Unwinnable tournament scenario - Who Dares Wins Game 1

[nezeray]

Who're you calling "the tools"?

I don't like the scenario this early in the release schedule.

James / Nezeray
USMC and PLA player

 

[Mr Evil]

lol

luv it when you get all worked up and start throwing your toys out of the pram makes winding you up a pleasure lol

you do realise im winding you up dont you ? lol

i said a while back personaly i think they should just run a simple tourney, this one seems a bit flash and to non normal games rules heavy, one reason im not gonna play, wich is lucky as i got to install my caravan at Glasto that saturday morning.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

Don't crank the key too hard Evil ya might break the spring

 

[Captain_Nemo]

For this 750 point scenario that LBH has let us know about here is what I have re-thought

Yep That's right, I have just re-read the Victory Conditions!!!!

And Boy are we Frakkin BLIND. As the Defender; All you need to do is keep your units alive! Athough it won't be at all Easy. Still it can't be too bad either depending, of course, on the terrain the enemy's dice rolls and, your skill.

Remember Khafji? them poor Jarheads got stuck in the city and, continued their mission as Recon Teams anyway, doing a lot of good too.

Anyway, move, Move, MOVE. Do not engage, repeat, do NOT engage!

DO this right you WILL NOT WIN as the Defender, but, you can pull a Draw. Not a win to be sure but for this hairy ass frikkin mission a Draw is good enough.

Now to find someone to playtest my theory with MUAHAHAHAHAA.

:twisted:

 

[Mr Evil]

sounds good, with only infantry and not using your guns just think of your low carbon footprint your making, there is a moral victory in that may not win the war but you did your bit to save the earth.

 

[nezeray]

sounds good, with only infantry and not using your guns just think of your low carbon footprint your making, there is a moral victory in that may not win the war but you did your bit to save the earth.

Thanks Captain Planet! :lol:

Nezeray

 

[lastbesthope]

For this 750 point scenario that LBH has let us know about here is what I have re-thought

Yep That's right, I have just re-read the Victory Conditions!!!!

And Boy are we Frakkin BLIND. As the Defender; All you need to do is keep your units alive! Athough it won't be at all Easy. Still it can't be too bad either depending, of course, on the terrain the enemy's dice rolls and, your skill.

Damnit Nemo you're right I was blind.

Glad I swallowed my pride and raised the point on the forums.



LBH

 

[cordas]

For this 750 point scenario that LBH has let us know about here is what I have re-thought

Yep That's right, I have just re-read the Victory Conditions!!!!

And Boy are we Frakkin BLIND. As the Defender; All you need to do is keep your units alive! Athough it won't be at all Easy. Still it can't be too bad either depending, of course, on the terrain the enemy's dice rolls and, your skill.

Damnit Nemo you're right I was blind.

Glad I swallowed my pride and raised the point on the forums.



LBH

Errr if you can keep all your squads intact and stop your opponent simply driving off the other board edge you can win.... Thats a rather tall order unless you have half the board covered in terrain and out of LOS so your troops can't be shot at. As soon as your guys can be shot at they are going to start to die... Are there any rules regarding when a vehicle is worth half VPs, or is it simply alive or dead.

Oh and as for elevated firing position yes it does mean a tank out in the open can be target hit, so all the attackers has to do is keep it obscured at least and he is considerably safer, the defender is down to a couple of shots a turn per squad that if roll a 5 or 6 which can force a 2+/3+ save.

 

[Gibbs]

So all the EFTF player needs to do is take SAS and keep them in an ambush mode for the whole game and maybe run around with a fireteam to get the enemy to try to target something?

 

[cordas]

So all the EFTF player needs to do is take SAS and keep them in an ambush mode for the whole game and maybe run around with a fireteam to get the enemy to try to target something?

Models that are in ambush and not on the table, count towards you being shattered untill you put them on the table. However as long as you deploy them any time before you remove the casualties that shatter you, you won't be shattered.

