Unwinnable tournament scenario - Who Dares Wins Game 1

[lastbesthope]

Hi all,

I'm putting this none out on the forum as I've mulled it over enough and can't find a solution to the problem.

The first game in the upcoming BF:Evo - Who Dares Wins tournament at Mongoose next Saturday (16th June, places still available I think) is the Rolling Thunder Scenario from the Advanced Rulebook.

Remember that only up to and including Wave 3 forces will be available at the tournament.

It will be a 750 point game, random selection of attacker/defender.

The defender must choose forces with a move score of less than 6. The attacker must choose forces with a mov score of 6 or more.

In the tournament, you may wait until you know your opponent's force before selecting your 750 point army from your 3500 point tournament army list.

Now here's the problem. If an EFTF or USMC player is the defender in the scenario.

Given that the defender must choose forces with a move score of 6 or less, the EFTF are limited to British Infantry and SAS during the tourney, and the USMC are limited to Infantry and Force Recon.

Neither of these forces has any real anti-armour option, the USMC have no weapon that can roll higher than a 7 (9 in an elevated position against Armoured vehicles) and the EFTF have the same restriction, although an SAS Barrett could conceivably roll an 11 against a Shadow or technical from an elevated position or a 9 normally.

So if either of these forces were to be deployed against a PLA attacker, were the attacker to field 2 Type 99 tanks, the defender would be unable to even damage the attacker's forces unless they attain an elevated firing position.

The only possible defensive option would be to buy minefields, though at 250 points per 12" square, a defender would need to field 3 to have any real chance against an attacker, and that is almost 1/4 of the total army list for the tournament, for a 50/50 chance of being the defender in one game, it seems a little harsh.

So unless I'm missing something, the EFTF or USMC cold have an fairly unwinnable first game. Anyone got any other ideas on how to defend with the EFTF or USMC?

The same problem is not so serious for the PLA or MEA as they at least have anti-tank capable infantry (They have weapons with d10s)

LBH

 

[cordas]

Sounds like a bit of a cock-up to me..... Either that or get some of those magical D6 that have 12 sides

 

[Hiromoon]

Shame those stinger troops aren't available at the moment...

 

[lastbesthope]

Matt has said they're not completely defenceless, and I think I've found al the possible tactics (Elevated ground and minefields) but that seems a little too one sided for me.

ANyone else have any ideas?

LBH

 

[cordas]

Matt has said they're not completely defenceless, and I think I've found al the possible tactics (Elevated ground and minefields) but that seems a little too one sided for me.

ANyone else have any ideas?

LBH

Hmmm, yes elevated ground and mine fields can hurt vehicles, its really just a case of the EFTF and USMC can hope that their opponent looses as there is nothing they can do to win the scenario. Which to me doesn't sound like much fun....

 

[cordas]

You could try blindfolding your opponent and spinning him round really fast.... Then hope he drives off the wrong board edge.....

 

[nezeray]

Hey, doesn't the defender get to set up terrain? Just have a HUGE ravine or range of mountains the width of the board.

I DARE you to cross this line ... that happens to be impassible terrain.

*Half of cheating is setting up terrain*

 

[Mr Evil]

dont take usmc or eftf personaly id go PLA

 

[The Old Soldier]

Well, you could ask them to allow you to use troop and vehicle types but limit thier movement to 5" instead of what they have on the card. Otherwise I would say MP made a real cock up not paying attention to their game.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

Here's my take on it.

1. Don't get distracted from the following plan (Keep your shit wired tight)

2. Make sure that there is a buttload of terrain on the table.

3. Keep your Infantry as close to being out of LOS as you can and move Forward aggressively for 2 maybe 3 turns Just move and hide.

4. Assault his troops and stay mixed up with them enough that you can keep the bastards within Fire Zone radius for the tanks guns and MG's.

5. Kill his infantry, all of them! This is where Grenades make up their cost Drop his Numbers so fast that his head spins

That's what I would do. I think I'll try it this coming week. Let me know if you try it too!

Edit: For those of you that play like I do the idea of no infantry in an assault is well kinda loopy, but, To my chagrin I know guys that play "the Game Rules" they suck the life out of perfectly good games by laying out open terrain and using the biggest baddest thing they can find in an army list

so here is a couple amendments.

For the USMC well brothers our lives blow in this game, so far, we have tanks (not allowed in this scenario however) but other than that we ain't got doodly squat so buy some mines and place them at the most likely entrance points. The plus side is that they don't have a Deployment Zone the come on the board on their turn so pick the terrain side that gives any tank using mutts the most narrow entry points and stack the mines from there. Try to place them at intersections would be best.
Good Hunting Marine!

