Update on Battlefield Evo - The Full Scoop

Greetings again,

My recent perusal of the latest posts has led me to wax a bit existential. Our debates have become cyclical, rather than pointed. So I suggest that we all take a walk in the woods. Its simpler-er. (This makes for good strategery by the way!)

I went on a walk in the woods. There were two paths in front of me. One looked to be readily traveled. It was worn and open. It looked to be an easy walk on a bright sunny day. I walked upon this path for a while, but found it was filled with very very angry people. These people were shouting. They were pumping their fists into the air with rage. They were pointing fingers at each other.

Along side of the path, there was a clearing. This clearing was filled with comfortable tables (but seemed to smell a bit like musty basement... hmmmm....). Upon each table was a 4 foot x 4 foot piece of wood. Upon this wood were pieces of foam, cut to look as hills. Also on the table were pieces of lichen from the forest floor. Interestingly enough, when placed upon the table, the lichen appeared as trees and shrubs, rather than the diminutive fungus it really is. Scattered all upon the forest floor were what appeared to be little toy dollies with guns. Piles of dice, sporting a multitude of wondrous colors upon each facet, were left unused on the benches near each table...

When I entered this glade, I felt a sense of deep sadness; a sense of longing. These dollies all called to me (after I ate some of the diminutive fungus, of course). One said to me this... "DaWarboss! Please help us, for we are all alone. We were told we weren't pretty enough to be played with. Some of the angry men on the path called us foul names. Why aren't we good enough? We just want to be loved enough so that we can blow the other dollies to little, bitty bits of plastic carnage! Why? When DaWarboss is gonna be our time? WHY?"

I picked up the speaking dolly, and told him it would be alright. He seemed contented by this and let out a sigh. I collected his brethren, tanks and all, and placed them into my pockets. In truth, they weren't the prettiest dollies I'd seen in my other walks in the woods, but it didn't matter to me.

Then, with my dollies in hand (and pocket) I walked back to the path, past all of the screaming, angry men. They did not seem to notice, for they were to busy doing the aforementioned fist-pumping and angry-eyed bellowing to notice my passage. I walked back up the path towards whence I came. After a brief stroll of speaking to the dollies and enjoying the warmth of the sunbeams upon my face, I came once again to the fork in the road.

This time, I went upon the road less traveled. It was, in truth, a harder walk. The path was not as worn, the trees encroaching more with each step. But after a slightly longer labor on this trail, I arrived at another clearing. This clearing was not as wondrous to look upon as the last, but it did still smell slightly reminiscent of musty basements and stale cold pizza. I drank in the smell for a moment and noticed another set of tables. These tables were similarly adorned with foam and lichen bits. These even spotted some small rocks which, upon the tables, appeared as gigantic boulders. I placed the dollies upon the table. They immediately set about making fortifications and definsible positions and pizza and beer!

I waited a while in the company of my dollies and soon a group of not-so-angry men entered the glade as well. Each of them had some dollies matching the quality of mine. These men placed their dollies upon tables too, and thier dollies set about making fortifications and definsible positions and tea and biccies (these dollies were British, but welcomed just the same)!

I was approached by one of the men, and he asked if he could place his dollies upon me table. I readily consented. His dollies immediately set about making fortifications and definsible positions and giving my dollies the finger while jeering with thick accents (these dollies were from New York City, but welcomed just the same)!

The man across the table from me said "these aren't the prettiest dollies in the world, but they seem to enjoy doing their jobs". To this I replied "'tis true. They may not be as pretty as other dollies out there, but we shall make them our own and play with them and laugh, for this is just a game".

Jay :wink:
 
While I agree with your sentiments completely, your post is likely to be falling on proverbial deaf ears. After all this time, I feel that the posters (and lurkers) here have fallen into two camps... either "Mongoose is the spawn of Satan and is trying to bait-and-switch us", or "Let's wait and see". I don't think there's much middle ground. I'm hoping that the former will stop posting thair pointless rantings and the latter will go back to what we came here for: having fun and playing a game.
I think the quality is fine for the price (admittedly, I was expecting 'pro-painting quality as advertised... of course I'm disappointed about that). 5 figures from a sci-fi wargame line that I will not mention here costs $25 us. I'm paying about that same price for 9-10 figures that I don't have paint. A tank from the same company? Anywhere from $30-60. BF:E tanks cost me about $20 with shipping, and I don't have to put it together nor paint it.
Ah, well. Let the flaming begin!
DaWarbossMI said:
Greetings again,

I waited a while in the company of my dollies and soon a group of not-so-angry men entered the glade as well. Each of them had some dollies matching the quality of mine. These men placed their dollies upon tables too, and thier dollies set about making fortifications and definsible positions and tea and biccies (these dollies were British, but welcomed just the same)!


