Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works

Because they tell the gravitational field to stop yanking them around? Like a gravitational mirror? (hands wave in random pattern ending in a shrug)
So, more handwavium. Okay. Personally, I wouldn't use lifters on anything with an M-Drive. Lifters should be just for hoverbikes and Star Wars-style speeders, not for anything that actually flies.

Also, lifters should be calibrated for the planetary gravity they are being used on and not infinitely variable.
 
So, more handwavium. Okay. Personally, I wouldn't use lifters on anything with an M-Drive. Lifters should be just for hoverbikes and Star Wars-style speeders, not for anything that actually flies.

Also, lifters should be calibrated for the planetary gravity they are being used on and not infinitely variable.

It makes more sense for them to be variable, otherwise you can't take it with you on your far trader.
 
There are still two ways to float on gravity:

1. Pushing

2. Rejecting

Inertial compensation explains itself by the creation of an opposing field effect that coincidentally matches whatever thrust is produced.

Does (gravitational) lifting find a similar equilibrium?
 
What do you mean by pushing against gravity? Pushing against spacetime curvature? How do you push against something that isn't a force, matter or energy?

You are still thinking gravity is a force field. It isn't.

Rejecting... now this has possibilities.

It is the curvature of space time, it is the path that must be followed. Light, matter, all must follow the path.

Remove yourself from spacetime using gravitics and you no longer have to follow the path.
 
And if it's variable, then it could be automatically variable and handle any gravity field. Like it, um, does. ;)
So, it functions at 1,000,000G as well then? Think about the consequences of what you guys are all saying. Decoupling from gravity? Does this then mean that everyone on a floating city is weightless? How are you including the vehicle but excluding the environment inside of the vehicle, if it is indeed a "field". Does it require more power at 10G than it does at 1G? How can I use this loophole of physics in radically different ways than the game designers intend? Does this mean that we can now disconnect the connection between one mass and another so that they have no gravitational interaction? At what TL? 8 or 9? Being able to do that is a fundamental change in the laws of physics. Any physicists in here want to point out the problem with being able to "decouple" a mass from gravity? What did you do? Uncurve spacetime? Does this now mean that we can escape from black holes using lifters? By y'alls' definition of lifters decoupling from gravity with no limits would seem to indicate this. Also, humans can now live on 3G worlds, just wear a "lifter field rig" and decouple yourself from gravity. Tiny thruster pack and you can fly like the Rocketeer? This definition of lifters changes so much about how the universe functions that you could not build Charted Space with it. The ability to "decouple" from gravity without limit is game-breaking with its ancillary effects.

Edit: If lifters do this, then why do gravity shields exist and exist at such a high TL that they cannot be built in Charted Space, but lifters can do the same thing at TL-9?
 
So, it functions at 1,000,000G as well then? Think about the consequences of what you guys are all saying. Decoupling from gravity?
The ship gravitics are decoupled from the local curvature of spacetime, the internal artificial gravity and acceleration compensation work just fine.

It means that the curvature of spacetime caused by the massive body or energy source nearby is ignored, the ship still has the preserved momentum of its drives.
Does this then mean that everyone on a floating city is weightless?
Does the floating city have artificial gravity plates?
How are you including the vehicle but excluding the environment inside of the vehicle, if it is indeed a "field".
The internals of the vehicle have grav plates.
Does it require more power at 10G than it does at 1G?
Doesn't matter, energy conservation went out the window a long time ago.
How can I use this loophole of physics in radically different ways than the game designers intend?
The same way you can use every other loophole, perpetual motion machines in Traveller are easy.
Does this mean that we can now disconnect the connection between one mass and another so that they have no gravitational interaction?
What do you consider to be mass? Interaction with the Higgs field? Binding energy mass equivalence?

Masses don't pull on each other, a mass distorts the spacetime around it - this causes the observable effect that makes us think the masses are pulling on each other - they are not. There is no force.
At what TL? 8 or 9? Being able to do that is a fundamental change in the laws of physics.
The fundamental laws of physics as we understand them change at TL8 with gravitivs, or 9, depending on your rule set paradigm.

Then jump is discovered, which requires another new physics paradigm etc.
Any physicists in here want to point out the problem with being able to "decouple" a mass from gravity? What did you do?
If I could I would write a paper on it and win a nobel prize, it is make believe. There could be low energy states where the curvature of spacetime or gravity has no observable effect, somehow lifters are achieving that.



