Understanding Spirit Magic

[preacher65]

Firstly, I want to say that as an old-time RQ2 and RQ3 player, I've only just started playing MRQ2, and never got to play MRQ1. I like MRQ2 a lot, and I'm really pleased that there's a good RQ-based game for Glorantha, as HQ never really appealed. I've looked through the rules for MRQ1, though, and like the update to MRQ2, which seems much more balanced, and also IMHO more true to the spirit of the original. My regular group has just started a Second Age campaign, and I'm looking forward to it immensely.

I decided to try playing a shaman character, but am struggling with some of the Spirit Magic rules. I'm hoping someone can help!

(1) Ancestor Spirits: These cannot be bound into fetishes, so it seems they have two main purposes. The first is to answer questions about events they have knowledge of. The second is to possess the petitioner, granting use of skills and heroic abilities. Since this is a dominant possession, it seems something that would be done very rarely, since it's (a) quite powerful, (b) quite difficult, and (c) quite risky, putting the spirit in control of the shaman's body. Both of these uses are interesting, but likely to come up infrequently during play. Are there other uses for Ancestor spirits that I've missed?

(2) Bane, Curse, Guardian and Sickness Spirits: The rules give the POW of these spirits as a rolled value "and up", for example Guardian Spirits have "3d6 upwards". How do these values relate to the rules for starting shaman characters, which give two Intensity 1 spirits or one Intensity 2 spirit to a new shaman? (Character creation seems to be the only time these spirits need an Intensity rating, is it also relevant during later play?)

(3) Elemental Spirits: These can manifest powers within the shaman's own body. Is this the only way a shaman can use them, or can he also release them to act as normal elementals? And back to starting shamans, does each cubic metre of size count as one point of Intensity?

(4) Intellect, Magic and Power Spirits: Will these exist in MRQ2?

(5) Starting Shamans: The rules for starting shamans also say that only one spirit can be bound into a fetish (it actually says "fetch", but I think that's been errata'ed). If I have two Intensity 1 spirits, one is in a fetish, is the other just following me around, and if so how do I draw on its powers?

(6) Spirit Cults: The example cult in the rulebook only offers Ancestor Spirits, Guardian Spirits and Salamanders to its followers. Are these the only types of spirit available to a shaman follower, or just the only ones available through his cult?

Lastly, there have been a couple of good posts here with examples of spirits, but I could really use a few more ideas and guidelines for creating my own! 8) Will there be more on Spirit Magic in later supplements? And do any other players/GMs have anything they could share?

Thanks all.

 

[Cassius]

I to would like some of these answered.

For the most part im really impressed with MRQ2 and love the concept of how spirit magic works now but imo the spirit magic section is to vague and needs fleshing out a bit

 

[Antalon]

I decided to try playing a shaman character, but am struggling with some of the Spirit Magic rules. I'm hoping someone can help!

I'll give it a go. I've also added my own clarifications that I have gleaned from asking questions of the developers.


[(1) Ancestor Spirits: These cannot be bound into fetishes, so it seems they have two main purposes. The first is to answer questions about events they have knowledge of. The second is to possess the petitioner, granting use of skills and heroic abilities. Since this is a dominant possession, it seems something that would be done very rarely, since it's (a) quite powerful, (b) quite difficult, and (c) quite risky, putting the spirit in control of the shaman's body. Both of these uses are interesting, but likely to come up infrequently during play. Are there other uses for Ancestor spirits that I've missed?

I can't think of any others, maybe we will see some examples in future supplements.

(2) Bane, Curse, Guardian and Sickness Spirits: The rules give the POW of these spirits as a rolled value "and up", for example Guardian Spirits have "3d6 upwards". How do these values relate to the rules for starting shaman characters, which give two Intensity 1 spirits or one Intensity 2 spirit to a new shaman? (Character creation seems to be the only time these spirits need an Intensity rating, is it also relevant during later play?)

Pete's confirmed that all spirits have an intensity: to calculate the Intensity of a spirit (for purposes of creating a Shaman character) then up to 12 POW equals intensity 1, 13 – 18 is 2, 18 -24 is 3, 25 – 30 is 4 etc.