The man across the table from me said "these aren't the prettiest dollies in the world, but they seem to enjoy doing their jobs". To this I replied "'tis true. They may not be as pretty as other dollies out there, but we shall make them our own and play with them and laugh, for this is just a game".

Jay :wink:
 
jay

your warped and you scare evan me !!!!

but thats all these are are gaming peices.

if you can do the job better go do it, and make no excuses, if you cant do the job any better, shut up head down learn the trade till you can ;) thats what i was told many years ago when i worked in engineering, i went on to change and improve many things.
 
or

I choose a third path. I bought a set of other, cheaper, dollies and tanks, painted them up in an adequate fashion and found they looked better.

Problem is, I can't play with my dollies in your woodland glade because only your dollies have the magic stat card and the rules don't include stats.

OK - I get the point, we are all frothing over something without actually having first hand view of the models or rules. Maybe we all need to step back and take a breath, but I suspect that even if we did, any rational and reasonable observer would think that this product is not what was advertised.
 
docrailgun said:
I think the quality is fine for the price (admittedly, I was expecting 'pro-painting quality as advertised... of course I'm disappointed about that). 5 figures from a sci-fi wargame line that I will not mention here costs $25 us. I'm paying about that same price for 9-10 figures that I don't have paint. A tank from the same company? Anywhere from $30-60. BF:E tanks cost me about $20 with shipping, and
DaWarbossMI said:
But these are not sci fi figures, there is nothing remotely sci fi about them. These are modern wargames figures, same as you get from TAG, DDD, or any of a number of other companies.
 
DaWarboss gets my nomination for Post of the Month, setting the bar for 2007 Post of the Year at an unprecedented high! :D
 
Several points here:

First, I don't blame China. Mongoose contracted with them, it was ultimately their responsibility to ensure that a product with the Mongoose name met their quality standards. As a consumer, you don't need to know nor care about the supplier of the plastic (perhaps it's sub-standard) or the factory where the minis are molded (perhaps the molds are worn and need replacing) or the painting assembly line (they may be using inferior paints than promised, or not doing them to the professional standards they promised). Ultimately, the box says Mongoose, and we as consumers only care if Mongoose = Quality. None of the rest matters.

So clearly Mongoose dropped the ball.

And as I mentioned before, and has been restated since by others, if we purchase these Wave 1 figures we're rewarding Mongoose. We're saying that this level of quality is acceptable. It's that simple.

I recently started getting GoMC1 stuff, and will continue to do so. I'm not advocating a boycott of Mongoose. But personally, I cannot reward this particular product line by backing them with my money. If it manages to sell well, they have no incentive to improve quality.

Steve
 
Bottom line is Mongoose has lost ALOT of sales over this already. Probably even a few customers in general. While they have alot of stuff I intend to purchase still its not any of this new garbage. After perusing a number of wargaming forums over the last couple of days it looks like the consensus is pretty much in. The vast majority of people who were in have backed out. A scattered few have outright said they wont buy ANYTHING from mongoose anymore. Only about 5% of the posts I have read back this product(not counting the wait and see-ers). We know how fickle gamers can be wait and see usually ends up being" I will wait............oh look. Whats that on the shelf? Something neat! Battlefieldwhatnow?" It seems fairly definate now, this product WILL NOT be a smashing success. A lukewarm following at best. Mongooses should have just stuck to pushing the stuff that already has a following. If I were in charge of MGP I would 1: Release the game and sell the stuff anyway and support it but not with all guns blazing. Thats really all they can do now. GO back to supporting SST as it currently stand a traditional build em yourself miniatures game but of course go ahead with the second edition of the rules because come on all good MWGs need new editions :D. They really need to stop and think about that before they destroy SST with this junk. I am currently in the process of collecting SST and was on the fence over purchasing the pre-painted stuff anyway. It would have to be something I really wanted. But if it is anything like this in quality(the sculpts are really bad. I think I am more critical of those than the painting) I wouldnt touch them with a ten foot rod. MGP has me as a customer so long as I can get the older build it yourself stuff. SST, GoMC1(eventually),and maybe even ME stuff. I really like this stuff and it is good product. As soon as mongoose stops producing this stuff they wont see another dollar from me ever. They will simply have nothing more to offer a veteran gamer and hobbyist. This crap is definetly NOT up my alley. I would buy AT-43 in a heartbeat over this stuff.
 