Now the EFTF, you guys are bit better off, along with mines you can buy a Command Squad, by itself that allows you to buy Heavy Arty plus the mines. Nice, huh? I don't need to go into the possibilities there, I'm sure that you can handle it on your own.

As a last thought, I would not spend all my squads away and kill them off I'd fight like hell and get off the board at the last minute. Just my thing though.... Let him think that he's won, we can cap him later.

 

[Gibbs]

A couple of issues to work out for the defenders too; if you take a PLA force or a EFTF force as an assault force; you can used mechanised infantry. Conceivably the attacker could actually sit back in APCs and run rampant with tanks... it's a worry.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

Gibbs, That's kind of what I was trying to get at; out of the 4 factions though the USMC is the worst off.

Mongoose should provide two balanced armies for this scenario at this stage in the Game's Deploytment rather than start talking **** about how it's up to the players' ingenuity etc. etc. etc.

So yes, this scenario sucks for now. As more stuff becomes available I'm certain that it will be one of my favorites. Forlorn Hope scenarios and Last Stands have always gotten me going. Leonidas at Thermopylae, Roland at Roncesvalles, the Anglo-Saxons at Maldon, Travis at the Alamo, Ricky Schoeder and the Lost Battalion OK they won that one but you get the picture.

Damn! Time to change my tagline.

 

[cordas]

4. Assault his troops and stay mixed up with them enough that you can keep the bastards within Fire Zone radius for the tanks guns and MG's.

5. Kill his infantry, all of them! This is where Grenades make up their cost Drop his Numbers so fast that his head spins

Any infantry that the attacker takes HAVE to be in transports, if he even bothers to take any (its not mandatory in the scenario)... So its perfectly reasonable that he simply takes vehicles. Are their any tourney rules that say you have to spend your full points allocation as the attacker? If not then as the attacker you could just make "do" with APCs (if you have them) and tanks and watch the enemy infantry melt.

With the victory points brief to win you simply rush any soft skin transports off the defenders table edge whilst doing your best to avoid getting them shot at (or use their range advantage to snipe), and send your hard skinned vehicles (APCs and Tanks) to go and destroy the infantry. MEA and PLA can fight back against the armoured vehicles with their AT weapons, the EFTF and USMC have no choice but to take a world of hurt.

 

[Gibbs]

I can see a USMC player now...

It hurts in my everywhere!

 

[lastbesthope]

4. Assault his troops and stay mixed up with them enough that you can keep the bastards within Fire Zone radius for the tanks guns and MG's.

5. Kill his infantry, all of them! This is where Grenades make up their cost Drop his Numbers so fast that his head spins

And against a PLA attacker who has taken 2 Type 99 tanks and not bothered with any infantry?

As for your comments on mines, to cover one side of the board would require 6 12" by 12" mine squares, prohibitively expensive for your army list even if you knew you were going to be defending which you don't.

As for heavy artillery, it rolls 2xD6+1, maximum roll of 7, so absolutely no use against tanks whatsoever.

Anyone more ideas anyone?

LBH

 

[Gibbs]

Collaborate? :lol:

Seriously though, as a marine player you'd be forced to actually try to create a bottle neck using terrain (ideally using tall buildings). Then use recon marines to rain down grenades onto the enemy armour from above. Ovbiuosly you'll need to roll five or sixes and hope that you can get enough hits and failed armour saves to take them out. That and minefields in the bottleneck would really give you a nasty edge in combat

 

[emperorpenguin]

As for heavy artillery, it rolls 2xD6+1, maximum roll of 7, so absolutely no use against tanks whatsoever.
LBH

You don't add the Heavy Artillery dice together? That's stupid, heavy artillery will make a mess out of a tank's top armour......... :roll:

 

[Reborn]

As for heavy artillery, it rolls 2xD6+1, maximum roll of 7, so absolutely no use against tanks whatsoever.
LBH

You don't add the Heavy Artillery dice together? That's stupid, heavy artillery will make a mess out of a tank's top armour......... :roll:

Very true, especially if it's ICM, and double especially if it's on a Zulfiqar.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I've just noticed how poor anti-tank mines are too, only a D10?
Tanks should be more vulnerable to hits from above and below, not less so!

 

[Valen is my name]

sounds like most big weapons arent very good against tanks. maybe they are planning on making anti-tank guns and want to make us realise how much we need them?