(3) Elemental Spirits: These can manifest powers within the shaman's own body. Is this the only way a shaman can use them, or can he also release them to act as normal elementals? And back to starting shamans, does each cubic metre of size count as one point of Intensity?

See above re intensity. I don't know on your other point. I don't see why not, just that the Spirit magician will need a suitable quantity of material to make up the elemental's body.

(4) Intellect, Magic and Power Spirits: Will these exist in MRQ2?

Hopefully Monster Colliseum will reveal this

(5) Starting Shamans: The rules for starting shamans also say that only one spirit can be bound into a fetish (it actually says "fetch", but I think that's been errata'ed). If I have two Intensity 1 spirits, one is in a fetish, is the other just following me around, and if so how do I draw on its powers?

It does mean fetish. I'd treat this as being a spirit with whom the Shaman has negotiated a service. Depending upon the spirit, it could be waiting at a 'holy' site - some geographic feature or place that represents the spirit - or could accompany the Shaman by travelling in the spirit world. I'm not sure whether this may result in additional 'encounters' of other denizens of the spirit world or defence magics from the mundane would

(6) Spirit Cults: The example cult in the rulebook only offers Ancestor Spirits, Guardian Spirits and Salamanders to its followers. Are these the only types of spirit available to a shaman follower, or just the only ones available through his cult?

Only through this cult - I think the types of spirit cults is very wide, depending upon the gameworld.

Lastly, there have been a couple of good posts here with examples of spirits, but I could really use a few more ideas and guidelines for creating my own! 8) Will there be more on Spirit Magic in later supplements? And do any other players/GMs have anything they could share?

No idea - I find setting out the background of a spirit helpful: what it is, what its 'essence' or purpose is, whether it is revered or feared and how it is 'worshiped' or exploited. I may post some if I get time.

Thanks all.

No problem. Here are my own notes on spirits:

The Fetch
 A character must usually be of Shaman rank in their cult before obtaining (questing for) a Fetch
 Fetch stats. The stat block at the top of page 140 is the basic stats for a new Fetch
 A Fetch with the Discorporate skill and Possession trait may engage mundane corporeal souls in spirit combat, and if successful possess the physical body (pg 140-141)

The spirit plane
 Movement on the spirit plane is abstract and open to GM fiat, its likely creatures move at a fixed rate (20 m/round) or perhaps at a rate equal to POW m/round

Spirits - general
 Intensity of spirits. To calculate the Intensity of a spirit (for purposes of creating a Shaman character) then up to 12 POW equals intensity 1, 13 – 18 is 2, 18 -24 is 3, 25 – 30 is 4 etc.
 Most non-Shaman are limited to spells that may drive away or shield a character from attack by a spirit

Discorporation and spirit combat
 The skill Discorporation allows spirits to pierce the barrier between the spirit world and material world, regardless of which side they are on. It enabes spirits to affect living corporeal beings. Discorporation, in effect, follows the same principles and mechanics as the High Shaman’s Spirit Walking skill.
 A spirit can make a discorporation attack from the physical or spirit plane. If from the physical plane (for example when bound to a fetish), the spirit is vulnerable and may be blocked by anti-magic spells (see using and defending from spirits below), or anti-spirit spells. If from the spirit plane you cannot directly affect the spirit, merely hold it at bay with anti-spirit spells
 A free spirit can only discorporate from the Spirit Plane. A spirit tied to the mundane world - however that might be; fetish, magic or otherwise - can use its discorporate to drag an opponent's soul onto the spirit plane, as long as it has the Discorporate skill. Disease spirits, for example, are tied to the physical world through the physical representations of their disease (the symptoms) and their worshippers, like Malia in Glorantha.
 Any attempt to discorporate a target requires the spirit to:
o Be at ‘engagement’ distance (i.e. be able to ‘touch’ the target)
o successfully match their Discorporation skill against the target’s persistence, if successful the target’s soul is dragged to the spirit world and spirit combat is initiated
 “Okay, imagine this scenario. Grunwald the Unwary is wandering through a broo tomb somewhere in Prax. He uncovers the rotten remains of Mistress Ghast, Malia High Priestess. Her horns are the fetish for her Creeping Chills disease spirit fetch. Grunwald, fancying some new horns for his helmet, seizes the skull...