just ahving another play with the rules

reactions

you can react to an enemy unit shooting at you buy shooting back and you dont evan need to be in 10" !!!!

to be honest of you dont play these rules your be missing out not mongoose, rules often sell minis,

i was looking in toysRus today at the prepainted toy and to be honest thay all have paint jobs on them that mini gamers would complain about and this is from companies with huge incomes and recources unlike anything any games company would ever have.

for mongoose to drasticly improve the quality they need to use a bigger manifacturer, and in turn shift more units to cover the costs, if gamers where 10 a penny then yes thed use a better manufacturer, instead they have used one in good faith that is probably growing, and this first wave has probably payed and paved the way forward for them to make inprovments and advancments in the future, and if this is the case we the gamers will prosper and benefit, great rules ok modles V rakams good figs and questionable rules (the more i play it now the worse it fares to BF-evo)

i think this will sell, their game peices that intime will improve to compete with regular minis.

one peice of advise for mongoose would be to creat a box that holds 4 boxes of figs and some dice and a cheap tape measure, as a starter pack at a slight discount.
 
GO back to supporting SST as it currently stand a traditional build em yourself miniatures game but of course go ahead with the second edition of the rules because come on all good MWGs need new editions . They really need to stop and think about that before they destroy SST with this junk.

I disagree. I think they should still move forward with SST:Evo, but just make 100% sure they bring it to market right the first time. SST as it stood was not achieving critical mass in the gaming community from what I could tell.

After perusing a number of wargaming forums over the last couple of days it looks like the consensus is pretty much in. The vast majority of people who were in have backed out.

I don't think this is necessarily true either. The net forums constitute an extremely vocal but small minority of the total players base. In addition, I tend to see the same names making LOTS of posts on different forums. Sure, there is some difference in the forum population from place to place, but it seems like there is significant cross-pollination in the naysayer crowd.

I do know that there are LOTS of people out there who HATE painting miniatures, and having not been exposed to the shock factor of the pre-production vs. production models, I think there is certainly the potential for this game to do well - especially based on the strength of the rules. Not a market shattering success, but perhaps a steady and profitable line for Mongoose.

This incident has definitely reinforced the opinions of the staunchly anti-prepaint crowd. But then they weren't going to buy anyway.

I will be very interested to see in a year from now how people look back on this whole thing.
 
I agree that the net community and the real world game community are seperate entities. I realize that the pre-paint side of the gamer community is fairly large. I for one have in the past bought alot of pre-paint stuff more for the instant play value of the game itself. But have always been on the fence as far as taking it seriously. I actaully found BFE apealing at first with the proto pics. Not these though. The sculpts are really bad. They dont look any better than alot of pre-paint stuff and the cost is crazy for the quality. I couldnt fathom paying $30 for those figs. There is so much more product with quality lightyears above this stuff available throughout gamerdom to apease my appetite for toys. Like I stated before Mongoose has alot of good product I want and WILL yet purchase. Just not this stuff. ANd when they phase out the older stuff and go with only this stuff unless they come out with something for SST or whatever that is much better quality they will not have me as a customer anymore. If I were to sink ANY money into this pre-paint stuff I would be more inclined at this point to pick up AT-43.
 
I think the regular wargaming community is giving itself a little too much credit. Try this angle for a change - Battlefield Evolution is not a game for wargamers...

If the game plays as well as everyone says, and if the minis are as good as WotC Star Wars or even better, the game will probably be a smashing success, regardless of the opinion of every wargamer in the world.

You want to know why? Because the game will open up the worlds of contemporary wargaming for a substantial number of people who are presently NOT WARGAMERS.

It's a pity that the painting quality may fall short of what we may have been led to believe, but if the game is good enough, it will appeal to a huge big crowd out there, who never thought they would be playing with toy soldiers.

Sections of the wargamer community may rant and scream, but it really doesn't matter, because they already have a ton of models, painted to exacting standards, to play with. They don't need this game.

