Update on Battlefield Evo - The Full Scoop

Mr Evil said:
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so their not the quality we exspected ! shock horror !!! mongoose let you down !!!! well not realy, your exspectations let you down, .

Sorry, I can't let that pass unanswered.

Expectations were fostered by Mongoose in their pre release announcements, which actually stated that the minis would look like those in the first pictures. Please stop trying to rewrite history or spin it in any other way.

I assume one of the reasons they have pulled the first set of pictures has to be that if they went ahead and sold them, they could easily face action under the Trades Descriptions Act here in the UK.

btw using FoW as an example of scaling is a no-no as their tanks are notoriously too tall. As for the “as big as a car” comment, maybe you missed the fact that we are talking about M1s, Challengers etc here, not Vickers Carden Loyd tankettes. You must have really big cars where you live.

So to sum up, please stop trying to tell us everything is great and it is our fault. It is not, in both cases.
 
i never said its great, infact ive stated its not perfect, and ive been at the front line in complaining about the product, and from the start of the project i displayed my doubts that the product would be as people exspected it to be.

im not in supprise, infact this was the sorta quality i thought would probably end up comming out.

but the tanks like challenger and abrahms are small on a games table, as its about focal point of view.

look at a pic i put up a few pages ago and in an old post the hull comes to bellow shoulder hieght, tanks need a low profile and need to be no wider than a lorry so they can traverse urban enviroments, russian tanks are designed to fit into their underground system for example.

thing is these minis can be used from the day you buy them, unless you can swear blind you can get the minis painted in the time it takes you to get them home better than they come id be supprised, im a speedpainter and i paint for money and many people on the forum know my work, and i have to say from a painters perspective, their OK, and if i whant them to look better then i can add a bit of paint here and there, if im incapable of doing that then these minis must be better painted than i could achieve.

at the moment we are judging pictures of minis that have been taken digitly and displayed on a screen with the DPI being blown out, the pics are larger than the minis in some cases ! so anything bad is magnified (well on my screen any way)

if you wish to flame and judge a product shouldnt you first own it and be able to hold it ?

ive sold many things on ebay, and ive had peopel email me back saying the pics didnt do the minis no where near enough justice, or the pics were misleading !!! look at this symbol on the screen :) is it perfectly round or has the screen and dpi gone a bit pixilated so loss of detail ?

one thing with new pics ive noticed is their more pixel grainy, and evan the origianal pics wernt perfect in that department.

im going to judge them for these reasons when i have a boxset in my hand and a fig up to my eye, ive seen the camera mongoose use (next version up from mine) and the light box they use (could be set up a bit better in my opinion) and thats how im judging the pics as well with this glimour of knowledge.

the minis arnt what Mongoose hoped for, yes, mongoose feel their better than others currently on the market ? thats for them to choose not us unless we have them in out mitts, theu have stated that improvments will be made ? isnt that good enough for you ?

if you have had all these recieved and you looked at the modles (not pics) and felt they were ok,and you where asured buy 3rd parties the product was good to go, and you felt confident the product did its job, would you launch them or would you delay due to some comments by people who have seen some dodgy pics of a bad batch of figs that possably are not a good representation of the overal product ?

id launch them and watch the nay sayers backtrack later on and giggle :D
 
I can understand the points being made both by Pilgrim and Mr. Evil.

Bottom line, though - the products now being sold DO NOT look like we were told they would. If they did, the pictures would not have changed.

If people aren't entitled to feel disappointed and let down by that, then something has gone wrong somewhere.
 
tanks need a low profile and need to be no wider than a lorry so they can traverse urban enviroments,

I would suggest a quick visit to Bovington, Mr. E, to get a true sense of the size of these things. Better still, go on a tank driving course (if foe no other reason than its bloody good fun!!!!!)
 
Bottom line, though - the products now being sold DO NOT look like we were told they would. If they did, the pictures would not have changed.

TRUTH.

I did cancel my pre order. I would, however, really like to play this game. IF it looks like this bird might fly, I'll rebuy my order. If wave 2 is a step forward, it would also help...
 
Mr Evil said:
i never said its great, infact ive stated its not perfect, and ive been at the front line in complaining about the product, and from the start of the project i displayed my doubts that the product would be as people exspected it to be.
Mr Evil said:
No, not expected it to be, were told it was by the manufacturer - there is a difference, and that it what I am trying to point out, and why people seem dissapointed.

Mr Evil said:
im not in supprise, infact this was the sorta quality i thought would probably end up comming out.
Mr Evil said:
but not what Mongoose said they would be - again there is a difference

Mr Evil said:
but the tanks like challenger and abrahms are small on a games table, as its about focal point of view."

