Update on Armies of the Fifth Frontier War

[Ewan]

@MongooseMatt is Invasion still on track for a july release. Thanks

 

[boggo2300]

If it can be computer controlled without a body inside it its a robot.

Autonomous battle dress - battle dress that can act without a sophont wearing it. It's a robot by any definition of robot.

so ships are robots, vehicles are robots, smart weapons are robots, just no.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Technically, yes. Robots do not need to be humanoid, they just need to be autonomous mechanical/electronic machines.

A ship that can operate without a crew is a robot, a vehicle that can operate without a driver is a robot, smart weapons that can make autonomous targeting decisions with no human oversight are all robots.

So I asked copilot:

"A robot is broadly defined as a machine capable of carrying out complex actions automatically, often programmable and sometimes able to interact with its environment. While many people picture humanoid robots, like those in sci-fi movies, robots come in all shapes and forms—industrial arms assembling cars, autonomous drones, robotic vacuum cleaners, and even tiny medical bots working inside the human body.

The key features of a robot generally include:

• Sensors: To perceive its surroundings.
• Processing Unit: To make decisions and execute actions.
• Actuators: To move or manipulate objects.
• Autonomy of Control: It can operate independently or follow programmed instructions."

 

[Terry Mixon]

From Singularity:

"they are reconstituted into various bodies: robots, clones, androids, and in one case, autonomous suits of battle dress!"

"And in a few cases, compromised avatars, drones, and even suits of intelligent battle dress"

certainly look like robots to me...

I would hate to see FFW canon directly contradict Singularity canon...

Those in Singularity are likely using the new rules. I like the idea of robotic battle dress.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Technically, yes. Robots do not need to be humanoid, they just need to be autonomous mechanical/electronic machines.

A ship that can operate without a crew is a robot, a vehicle that can operate without a driver is a robot, smart weapons that can make autonomous targeting decisions with no human oversight are all robots.

So I asked copilot:

"A robot is broadly defined as a machine capable of carrying out complex actions automatically, often programmable and sometimes able to interact with its environment. While many people picture humanoid robots, like those in sci-fi movies, robots come in all shapes and forms—industrial arms assembling cars, autonomous drones, robotic vacuum cleaners, and even tiny medical bots working inside the human body.

The key features of a robot generally include:

• Sensors: To perceive its surroundings.
• Processing Unit: To make decisions and execute actions.
• Actuators: To move or manipulate objects.
• Autonomy of Control: It can operate independently or follow programmed instructions."

Technically, a ship that is controlled by a robot installed inside it (a subtle distinction) is a drone ship, even when the robotic brain is hardwired in and in total control.

 

[MasterGwydion]

In Traveller, I'd say, if it doesn't have a Brain, as defined in the Robot Handbook, then it is not a robot. Normal Battledress is not autonomous, but if you add a Brain, it could be. Same with a Vehicle or Starship.

 

[boggo2300]

well I am now 100% not buying Singularity, this sound awful to me

 

[Terry Mixon]

well I am now 100% not buying Singularity, this sound awful to me

To each their own, but the changes are coming to the rules anyway, it seems. I'm pretty pleased with what I've seen of Singularity so far.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

From Singularity:

"they are reconstituted into various bodies: robots, clones, androids, and in one case, autonomous suits of battle dress!"

"And in a few cases, compromised avatars, drones, and even suits of intelligent battle dress"

certainly look like robots to me...

I would hate to see FFW canon directly contradict Singularity canon...

Seems like with Singularity (which I have never seen) SOME Battledress constitutes robots and some do not. Can the robotic ones be worn or are they just robotic? How do they behave differently when worn compared to "normal" battledress?

 

[AndrewW]

Your car probably has power steering (if you drive) that doesn't make it a robot. You initiate everything a mechanism reacts to your action to assist it, it does nothing on its own. So your car is not a robot. A "Johnny Cab" (from Total Recall) is a robot. Your car with driver assist software is not.

Is it still a robot if you rip out Johnny and drive it yourself?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Seems like with Singularity (which I have never seen) SOME Battledress constitutes robots and some do not. Can the robotic ones be worn or are they just robotic? How do they behave differently when worn compared to "normal" battledress?

We haven't seen that part either. My guess is that it is meant to be used without people, but time will tell.

 

[boggo2300]

Is it still a robot if you rip out Johnny and drive it yourself?

nope, then it's a TESLA!

 

[boggo2300]

seems like an inefficient way of making a combat robot to me

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Is it still a robot if you rip out Johnny and drive it yourself?

Nope. It becomes a lousy self destructive car.

 

[boggo2300]

Nope. It becomes a lousy self destructive car.

thats what I said!

 

[Sigtrygg]

Technically, a ship that is controlled by a robot installed inside it (a subtle distinction) is a drone ship, even when the robotic brain is hardwired in and in total control.

It's a pointless technicality. Is the ship being controlled by a computerised "brain", is it autonamous... it's a robot.

On the one hand people argue that a drone is not a robot as it is human controlled, now you are saying an autonomous ship is a drone?

We spend an awful lot of time discussing these things, meanwhile non-humanoid robots are all around us in the real world now.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In Traveller, I'd say, if it doesn't have a Brain, as defined in the Robot Handbook, then it is not a robot. Normal Battledress is not autonomous, but if you add a Brain, it could be. Same with a Vehicle or Starship.

How is a robot brain different from a computer running exactly the same software?

 

[Sigtrygg]

well I am now 100% not buying Singularity, this sound awful to me

It's probably the best Traveller campaign ever imagined.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Seems like with Singularity (which I have never seen) SOME Battledress constitutes robots and some do not. Can the robotic ones be worn or are they just robotic? How do they behave differently when worn compared to "normal" battledress?

I would imagine it is a suit of high TL battle dress with its own AI - call it a robot brain or call it a computer emulating a robot brain. I fail to see what the difference is between a robot brain and a computer running exactly the same software.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Can the battledress move around autonomously and act autonomously or does it only react to augment the motions of the wearer? If the former it is a robot, if the later it is not.

From Singularity's use of the word autonomous I would say the former.

We have F16 s today that are piloted by computer AI and do not need human supervision.

Your car probably has power steering (if you drive) that doesn't make it a robot.

No, but if at the push of a button the car can drive itself autonomously then it is a robot.

You initiate everything a mechanism reacts to your action to assist it, it does nothing on its own. So your car is not a robot. A "Johnny Cab" (from Total Recall) is a robot. Your car with driver assist software is not.

But a self driving car is a robot, what are they called again...

I read somewhere that the data from Tesla AIs are being used to train Optimus robots.

Optimus (robot) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org