As I said, Battlefield Evolution is really not for you, but it IS a game for everyone who would like to play a wargame without investing hundreds of hours assembling and painting the miniatures before they even look at the gaming table!
 
willypold said:
I think the regular wargaming community is giving itself a little too much credit. Try this angle for a change - Battlefield Evolution is not a game for wargamers...

If the game plays as well as everyone says, and if the minis are as good as WotC Star Wars or even better, the game will probably be a smashing success, regardless of the opinion of every wargamer in the world.

You want to know why? Because the game will open up the worlds of contemporary wargaming for a substantial number of people who are presently NOT WARGAMERS.

It's a pity that the painting quality may fall short of what we may have been led to believe, but if the game is good enough, it will appeal to a huge big crowd out there, who never thought they would be playing with toy soldiers.

Sections of the wargamer community may rant and scream, but it really doesn't matter, because they already have a ton of models, painted to exacting standards, to play with. They don't need this game.

As I said, Battlefield Evolution is really not for you, but it IS a game for everyone who would like to play a wargame without investing hundreds of hours assembling and painting the miniatures before they even look at the gaming table!

I think this is a valid point. My impression is that this is not aimed at the old lead poisoned gamers, this is targetted at the people who buy CMGs. Yes there is \ are crossovers (me - I could not resist the SWM Stormtroopers :lol: ) The real test will be how much it sells outside the wargaming world.
 
there not that bad

check these out


Abramsfinal3a.jpg


Abramsfinal5.JPG


these are the best of their bunch used for the catalogs and far more exspensive than BF-evo and slightly larger scale at 1:48

there is a little bit more detail in the MG figs and a bit more put into the cam rather than keeping it basic brown swiggles for simplicity.

ever thought wouldnt it be cool to go in a shop and buy these minis and then put them on a table and play a game !!! well thats what bf evo is.
 
This argument is pointless.

This product has been subsequently destroyed by its own hype. NOW you want to justify why I should sit here and pay for an unpresentable product from Mongoose, who yet again tried to cover for lack of standards.

Points that I consider-

- The posted pictures were altered into the already posted thread in such a way that they look as if everyone commented on and knew for a fact that the substandard paintjob was what we were to expect.

- The claim was given to the general public that the miniatures were going to be sold, prepainted at a quality better then 90% of the gamers out there.

- Matt stated that he would sell the stated miniatures over his dead body, but later posted that after a day of having the figures that they had " grown on him."

- The SST line itself was not given the proper attention and support, and even as a NONPAINTED sculpt, were sold to us as loyal SST/ Mongoose fans that were being marketed quantity over quality.

- Even after numerous and extensive criticisms of the substandard sculpts, the substandard miniatures were destributed, until reality finally caught up with the bottom line and $$$ told you what everyone already had about the Skinnies... that they sucked.

- A curt and sudden cancelation of the whole SST system left us with a now defunct miniature, and a gaming system that is, as of now dead in the water. The claim was given that the game would be redistributed, along with a " New and Better gaming system called BF Evolution."


We as the general public, were not even given the benefit of a voice in the abrubt cancilation of the SST game, were left with well over hundreds of thousands of dollers in product, and at current time, are STILL being played for a bunch of chumps who are supposed to be happy and give another chance, while at the same time support a company who has used deception and lack of standard to market, produce, and distribute THIER PRODUCT.

All along with all of this, we are given wrong, or nonexistant expectation of learning from the past and substandard improvement of the issues in the gaming system.

I will not buy these guys, and with the level of disastrous deception that I see continually being given the product, I will no longer support this company. Mongoose has done far too much in terms of putting the cart before the horse.

Now your going to lose another customer because of it.
 
Low Roller 1-1 said:
Cailet said:
msprange said:
You know, I was thinking about this today. Anyone free on a Saturday near the end of the month?

You complete and utter [censored] I have a job at last and you time your projected open day for the week after payday *shakes fist*. :P

I'll be there though :)

You had better you still owe me some food fromlast time :wink:

Biggest breakfast of your life (well, maybe not but as near as the Sunflower does 'em).

I have to say I'm a tad disappointed. When I saw the brits at the open day I can honestly say my jaw dropped a little. Now...

I'll wait until I see them in the flesh before passing judgement but I suspect I will still buy because I like the SYSTEM. That and my painting is STILL worse than that... :evil:
 
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