The disease spirit immediately attacks, attempting a Discorporate. It matches its Discorporate 75% against Grunwald's Persistence 65% and wins. Grunwald's soul is now on the Spirit Plane, with the disease spirit, and about to go down with the nastiest disease of his life. As he has no Spirit Binding skill, he cannot resist combat (only with half his raw Persistence skill:142) and the within seconds he is completely infected with the Creeping Chills disease. On the material world his physical body begins to shake and shudder, exploding in horrid boils as the disease spirit takes effect. Within a few seconds, Grunwald is dead. On the spirit plane he had no magic to fend off the spirit, and no combat skill that he could use either. The disease is bound to the material world, but it can discorporate back to the spirit plane to wreck havoc.

This is what makes spirits so utterly, utterly nasty. Unless you have some anti-spirit magic, or a shaman, or a bound spirit of your own, you can be completely bleeding stuffed if a malevolent spirit successfully discorporates you. And bound spirits can do just that from the material world, returning to their binding afterwards to do it all over again.”





Spirits (bound or free-willed) – using them and defending from them
 It costs a Combat Action to release a bound spirit, and requires a successful Spirit Binding test costing 1 MP to command the spirit
 A spirit practitioner, must use the spirit walking skill to see his own released spirits if he doesn't have a fetch or other magic allowing him to see, such as Second Sight
 A spirit in the material world must be directly observable to be targeted – this is only possible if it can be seen using Spirit Walking or a spell, such as Second Sight
 A spirit in summoned to the mundane world or released from a fetish is vulnerable to magical effects or damage
 A bound spirit resides primarily on the material world because it is bound to a fetish or other binding object. It can discorporate to the spirit world to do its shaman's bidding but will return to its place of binding. It can return to the spirit world but simply can't do so at will
 Spirits can be recalled into a fetish (probably costs a Combat Action) and therefore become safe from further attack
 Spirits may be affected by:
o Other spirits (such as bane spirits)
o ‘Anti-magic’ spells – countermagic, dismiss magic and neutralize magic – these affect the spirit directly but temporarily , they do not affect the powers it may grant the spirit user (for example ‘savage snip’ power, temporarily drive off the spirit, or force it back into its fetch. However, in this case because the spirit is itself a sentient being you should give it a Persistence roll to resist the effect.
o The intensity of the spirit is used to determine whether the Dismiss or Neutralise Magic spell can affect the spirit (also requiring an opposed persistence check by the spirit)?
o Nothing stops the shaman from simply calling back the spirit on his next action, save for the expenditure of a magic point. Just like nothing stops any caster from recasting a dismissed spell on his next action. If the anti-magic spell has a duration then the spirit is driven away until the spell elapses.
o Anti-magic spells cannot be used as a reaction to drive off the spirit if it tries to Discorporate a character. If the magician successfully resists the discorporation and can see the spirit and the spirit is on the material plane - then he can try to dismiss the spirit on his next turn.
o Spells that deal magical damage harm the spirits MPs (in place of HPs)

Antalon.

 

[preacher65]

Thanks Antalon, that's extremely helpful.

12 POW equals intensity 1, 13 – 18 is 2

That makes perfect sense given the rules for nature spirits.

Only through this cult - I think the types of spirit cults is very wide, depending upon the gameworld.

Thanks. At first the description of the spirit cult in the book seemed very lacking in options, but I was assuming that the shaman was only allowed to access the spirit types listed for the cult. But what you've said makes much more sense.

No idea - I find setting out the background of a spirit helpful: what it is, what its 'essence' or purpose is, whether it is revered or feared and how it is 'worshiped' or exploited. I may post some if I get time.

Please do if you can. I'm beginning to get my head around the ideas but examples would be useful. It's easy with divine cults and sorcery, because I've used the RQ3 versions, but spirit magic of this kind didn't exist in earlier rules. It's a great addition and I love the atmosphere and flavour of it, but I'm the kind of player/GM who likes to understand the rules as well.

Here are my own notes on spirits

Also very helpful, thanks!

