Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works

Personally, I want to know why all gravitic drives are not M-Drives?

M-Drives on spaceships are limited to 1,000D (which I don't like, but whatever)

M-Drives on orbital craft could be limited to 1D

M-Drives on "grav vehicles" could be limited to 0.51D

Create a mechanic whereas the power input determines which craft it is used for. 100% for spacecraft. 1% for orbital craft. 0.5% for "grav vehicles"

Don't need to use that exact breakdown or even tie it to power. I am sure that there are other ways to go about it as well that would work.
.51D would limit the grav vehicle to .01D above the planet's surface, But grav vehicles have always been able to lift into at least LEO.
1D would restrict grav vehicles from geo-stationary orbits without some other method of propulsion, but planetary M-Drives should be able to reach those altitudes on their own.
 
I'd have to understand the mechanism as to why there are restrictions on the altitude.
I do not think anything has been written on this, but I am not certain. That is why I suggested that a mechanism may need to be written for describing the game-mechanical differences between all of the different drives that use gravity manipulation.
 
Ship M drive > Orbital M-Drive > Gravity Vehicle > Lifter
Successively cheaper/smaller/weaker internals result in needing more of a gravity well in order to operate.
 
I'd have to understand the mechanism as to why there are restrictions on the altitude.

It would probably have to do with the strength of the field. We know that a 1G maneuver drive can propel a starship to escape a world with 1G gravity (or not? would it need at least 1.1G propulsion to actually escape the gravity well of a 1G world?) The math can be done from there I guess, if people really want to figure the gravities of worlds and the altitude ceilings for different grav propulsion systems. This could open an unpleasant can of worms because it would affect all grav propulsion vehicles include grav belts and grav propulsion equipped battledress, FGMPs with grav tech recoil compensators, and the like. Some vehicles may not be able to function on high gravity worlds, some ships may not be able to safely scoop unrefined fuel from gas giants, and so on. This is something to consider carefully before changing.
 
Last edited:
It would probably have to do with the strength of the field. We know that a 1G maneuver drive can propel a starship to escape a world with 1G gravity (on not? would it need at least 1.1G propulsion to actually escape the gravity well of a 1G world?) The math can be done from there I guess, if people really want to figure the gravities of worlds and the altitude ceilings for different grav propulsion systems. This could open an unpleasant can of worms because it would affect all grav propulsion vehicles include grav belts and grav propulsion equipped battledress, FGMPs with grav tech recoil compensators, and the like. Some vehicles may not be able to function on high gravity worlds, some ships may not be able to safely scoop unrefined fuel from gas giants, and so on. This is something to consider carefully before changing.
All of those things are problems that will be solved by clarifying the different requirements, advantages / disadvantages, and trade-offs in each type of technology. There is already the problem that a Grav-belt ought to work differently on worlds of different gravity, near black holes, etc -- but they simply don't. This means that every referee who encounters this issue has to hand-wave & house-rule, because there is simply no guidance at all.

Also, let me add Gravtity Rifles and gravitic plumbing to the discussion.
 
Part of the problem, now, is that the designers don't want you to mix advantages and disadvantages in customization.

Because, prior to the reboot, I had a pseudo lifter factor/one, orbital range, and seventy five percent energy efficient.
 
All of those things are problems that will be solved by clarifying the different requirements, advantages / disadvantages, and trade-offs in each type of technology. There is already the problem that a Grav-belt ought to work differently on worlds of different gravity, near black holes, etc -- but they simply don't. This means that every referee who encounters this issue has to hand-wave & house-rule, because there is simply no guidance at all.

Also, let me add Gravtity Rifles and gravitic plumbing to the discussion.
As I understand it, gravitic plumbing is integral to Fusion+.
Dunno about gravitic rifles, but one of my players was quick to install a gravitic stabilizer on his shotgun.
 
As I understand it, gravitic plumbing is integral to Fusion+.
Dunno about gravitic rifles, but one of my players was quick to install a gravitic stabilizer on his shotgun.
Gravity Rifles (JTAS V04, p 31) are a high-tech weapon, a bit superior to Gauss weapons. Instead of using electromagnetism to accelerate rounds, they use 'gravitic gradients' 'stacks of circular grav plates that press a round forward and inward' - which some ignorant author obviously thought made them super-special. The gradients are described as being around 40G obviously constrained to capabilities (7G, 8G, & 9G for TL 13, 14, & 15 weapons) of the prevailing technology level, which is utter crap compared to the 20000 G acceleration experienced by an ordinary ACR round.

Gravitics for plumbing completely transforms how we think about laying out networks for moving liquids around. Valves and pumps become obsolete; and 'storage tanks' can be oriented any old way (although best-practices probably has them all with a common orientation).
 