Here you have me at a loss, what are you going on about? I know how big a Challenger 2 is, as I have sat on one! I also have no problem with the BFE model scale

Mr Evil said:
look at a pic i put up a few pages ago and in an old post the hull comes to bellow shoulder hieght, tanks need a low profile and need to be no wider than a lorry so they can traverse urban enviroments, russian tanks are designed to fit into their underground system for example.
Mr Evil said:
I suggest you take a trip to Bovvy like DM suggested

Mr Evil said:
thing is these minis can be used from the day you buy them, unless you can swear blind you can get the minis painted in the time it takes you to get them home better than they come id be supprised, im a speedpainter and i paint for money and many people on the forum know my work, and i have to say from a painters perspective, their OK, and if i whant them to look better then i can add a bit of paint here and there, if im incapable of doing that then these minis must be better painted than i could achieve.
Mr Evil said:
Of course you can't paint them better in the car on the way home, but that is still not what MP said the product was about - remember, better than 90% etc?

Mr Evil said:
at the moment we are judging pictures of minis that have been taken digitly and displayed on a screen with the DPI being blown out, the pics are larger than the minis in some cases ! so anything bad is magnified (well on my screen any way)
Mr Evil said:
So which is it,
Mr Evil said:
i never said its great, infact ive stated its not perfect, and ive been at the front line in complaining about the product, and from the start of the project i displayed my doubts that the product would be as people exspected it to be.
Mr Evil said:
or the camera is poor on the second shots?

Mr Evil said:
f you wish to flame and judge a product shouldnt you first own it and be able to hold it ?
Mr Evil said:
No - I am not "Flaming a product" and I would like to see it myself, but MP through Matt has already stated the product is not what they were expecting and not up to standard. Further, I don't need to own a product before I can suggest that there has been a problem with it. I have never tried crystal meth or beastiality but I think from the evidence available I can hold a reasoned opinion against them.
 
think what has alot of people worried is on one day Matt says he wont be selling them, then a day later he says that he likes them. makes people think about whats going on.
 
I have never tried crystal meth or beastiality but I think from the evidence available I can hold a reasoned opinion against them.

Then you haven't lived Pil? :wink:

Never thought those topics would surface here... :P
 
katadder said:
think what has alot of people worried is on one day Matt says he wont be selling them, then a day later he says that he likes them. makes people think about whats going on.

It could be that they looked at a bunch more minis and decided they weren't so bad on average. It could be that they grew on him, like he said. It could be that they decided they couldn't take the economic crunch of not selling any minis at all while they tried to sort it out but decided not to come out and say that for some reason.

Personally, I don't think it matters. I'm not gonna cancel my pre-order for wave 1, and make my mind up when i've got some infantry and tanks in my hands. Like I said elsewhere, I'm more concerned about having to buy minis blind.
 
I agree with Pilgrim.

The tank size problem doesn't really bother me. GW tanks are actually smaller on the table top than they should be (Try fitting 10 marines in a rhino) not the opposite as Mr. Evil has alleged. But they are still out of scale. I don't know if GW has argued against this. It looks to me that the Mongoose tanks are out of scale to the figures too. I have been around a number of M1's and I know that they seem a lot bigger in comparrison to me than they do to the figures.

But none of that bothers me as much as the fact that the figures look like crap in the pictures. I'm looking at the TAB BAB-011 and BAB-001 packs on my desk right now. They are excellent look, character ful figures. They are also about $3 a figure and they still need to be painted. I can't do that today as I have other stuff going on and they aren't even primed yet, which given that it is raining here, isn't going to happen anytime soon.

So it would be nice to have some well pre-painted miniatures that cost about the same amount. Sure the preproduction ones weren't as good as I could do but they looked damn close. The actual figures weren't anywhere near that.

The bigger problem, to my mind, is that they had such a switch in attitude in one day. They went from these are crap and we aren't selling them to these are okay and we think that if you buy them we can make them better.

It reminds me of Ricki Ractman (sp?) on Headbangers ball when he would say "I didn't really like this song at first, but I listened to it enough times and now Virulent Stuffing is my favourite band."

It seems that they were going to do something about the quality and then they talked to the accountant and he told them that if they didn't get these figs sold by February they could all start looking for new jobs in march.
 
Mac V said:
I have never tried crystal meth or beastiality but I think from the evidence available I can hold a reasoned opinion against them.

Then you haven't lived Pil? :wink:

Never thought those topics would surface here... :P

lmao

so far this thread has mentioned fungus, mushrooms, crystal meths, beastiality and the emperorers new coat !!!!

i love life, its damn amusing, nearly as funny as tha arabs foomanchoo tash.... i so must own that mini.
 
Greetings all!

I'm back from my existential walk in the woods. I must say that it was quite refreshing. I suggest more folks try it (see my post a few pages back to take the journey for yourself).

I feel the need to speak to "Idealism". I'm a VERY idealistic person. I work for a para-military government agency where obedience to the chain of command gets you places. Over my career so far I could have followed the flock, obeyed without question, and by now made (at least) Sergeant. Instead I'm at the bottom of the pecking order. "Why" you ask. Well, I felt the need to shoot off my big mouth (I know this is hard to believe). I did this when I felt that something needed saying. I did this when I felt it was the Right Thing To Do! Now, I'm the Vice President of my labor union and my actual career has ground to the proverbial standstill. Do I care? Nope!

Why the explanation and boring personal history? To let you know I'm not a "company man" or "sellout". Why do I need to tell you this? Because I support Mongoose's decision to go ahead with BE.