If any of the devs are reading this, could you drop some hints as to whether we'll be seeing more on spirit magic in any of the coming supplements? :wink:

 

[preacher65]

I know it's cheeky to ask, but I see Loz is on the forums and was hoping for some dev input into some of these questions 8)

 

[Loz]

Some of the answers Antalon posted came from me, so I may have indirectly addressed some of your questions already. However, I'm happy to address the first questions posed. And forgive Pete and I for not doing so earlier; we're both very busy, and intend to answer all such posts, but sometimes just don't get round to it as fast as we'd like...

1) Ancestor Spirits: These cannot be bound into fetishes, so it seems they have two main purposes. The first is to answer questions about events they have knowledge of. The second is to possess the petitioner, granting use of skills and heroic abilities. Since this is a dominant possession, it seems something that would be done very rarely, since it's (a) quite powerful, (b) quite difficult, and (c) quite risky, putting the spirit in control of the shaman's body. Both of these uses are interesting, but likely to come up infrequently during play. Are there other uses for Ancestor spirits that I've missed?

You're right, they are infrequent uses. But there are a number of things I reckon are worth considering.

Ancestors are venerated in a similar manner to gods - somtimes in place of gods. One doesn't continually invoke one's god; instead, your behaviour modifies according to your god's nature and you channel his magic through your spells. Same with ancestors. Through veneration you hope to emulate their greatness and deeds, and become an ancestor yourself. You'll go them occasionally for help, but the spiritual relationship is the important part. It defines you. Your daily interaction with the spirit world will be with those spirits you're capable of controlling; but your relationship and approach is defined through those ancestors you venerate. This makes ancestor worship something to be defined through play and used as a backdrop rather than specific magical source, which is the intention. Look, for instance, at Shinto. Its a religion that reveres the ancestors, but also placates the kami directly as they are the ones with local power and influence.

(2) Bane, Curse, Guardian and Sickness Spirits: The rules give the POW of these spirits as a rolled value "and up", for example Guardian Spirits have "3d6 upwards". How do these values relate to the rules for starting shaman characters, which give two Intensity 1 spirits or one Intensity 2 spirit to a new shaman? (Character creation seems to be the only time these spirits need an Intensity rating, is it also relevant during later play?)

All spirits can have an Intensity. The Intensity is important as it defines what the spirit can give you in terms of bonuses and assistance, as well as just defining its INT, POW and CHA. As a mechanic though, it should fade into the background.

(3) Elemental Spirits: These can manifest powers within the shaman's own body. Is this the only way a shaman can use them, or can he also release them to act as normal elementals? And back to starting shamans, does each cubic metre of size count as one point of Intensity?

Shamans can release elemental spirits so that they act as elementals. Only shamans can internalise an elemental spirit; other magicians summon and control the physical representation of the elemental and cannot internalise it.

And yes, 1 Intensity should represent 1 cubic metre.

(4) Intellect, Magic and Power Spirits: Will these exist in MRQ2?

We've been careful to define spirits as more than being mere batteries. If we do retain these types of spirits, its likely they'll undergo some fundamental changes to their previous versions. I haven't done any more work on spirits myself recently, but this isn't to say that they won't appear in the future.

(5) Starting Shamans: The rules for starting shamans also say that only one spirit can be bound into a fetish (it actually says "fetch", but I think that's been errata'ed). If I have two Intensity 1 spirits, one is in a fetish, is the other just following me around, and if so how do I draw on its powers?

If you have an allied spirit not bound to a fetish, you'd need to placate it and negotiate a service. The spirit will be easy for you to find as it will remain in your vicinity on the spirit plane, but getting it to work for you will require negotiation of some form - which you could abstract as either an Influence roll, opposed by Persistence, or a full-on spirit combat to convince the spirit to do what you want. My own campaign has precisely this relationship. The Zebra Tribe shaman has a zebra fetch, but an allied spirit of an Intensity 6 Healing Spirit that he's managed to become very friendly with as long as he performs certain services for her. When he wants some healing doing, he has to bargain for it, and depending on how much healing, I may make him engage in Spirit Combat (which isn't a fight, but a prolonged argument and debate) to see if Grandmother Stitcher will perform the healing. Sometimes she will; sometimes she won't. Last time, she did, but insisted that the characters go into the Old Sundome ruin and lift the evil from it. She neglected to mention this was a vampire...