If the defending player doesn't loose any units (or have any reduced to half strength), and the attacker drives off the other edge of the table then the battle is a draw.... If the attack gets lucky and reduces a squad to half strength and then drives off the table he has won.

 

[lastbesthope]

Ahh but does shattering apply in the tournament scenarios. The Victory Conditions are VP based, not shatter point based.

There's one to ask Matthew.

LBH

 

[Gibbs]

I love it when people find all sorts of loop holes.

 

[cordas]

Ahh but does shattering apply in the tournament scenarios. The Victory Conditions are VP based, not shatter point based.

There's one to ask Matthew.

LBH

It is clarified in the rule book, page 13. Last paragraph...

The scenarios found later in this book feature their own victory conditions which may have nothing to do with shattering their enemies. The shattering rule is used for simple engagements where both armies are trying to wipe each other out.

Unless their are different rules for the tournament then the EFTF can never lose this scenario if they choose to take nothing but SAS and leave them in ambush for the entire game. Rather a cheesy and unsatisfying tactic I would think...

 

[Gibbs]

And not having AT weaponry in infantry to be able to successfully defend isn't? :wink:

 

[John Wall]

Unless their are different rules for the tournament then the EFTF can never lose this scenario if they choose to take nothing but SAS and leave them in ambush for the entire game. Rather a cheesy and unsatisfying tactic I would think...

But spending an entire game being shot at with no response is satisfying? Lets face it, when having troops survive to fight in a later senario matters and may help you win that later senario, anything that keeps your troops alive is a valid tactic. I don't like that this senario is in the tournament precisely because it could be this one sided. Even if I did have to have a unit on the table, I'd be seriously tempted to retreat them off the table for precisely this reason.

Still, with some attention as to who plays each other in the first round, it could be a decent game.

 

[cordas]

As I have stated since the start of this article I think this sucks, and that MGP have dropped the ball including this scenario in the tournament before all the factions are able to take both sides and have a hope of winning.

I am mearly stating that as an EFTF player I would find using the tactic of deploying ONLY SAS, and leaving all my SAS in ambush for the entire length of the game to force a draw, to be a cheesy and unsatisfying tactic.

I would actually rather just conceed the scenario and try a different one.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Ahh but does shattering apply in the tournament scenarios. The Victory Conditions are VP based, not shatter point based.

There's one to ask Matthew.

LBH

It is clarified in the rule book, page 13. Last paragraph...

The scenarios found later in this book feature their own victory conditions which may have nothing to do with shattering their enemies. The shattering rule is used for simple engagements where both armies are trying to wipe each other out.

Unless their are different rules for the tournament then the EFTF can never lose this scenario if they choose to take nothing but SAS and leave them in ambush for the entire game. Rather a cheesy and unsatisfying tactic I would think...

except you have to build your force using the platoon lists in the rulebook, so you're limited to 1 SAS section per infantry section/tank

 

[John Wall]

except you have to build your force using the platoon lists in the rulebook, so you're limited to 1 SAS section per infantry section/tank

Thats not quite true. You must build your 3,500 point force according to the army lists in the book. To quote the tournament pack:

All units must be drawn from your main army list. The forces used in these scenarios need not follow the restrictions of the army list you use from the Advanced Rulebook.

So the 2 SAS tactic will work. Personally I'd hope to agree a draw with my opponent (much as Cordas suggests), then play a warmup game whilst waiting for everyone to play their game. Not much in the spirit of a tournament but a reasonable compromise.

 

[lastbesthope]

except you have to build your force using the platoon lists in the rulebook, so you're limited to 1 SAS section per infantry section/tank

Thats not quite true. You must build your 3,500 point force according to the army lists in the book. To quote the tournament pack:

John has it right, only the 3500 point list must conform to the force construction rules, not the individual forces selected for each scenario. I asked Matt by email and posted his response here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27887&start=15

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

Poll started here to gather a consensus

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=406292#406292

LBH