I don't (obviously) know how much the company invested in the design, manufacturing, promotion, distribution, marketing, etc... of BE. I can only assume it is an enormous amount of capital. So, place yourself in the shoes of those who run Mongoose...

A Hard Day At Mongoose
a play in one act

The curtain raises to reveal two men sitting at a table at center stage. Their sleeves are rolled up and a steaming cup of tea sits in front of each man. One of the men, in his thirties, is holding his head in his hands, elbows on the table. He sighs. The other man takes a long pull on his pipe and sits back in his chair.

"Well Bob... have you seen the production runs of BE?"
"Yeah Jim, they're not as good as we'd hoped or promoted."
"I know... dang!" (actually this would be "bugger me" [they're Brits])
"We could pull the plug"
"Yup"
"How much have we spent thusfar?"
"Lots" (already covered, see above)
"Hmmm... the gamers will be ripped (ok, actually it would be "highly put out" [again, they're Brits and very polite as a rule])
"Yup, they will"
"But I'm a gamer too... I'm disappointed. I want to make the best product possible"
"Me too, if we go ahead, sales will take a hit"
"Sure. But if we flush this, we lose all of our investment and then don't have the capital to make it right"
"True"
"Lets go ahead with the product, take the hit, and use what we do make in sales to get the product where we intended to to go. The gamers will understand"
" I dunno, have you read the forums... some of these guys are killing us".
"Yeah... it hurts Bob. I''m not a bad guy"
"I know Jim, I know".
"It makes we wanna throw in the towel completely".
"Don't do that Bob, the alternative is working at WalMart"
"Egads! They don't even pay a working wage and manipulate labor laws to screw their employees!"
"I know!"
A quiet moment of pause settles over the room as Bob and Jim contemplate their next move.
"Jim"
"Yeah Bob"
"Jim"
"yeah Bob"
"I need a hug"
They hug (not in that way you pervs [not that there's anything wrong with that] get your minds out of the gutters. Eds.)
"When we get the numbers in for the first run Jim we'll make a push to make it better"
"That sounds good".
"Did you make that call to the Chinese manufacturer"
"Yeah"
"Well..."
"It got ugly"
"They said they control half of the world economy thanks to their intentional undervaluing of the yen. They told me to shove off!"
"Hmmm... that's a bugger"
"Yeah"
"Well don't worry Jim. Sooner or later that moron George W. Bush will invade China and then it'll be free dollies for everyone!"

Curtain


Thank you ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all week. Try the veal; it's delicious. Dont' forget to tip your waitress.

Jay
 
Another thing to think on,

Most of us have just been told abouth these "Great Rules", we have not been allowed to see them, or read them.

Oh we got a basic Move shoot win/lose sheet, but that is not the real rules.

No these Rules are not out until March, how do we show this great ruleset to off set the figs, without having the ruleset.


Lee
 
I don't think Bob and Jim would go in for group hugs more like "Sod em lets go down the pub and get bladdered". Then flip a coin to see who goes to see the bank manager in the morning to explain.
 
I presume by "Bob" you mean "Old Bear," and by "Jim" you mean "Matthew" :P

You could even have an American version with Bob as Ted and Jim as Alex, where Bob phones up the Chinese, it gets ugly, and he goes over there and scalps them all :twisted:
 
This thread is dead. All that needs top be said has been said (and more besides...). The same points are being raised the same fanatical counter points are being thrown back. Its not even really discussion any more.

Lets just let it be...

please...

:roll:
 
Lets be realistic, if the quality of prepainted miniatures was achievable to the quality boasted about originally then don't you think the likes of Tamiya, Dragon (O.K. they do 1/72nd WW2 and modern Armour as prepaints but not their figures), Revell would have jumped on the band wagon by now unless I have missed something, just think no more having to spend hours slaving over painting that latest model aircraft, ship, tank. A professional job every time first time straight out of the box save you hours on building that airforce, fleet or army you always wanted. I reckon someone in China may have boasted to Mongoose that it was possible but the results prove otherwise.
 
So let me get this straight, DaWarboss. You are using the fact that you have bad decision making capabilities the basis for your argument about why we should support this game.

Okay.

I would imagine the conversation at mongoose went more like this:

"Someone discovered the figs and now we're getting slagged off on frothers, TMP and even the people on our own forum's are turning against us. What're we gonna do?"

"Well they do look like crap, I didn't anticipate the reaction would be this bad. Let's see if we can get them fixed, I'll tell them we'll get them fixed."

A little later . . .

"Did you call China."

"Yep."

"What did they say?"

"Bad news, they won't fix 'em. Even if they would they said it would take months to gear up the production to do it."

"Well people have said on the website that they'll wait months, let's take that option, these things are crap."

"Well, that's the other thing. "

"What's that?"

"I also called Bob (the accountant) and he said if we can't sell at least 25% of these things we're sunk."

"Hmm, you know what, these things don't look so bad after all. Old Glory sells clown figures, maybe we can market them as googly eyed evil clown minions."

"Not a bad idea, what kind of tank should the clown faction have?"

"Umm, aren't they all clown faction?"
 
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