(6) Spirit Cults: The example cult in the rulebook only offers Ancestor Spirits, Guardian Spirits and Salamanders to its followers. Are these the only types of spirit available to a shaman follower, or just the only ones available through his cult?

No, shamans can go for whatever spirits they need. However, the cult may offer certain spirit alliances that are specific to the cult. One of the Gloranthan cults, Kolat (appearing in the new cults book), works in precisely this way.

Lastly, there have been a couple of good posts here with examples of spirits, but I could really use a few more ideas and guidelines for creating my own! Will there be more on Spirit Magic in later supplements? And do any other players/GMs have anything they could share?

Oh yes... further books will offer more spirit types and examples. However, spirits themselves are flexible things, and there is nothing to prevent you (and we'd encourage you) to create unique spirits that fit with your campaign, by mixing and matching the various examples found in the Spirit Magic chapter. The system is designed to be flexible to meet your needs. We might not have made this clear enough in the Spirit Magic chapter, but that's precisely the intention...

 

[preacher65]

Thanks, Loz, much appreciated. Antalon's excellent post answered many of my questions, and I guessed that at least some of what he said had come from other threads I'd missed. I didn't mean to imply his answers weren't helpful, as they were, there were just one or two gaps still left in my understanding.

And forgive Pete and I for not doing so earlier; we're both very busy

No need for that. Not only do I love the new RQ rules, but I'm extremely impressed at how responsive you both are on these boards. There's no way you can possibly hope to get to every single thread though.

Ancestors are venerated in a similar manner to gods - somtimes in place of gods.<rest snipped>

This is very helpful. And this approach of ancestor worship was how I first read the rules, but after a quick read through a borrowed Cults II book, I sort of lost sight of that theme. I've tried to play up some of these elements already in play, but am trying to get a clear idea of my character's world view while we're still starting the campaign. These comments have helped immensely and I thank you for them.

All spirits can have an Intensity. <snip> As a mechanic though, it should fade into the background.

It would be great to have unique spirits with distinct identities, rather than just a bunch of stats and powers, but that could be extra load on the GM. I'll have to work out with my GM how we handle this, and perhaps I'll write up some for him to approve or modify.

Shamans can release elemental spirits so that they act as elementals.

Good to know, and that will make a lot of difference. I should have said, but that was one of the main questions I wanted an answer to. Unfortunately I was posting from my phone at the time! Technology is a wonderful thing.

We've been careful to define spirits as more than being mere batteries. If we do retain these types of spirits, its likely they'll undergo some fundamental changes to their previous versions.

I'm actually quite pleased by that. I always disliked that approach back in RQ3, and in our new game the MRQ1 books are being used to fill in some of the gaps while we wait for the newer material. I noticed what I thought of as "RQ3-ish" spirits in the 1st edition rules. In my old RQ3 homebrew campaign it was possible to give personalities to allied spirits and even magic spirits, but intellect and power spirits just seemed like a rule mechanic, with a function that would probably be better served by an enchanted item. There's a lot more flavour to spirit magic in the new edition, and it's very welcome.

If you have an allied spirit not bound to a fetish, you'd need to placate it and negotiate a service.

Again, really helpful stuff here, and Antalon had pointed me in the right direction on this. Being a successful spirit magician is going to depend a lot on building relationships with spirits.

One of the Gloranthan cults, Kolat (appearing in the new cults book), works in precisely this way.

Because of my character's background, I've put down "Kolat" as his cult, after a bit of reading on Orlanthi practices and myths. So I'm definitely buying the new cults book now!

The system is designed to be flexible to meet your needs. We might not have made this clear enough in the Spirit Magic chapter, but that's precisely the intention...

It's strongly implied, but I think I was a bit deterred by having an almost blank page - too much choice! Sadly I can't spend the vast amount of time on roleplaying I did 25 years ago, so was looking for some shortcuts. But as I'm just a mere Spirit Worshipper at the moment, there's time to flesh things out as the campaign progresses. I just needed a bit of help to get started on the right path, and you and Antalon have provided that.

Many thanks for taking the time to post - if it helps to know, I'm loving the new edition and my group has bought several copies of the rules.

 

[junagu]

I hope this is not hijacking this thread, but I was wanting to start a topic on spirits and found some discussion of it at the end of this one, so I thought I'd tack it on here.

