harbor. Obviously eyewitnesses are not always reliable on every point. Memory fades.

Thus I would say make an educated guess. If you like the deck blue in 1941-42 run with it. If you like the wood, go with that. remeber as well that as wood weathers, it greys. And that carrier decks were softwood and not mahagony or teak. Just things to think about.
 
I saw a very interesting article about a year back, concerning the U.S.S Arizona, apparently the model in the memorial site was incorrect, and had been for some 60 years. According to the crewmember in charge of Arizona's paint locker, her turret tops were painted Red to denote which division she belonged too.According to the article, the National Historic society replaced the Model with a new one, painted correctly of course.As Bickley states, it is all a matter of memory, witnesses, pictures(Most in black and white).I'd personally say, look at all options available, decide which scheme you like best of the many available, and run with it.Pretty much what I did substituting colors on North Carolina.
 
I would concur with jbickley00 to paint it the way that you like. You are your own best critic, after all. There is no doubt that Saratoga is wearing a natural wood deck color, and that sufficient weathering would eventually turn it more to a driftwood tone of grey.

The same goes for paint as well. Weathering as DM mentioned would alter the percieved colors after about six months.

Another thing I'll toss in here that has not yet been mentioned is the scale of the models. Even if painting a "fresh" shipyard paint scheme on a model, the colors should be softened or toned lighter than they would actually be due to a perceived distance because the model is not at "full scale".

The models that I painted many years ago were painted with paint that I sourced from The Floating Drydock. I smugly told friends that the paint that I had used was researched from actual paint chips from the Navy Department. Then sometime later I read that colors on scale ship models should really be toned down lighter than even the real colors due to both weathering and the scale of the model.

So in retrospect, there really can never be a totally accurate representation of a ship's colors, because even they altered with time and the amount of sunlight when being viewed.
 
Well In the U.S, there are whats known as"FS Colors" Federal Standard, but ships at sea didnt always carry FS colors. So there probably would have been quite the Variation on types of Grey, Blue, White etc etc. Notwithstanding of course the weathering, distance and all that.And Im not sure if they were actually known as FS back in the 30's and 40's.
 
There are paint chips for the US availble, and GHQ has some paints formulated to match. Some manufacturer's even make paints for each of the Japanese shipyard's different grey's.

for my own minis, I try to punch up my approximations a bit, as I use 1:6000 scale. I find I use a shade or two lighter than historical, which means my light grey is really almost white. I tend to leave my deck blue darker, though, just to punch up the contrast with the decks and the ocean. At 1:6000 you need this contrast, or your camoflaged ships disappear.

Ultimately the lesson here for all of us is that there is no 100% answer, really, but the process of looking for the answer is educational. I still find I paint historical mini's based on incorrect data or assumptions, and then I go back and change, or live with the incorrect version, knowing I am a better person as to why it is incorrect.

One of the great things about historical wargaming is that we can engage in this debate, read the accounts, and paint our ships based on what we think. So if you show up at a game with a carrier with a pink flight deck, and can tell me why you chose that color, and even better show me where a flight deck was painted pink, I am going to learn something.

History is a process, and we are all part of it here. Military history is one area where even the amatuers can make contributions.
 
Well, there was a USN pink submarine you know. :wink:

The flick Operation Pettycoat was based on this historical bit of trivia.

They didn't have enough white primer or red oxide primer, so they mixed it all together to have enough hull paint. Besides the movie with Tony Curtiss and Cary Grant is a good watch. A real classic. I think they sank a truck in the movie as well. :lol:

Here is another thread from last August about naval paint.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29547&sid=04c865bf6f117a36089795510f04f9b2

Also, here are several pics of some of my old 1/1200 ships. I did make an attempt to give the appearance of a weathered deck on the Hornet. All three ships are wearing the same measure 12 (modified).

DCP_1200_8.jpg


DCP_1200_9.jpg
 
Here are some nice color photos from the US Navy Archives:

USSYorktown1943EssexClass.jpg



USSSaratoga1942.jpg


USSEnterpriseOctober1945.jpg


USSEnterpriseJune1941.jpg


BTW the archive can be found here.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usn-name.htm

They have excellent shot of many ships in action too!

Including some ships from navies other than the US
 
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