Uncurve spacetime? Does this now mean that we can escape from black holes using lifters?
Not once you are beyond the event horizon, the lifters would just accelerate you towards the singularity.
By y'alls' definition of lifters decoupling from gravity with no limits would seem to indicate this. Also, humans can now live on 3G worlds, just wear a "lifter field rig" and decouple yourself from gravity. Tiny thruster pack and you can fly like the Rocketeer? This definition of lifters changes so much about how the universe functions that you could not build Charted Space with it. The ability to "decouple" from gravity without limit is game-breaking with its ancillary effects.
Do you think the authors of the SoM or other books thought through this stuff?
Edit: If lifters do this, then why do gravity shields exist and exist at such a high TL that they cannot be built in Charted Space, but lifters can do the same thing at TL-9?
probably because:
the book authors do not read each others work
the book authors don't use the rules as written
the book authors change stuff and it passes through edit and inner circle with barely a murmur.

The Deep Space Explorer's Handbook and the technology of the SoM are at odds.
 
The ship gravitics are decoupled from the local curvature of spacetime, the internal artificial gravity and acceleration compensation work just fine.

It means that the curvature of spacetime caused by the massive body or energy source nearby is ignored, the ship still has the preserved momentum of its drives.

Does the floating city have artificial gravity plates?

The internals of the vehicle have grav plates.

Doesn't matter, energy conservation went out the window a long time ago.

The same way you can use every other loophole, perpetual motion machines in Traveller are easy.

What do you consider to be mass? Interaction with the Higgs field? Binding energy mass equivalence?

Masses don't pull on each other, a mass distorts the spacetime around it - this causes the observable effect that makes us think the masses are pulling on each other - they are not. There is no force.

The fundamental laws of physics as we understand them change at TL8 with gravitivs, or 9, depending on your rule set paradigm.

Then jump is discovered, which requires another new physics paradigm etc.

If I could I would write a paper on it and win a nobel prize, it is make believe. There could be low energy states where the curvature of spacetime or gravity has no observable effect, somehow lifters are achieving that.




Not once you are beyond the event horizon, the lifters would just accelerate you towards the singularity.

Do you think the authors of the SoM or other books thought through this stuff?

probably because:
the book authors do not read each others work
the book authors don't use the rules as written
the book authors change stuff and it passes through edit and inner circle with barely a murmur.

The Deep Space Explorer's Handbook and the technology of the SoM are at odds.
Right, but if you are "decoupled" from "gravity" then why can't you jump to 1D away from a stellar object? Lifters cause more problems than they fix.
 
Also, vehicles and structures don't have artificial gravity. They could, but they usually don't. That is why the power requirements are power points equal to 20% of tonnage for spaceships and 10% of tonnage for pretty much everything else.
 
Right, but if you are "decoupled" from "gravity" then why can't you jump to 1D away from a stellar object? Lifters cause more problems than they fix.
The lifter is in jump space with you, not decoupling you from the normal universe. You precipitate at or around the 100D limit.
Similarly with jumping out from there. If the decoupling allowed you to jump early, once the lifter is in jump space, the gravity well affects the jump.
 
You could attribute three quarters of the technology in Traveller to our understanding and manipulation of gravity.

The manoeuvre drive needs a gravity well as an anchor, so you have that push/pull phenomenon.

My take on gravitational motors, such as installed on an air/raft, is that it creates a field effect that rejects gravity, to what degree depends about the same as that of what caps acceleration in manoeuvre drives.
 
You could attribute three quarters of the technology in Traveller to our understanding and manipulation of gravity.

The manoeuvre drive needs a gravity well as an anchor, so you have that push/pull phenomenon.

My take on gravitational motors, such as installed on an air/raft, is that it creates a field effect that rejects gravity, to what degree depends about the same as that of what caps acceleration in manoeuvre drives.
If this is to be the case, then shouldn't such motors also have G values like an M-Drive? Also, it should have its upper limit on velocity determined by air density. That way, the same motor in two different planets, with equal gravity but different air density, would have the same acceleration, but differing max speeds.
 
Master Gwydion is right that all-or-nothing 'lifters' are problematic, and a black hole is a perfect illustration of that problem. Using 'lifters' a civilization could easily disassemble a singularity; just 'straighten the curvature of space-time' and that nigh-infinite mass is no longer pulling on itself.

Certainly the event horizon is meaningless. 'The boundary beyond which gravity is so strong that even light cannot escape'? Nope, I gots me a 'lifter' so gravity is zero.
 
Personally, I want to know why all gravitic drives are not M-Drives?

M-Drives on spaceships are limited to 1,000D (which I don't like, but whatever)

M-Drives on orbital craft could be limited to 1D

M-Drives on "grav vehicles" could be limited to 0.51D

Create a mechanic whereas the power input determines which craft it is used for. 100% for spacecraft. 1% for orbital craft. 0.5% for "grav vehicles"

Don't need to use that exact breakdown or even tie it to power. I am sure that there are other ways to go about it as well that would work.
 
Who knows.

I tend to think they use different mechanisms to achieve certain goals, which in theory should be reflected in performance, cost and energy requirements.
 
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