The system is designed to be flexible to meet your needs. We might not have made this clear enough in the Spirit Magic chapter, but that's precisely the intention...

It's strongly implied, but I think I was a bit deterred by having an almost blank page - too much choice! ........

I agree that this is pretty clear and is very welcome and exciting in the range of possibilities and application. The roots of all this is of course the runes and each magic type a different way of interpreting them.

The example spirits in the core rules are related to specific runes but don't cover them all. I assume that these are to stimulate creation of other spirits with runes as the starting point. Simple attribute boosts aside it will take a bit of experience to apply without unbalancing the game I suspect. It's not entirely obvious where to go with some of it, what the reasoning behind some of the examples are. Sickness and Curse spirits are the only examples given from the Power Runes for instance. Where does one go with Mastery or Fate runes? And the Form Runes - what spirits would derive from the Spirit rune? Is it too obvious for me to see? I'm not critical, just wondering if some elucidation of the reasoning might set me off on a spirit creation fest

Incidentally is there any more depth to the runes as they relate to each other? Magic, Law and Chaos have certain relationships to each other, or certainly cults derived from them. Are there any more?

 

[Loz]

Where does one go with Mastery or Fate runes? And the Form Runes - what spirits would derive from the Spirit rune? Is it too obvious for me to see? I'm not critical, just wondering if some elucidation of the reasoning might set me off on a spirit creation fest

Mastery and Fate Runes are ideal for ancestor spirits and divination/prediction spirits. Spirits deriving from the Spirit Rune are the great spirits: mountains, oceans, especially beautiful natural occurrences and so forth. Again, look to Shinto: the great spirits like Amerterasu are embodiments of the Spirit Rune; so would Mount Fuji be. In Glorantha, Kero Fin would be considered a Great Spirit.

Incidentally is there any more depth to the runes as they relate to each other? Magic, Law and Chaos have certain relationships to each other, or certainly cults derived from them. Are there any more?

Relationships depend on how your magical perceives them. Shamans will see differentiate relationships to sorcerers, and theists will have their own unique relationships based on myth. Its a really difficult question to answer because the runes are, themselves, open to such vast interpretation. The Water Rune, for instance, governs everything from tears to oceans and, as an elemental rune, clearly has great power. The taxonomy of the runes in the Magic chapter of RQ gives the best way of regarding the relationships, with the primal runes as the most powerful because they are the building blocks of creation.

Does this help????

 

[junagu]

Yes that's just the sort of info I was looking for.
So, a few more eg's:
Stasis spirits would help to solidify or hold in place, maybe lock doors and so on.
Movement is diametrically opposed, but could also be used to increase speed or form a slippery surface or something.
Communication might be used for something like telepathy or easing translation?

If mastery is ideal for ancestors (excelling at things) how would Man manifest? Obviously some cross-over there. Interesting what you say about the Spirit rune - though it sort of implies a combination with other runes, for example a great mountain spirit would be the Spirit rune plus the Earth rune. But I think I'm getting too analytical.
It's really a complex group of, I was going to say symbols but it is stated not to think of them this way, archetypes would be better I guess. It's quite like astrology or something and the feel for them will come through use and "observation" of their manifestation in a World.

Thanks for the guidance!

 

[Cassius]

(6) Spirit Cults: The example cult in the rulebook only offers Ancestor Spirits, Guardian Spirits and Salamanders to its followers. Are these the only types of spirit available to a shaman follower, or just the only ones available through his cult?

No, shamans can go for whatever spirits they need. However, the cult may offer certain spirit alliances that are specific to the cult. One of the Gloranthan cults, Kolat (appearing in the new cults book), works in precisely this way.

So do they get a benefit for using there cult spirits such as them being more plentiful around the tribes domain and such?

Or is it mainly just being used to indicate favour so a shaman in the example cult would use salamanders and such if he possibly can

 

[EricJ]

So, the starting shaman with 2 spirits, has one just accompanying him, and has another bound into a fetish, not a fetch, right? I should consider that reference a typo. Once upon a time in the Chaosium days, a fetch could hold spirits whose total POW did not exceed the fetch's, if I remember correctly. That made the statement in the rule book more confusing.