Last edited:
Gravity Rifles are a super-tech weapon, a bit superior to Gauss weapons. Instead of using electromagnetism to accelerate rounds, they use 'gravitic gradients' -- which some ignorant author obviously thought made them super-special. The gradients are described as being around 40G, which is utter crap compared to the 20000 G acceleration experienced by an ordinary ACR round.

Gravitics for plumbing completely transforms how we think about laying out networks for moving liquids around. Valves and pumps become obsolete; and 'storage tanks' can be oriented any old way (although best-practices probably has them all with a common orientation).
Well, valves with remote/automatic actuators would still be a thing to isolate areas for maintenance or to prevent backflow on a loss of power. But pumps would be relegated to niche maintenance roles at best.

Gravity rifle... sounds like it would only be lethal if the target were the projectile.
 
Well, valves with remote/automatic actuators would still be a thing to isolate areas for maintenance or to prevent backflow on a loss of power. But pumps would be relegated to niche maintenance roles at best.
For working on out-of-service piping, the plumber is not changing 'up' and 'down' in arbitrary directions over an entire dTon; just inside a pipe or two. Worst case, plug it into local power -- but I think a battery should handle the load just fine for a few hours. In-service piping would definitely be hard-wired to local power; which might rely on the battery-backup of the structure itself, or there might be a dedicated power backup specifically for the plumbing.

Any 'gravitic' technology turns electrical energy into a gravity gradient of either potential or kinetic energy -- so it seems like going backwards from 'falling object' to 'electrical energy' should be trivial. Heck, we do that today -- like with hydroelectric power. But the point is that higher TLs of gravitics allow an 'anti-gravity elevator / levitation tube' to have a completely passive failsafe -- anything falling generates energy which can be used to power the gravitics. Since energy conversion is never 100% perfect, expect some losses -- but the 'safety net' does not require any actual netting.
 
Master Gwydion is right that all-or-nothing 'lifters' are problematic, and a black hole is a perfect illustration of that problem. Using 'lifters' a civilization could easily disassemble a singularity; just 'straighten the curvature of space-time' and that nigh-infinite mass is no longer pulling on itself.

Certainly the event horizon is meaningless. 'The boundary beyond which gravity is so strong that even light cannot escape'? Nope, I gots me a 'lifter' so gravity is zero.

IMTU, lifters aren't all or nothing. They are scaled to whatever tonnage vehicle they're part of, and have a maximum gravity well they can enter and counter. So a 1G, 400 ton subbie could enter a gas giant and refuel in the upper atmosphere, but not land, and likewise would be able to take off or land on a planet of up to 3 gravities.

It wouldn't work in deep space, but that's what the actual manuever drive is for - even though the lifter is included in the price and tonnage of the m-drive without explicit details, because you're buying the whole drive instead of just a space drive section or a planetary landing/takeoff portion.
 
Before the SOM I used M-Drives as omnidirectional, so no lifters were needed. The M-Drive did everything. Not sure why they went and complicated it for no reason. If you want to land on a 1G planet, you need above M/1 or you are never taking off again. IMTU M/2 is the minimum required for ships that do planetary landings. Unstreamlined ships use the M/1 Drive since they don't land on planets. This made sense to me since a ship designed to land on a planet should have less cargo space then the same ship designed to only operate in space.
 
If you are using your M-Drive the whole time, it is a fixed number, so no.

No, I didn't. We are comparing things within the same atmosphere. If you are landing on a planet, you can't change the air's density. You have to deal with that as a constant.
air density isn't a constant - unless you want to make it a constant variable. Atmosphere lower to sea level is denser than atmosphere higher. If you are de-orbiting and landing on a planet you can enter the upper atmosphere at very high speed (shuttle would de-orbit at about 17,500mph) at early re-entry, but it had to slow down because it would rip itself apart and/or melt if it tried to do that all the way down as air density increased, drag increased and heat/structural stress increased. It would enter over the Pacific and do a few corkscrews to bleed off speed and get down to lower mach as it descended towards Florida.

As it descended it continued to slow, by design and because of drag/increasing air density. Objects flying at high speeds at low altitudes have to be designed very carefully, and even then there are still limitations to things. And all are very aerodynamic or else they couldn't do it. Small objects, like say a railgun projectile, are smaller and usually dense enough to do things that a manned starship could not due to the increased size and increases across the board in drag/resistance and power requirements.
 
Why do the lifters work the same on a 1G world as on a 2G world or a 0.5G world?
That's one of those version-dependent questions. I didn't buy the new SSOM book so I can't comment on how they explain their operation in there. In some versions the 1G would fail on a 2G world. In MT SSOM you had the drive that could be over-clocked to 400% output (terrible engineering explanation) to make up for how the field was projected.

So the answer is (shrug), I dunno? Not enough of an explanation?
 
Wait till the last moment, and then overclock the manoeuvre drive.

Not sure what kind of acceleration forces that would impart on the hull.

Though, going by the current rules, inertial compensation should also spike to cancel that out for the passengers.
 
Back
Top