I can still see a shaman discorporated and searching the Spirit Plane, while his fetch guards his body, and has its watchdog spirit helping him guard it.

By the way, what use is a MP-boosting spirit? A character releases a MP-boosting spirit from its fetish, increasing his MP pool. He doesn't get the extra MPs, right away, so he probably needs to wait a couple of hours. But, it cost him 1 MP to release the spirit, and most characters are reluctant to release their spirits for a long time since the released spirits are vulnerable to attack. Am I wrong? Are MP-boosters a little trite?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

By the way, what use is a MP-boosting spirit? A character releases a MP-boosting spirit from its fetish, increasing his MP pool. He doesn't get the extra MPs, right away, so he probably needs to wait a couple of hours. But, it cost him 1 MP to release the spirit, and most characters are reluctant to release their spirits for a long time since the released spirits are vulnerable to attack. Am I wrong? Are MP-boosters a little trite?

The shaman would use it to mystically strengthen himself in preparation for summoning a very big spirit, probably whilst surrounded by his tribe in a day long ritual on a cult holy day.

 

[Ultor]

On the question of Intellect Spirits, in previous editions the convention arose that in the Third Age of Glorantha Intellect Spirits were the shattered remains of God Learner souls, so there's a good reason for them not existing in the Second Age.

I'd like to see Power and Magic spirits still exist, but I'd make them very wild and powerful, a really difficult challenge for a magician to bind. Divine magicians should have access to friendly allied spirits that serve as power/magic batteries as always, of course - yet another reason to choose to worship a god.

 

[simonh]

On the question of Intellect Spirits, in previous editions the convention arose that in the Third Age of Glorantha Intellect Spirits were the shattered remains of God Learner souls, so there's a good reason for them not existing in the Second Age.

A lot of fragmentary spirits (Intelect spirits, Power spirits, etc) were believed to be the shatterted remnants of spirits and souls from the Gods War and/or the Great Darkness.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Deleriad]

On the question of Intellect Spirits, in previous editions the convention arose that in the Third Age of Glorantha Intellect Spirits were the shattered remains of God Learner souls, so there's a good reason for them not existing in the Second Age.

A lot of fragmentary spirits (Intelect spirits, Power spirits, etc) were believed to be the shatterted remnants of spirits and souls from the Gods War and/or the Great Darkness.

Simon Hibbs

Although I always got the impression that this was a retcon to enable RQ to work in Glorantha. Personally I like that RQII has carried on the ethos of trying to ensure that magicians are competent without needing a whole utility belt of spirit fragments. It's good to see that spirits are now largely dealt with by animists rather than being magical batteries.

 

[simonh]

Although I always got the impression that this was a retcon to enable RQ to work in Glorantha. Personally I like that RQII has carried on the ethos of trying to ensure that magicians are competent without needing a whole utility belt of spirit fragments. It's good to see that spirits are now largely dealt with by animists rather than being magical batteries.

I completely agree. RQ3 was a huge step forward in many ways, but the shamanism rules were very much a work in progress.

Still, the concept of broken remnants from mythical eras is a useful one but should be used to create cool and quirky spirit entities rather than contrived rules constructs. Easier said than done, however.

Simon Hibbs

 

[ThatGuy]

OK, so as I understand it it works like this:

A) 1 CA to call forth a spirit from its binding
B) A free action, using Spirit Binding, to succesfully command the spirit, each attempt costing 1 MP.
C) 1 CA to recall a spirit into its fetish - no Spirit Binding skill check required or the expenditure of a MP.

My question is:

When, and how often, does the free action of rolling for the Spirit Binding that will channel the spirit's power take place?

 

[Loz]

You're effectively combining A and B into the same action. They're distinct parts of the process but would happen almost simultaneously, in a detailed Combat Round.

 

[Rurik]

I think the question is that if you release the spirit and fail the spirit binding roll free action what happens?

Are successive attempts to bind also free? Can binding be tried on every SR you may act? Can successive attempts be combined with any other action?

Personally right now I am leaning towards saying that the first attempt is a free action but if it fails subsequent attempts are equivalent to a casting attempt (only be combined with simple actions such as walking 1/2 move, etc.)

But official rulings are always nice.