Two Robot Supplements ?

[rust]

Really? There isn't anything in the traveller books that if just being translated, can't be done by any person fluent in both languages. Hell, you don't even have to go from metric to English system.

To give an example, the translators of the core rules made a complete
mess of the autofire rules because they confused rounds (of combat)
and rounds (of ammunition).

As mentioned elsewhere, few Germans have much reliable knowledge
about military subjects, and without such knowledge much of Traveller
seems just gibberish. And those few translators who do have the back-
ground knowledge and therefore comprehend the meaning of the text
instead of only the individual words can earn a lot more by translating
non-roleplaying material.

So, if one wants to have anything to do with combat and military trans-
lated between German and English, even Babelfish is not much worse
than the average translator a roleplaying firm can afford ...

 

[Zemekis]

And those few translators who do have the back-
ground knowledge and therefore comprehend the meaning of the text
instead of only the individual words can earn a lot more by translating
non-roleplaying material.

The question is: Is anyone doing/producing role-playing games for the big money? It seems there are ventures far more profitable than this one.

 

[rust]

The question is: Is anyone doing/producing role-playing games for the big money?

Hardly, but it is not easy to find someone able and willing to do acceptab-
le translations for small change, especially since this small change would
indeed be very small - a professional translator already earns less than
1 Euro per 55 ASCII signs (a "standard line"), really no "big money", and
working for even less means to donate time (= money) to a fan project.

 

[DFW]

To give an example, the translators of the core rules made a complete
mess of the autofire rules because they confused rounds (of combat)
and rounds (of ammunition).

OED = round; A single charge of ammunition for a firearm. Of time: Recurrent.

They weren't fluent in English. Fluency doesn't mean knowing only one def a word. Also, from the context of the text one would have to have poor knowledge of even their own language (parts of speech) to make that specified mistake. I assume from your example that the translator understood "combat round" as a measure of time. (It's defined in rule book)
So, example: I know German but I don't know anything about glass making. From the German text: "It takes 10 squigles (measure of time I DO know) for the glass to cool." Next: "A crucible holds 5 squigles."

To confuse those two, even if I've NEVER heard "squigles" used in that context is to be functionally illiterate as one is talking about time, the other obviously something else...

I sympathize with the company though. Having been an exec most of my life, I can say that it is getting harder and harder to find people who posses a basic knowledge of grammar, even for their 1st language.

 

[DFW]

Other way round the same, the "Ice cold dog" is NOT the desired translation for "Eiskalter Hund".

Yes, like I stated. One would actually have to be fluent (Ready in the use of words, able to express oneself readily and easily in speech or writing. ) in both languages. But, that would be prerequisite to being hired as a translator. I wonder if the company put our notice to its fan base offering free material (in quantity) in exchange for the work. That's what I'd do if running a company in the RPG space.

 

[rust]

I assume from your example that the translator understood "combat round" as a measure of time.

One of the results of the translation was that autofire would take 3 x the
autofire value in combat rounds.

The problem is that such a rule does only appear illogical if one has any
idea what autofire is, for someone with few or no background knowledge
the idea that autofire takes much longer than normal fire may come as
a surprise, but not as completely implausible - the weapon has to fire
more rounds than in single fire mode, which may well take longer ...

So, to produce a good translation of a text, one does not only need fluen-
cy in both of the languages, but also at least basic fluency in the subject
covered by the text.

 

[DFW]

The problem is that such a rule does only appear illogical if one has any idea what autofire is, ... but also at least basic fluency in the subject
covered by the text.

No, one needs to NOT be lazy. The translator reading the text sees the word "autofire" and says, "what the hell does that word mean.?" Google = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_firearm.

Like my previous example one has to be willing to look up terms not previously encountered.

 

[rust]

Like my previous example one has to be willing to look up terms not previously encountered.

If a translator without the basic knowledge of the subject would spend
the time to do this, he would end up earning less than he would get by
begging on the street, because the time for content research is not co-
vered by those less than 1 Euro per standard line.

Which is why one can have a translator who is likely to make mistakes,
because he lacks the background knowledge, but works for small change
or for love, or a translator who knows what he is writing about and pro-
duces a good translation, but charges accordingly - which is too much for
most roleplaying companies.

 

[DFW]

If a translator without the basic knowledge of the subject would spend the time to do this, he would end up earning less than he would get by
begging on the street..

Yep, but if you are going to do a job for pay, do it right. I have little tolerance for laziness and/or a shoddy work ethic.

 

[rust]

In the end it boils down to something like: "If a company can only offer
peanuts as payment, it will only get a monkey's job."

 

[DFW]

Nope, you do a job to earn a living. If you are payed lousy, you deliver quick/lousy work

If I hire someone, I specify the end work product (contractor basis), if it doesn't meet specs, the person doesn't get paid. I assume that if the person accepts the contract at the price negotiated, the contract will be fulfilled. I hope they didn't pay the person who did the aforementioned "translation".

 

[DFW]

Oh, one can deliver a correct translation (so you'll pay) but still deliver a bad translation. You can demand correctness but not good
prose in a contract since "good prose" can't be qualified.

Actually, I've done just that for my EMEA, LATAM & APAC products. It is side checked by execs in those regions before payment is released. Simple.

 

[rust]

Actually, I've done just that for my EMEA, LATAM & APAC products. It is side checked by execs in those regions before payment is released. Simple.

Different countries, different laws.

I think all one could do over here would be to withhold a bonus offered
for "good prose" of a translation, but the time spent on the translation
would have to be paid in full, at worst this payment could be withheld
for the specific lines that were mistranslated, not for the entire transla-
tion.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

In the end it boils down to something like: "If a company can only offer
peanuts as payment, it will only get a monkey's job."

That's almost exactly what an Oxford City councillor said this week, just after announcing a council workers' pay-freeze, and a 28% increase for the executives....

Oddly, all the workers have taken exception to being called "monkeys'.

 

[rust]

Oddly, all the workers have taken exception to being called "monkeys'.

Rest assured that I would take exception, too, although far more to being
paid with "peanuts" like a monkey than to being called a "monkey".

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

They don't like either.

Strange that, and with such a grand example from "on high"!

 

[Dave Chase]

A simple robot listening on the side

"Error, error. Corupt data. It is not in COBOL, FORTRAN, nor PASCAL.

Error, error."

Hmm, could we get back to Robots?

:lol:

Dave Chase

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

It is sort of related... in that a society with a large amount of automated economic activity is going to have radically different labour relations and assumptions.

What do people do when a robot is far more effective cost wise/reliable etc. (given a capitalist/partially-planned economic model)? Corporations would most likely go for the most resource efficient route in order to maximise profit.

This is probably going to be mainly felt at the lower end of the job-market, by the unskilled/semi-skilled. So, what then for stable high-tech societies?

 

[rust]

So, what then for stable high-tech societies?

No serious problem if the robot-based production is higher than the
human-based demand and the distribution of the produced goods is
at least remotely fair (welcome to a universe like that of Star Trek),
a serious problem if production does not meet demand or distribu-
tion is severely unfair, but probably - as almost always in history -
somewhere in between the extremes, not bad enough to cause a
revolt, but not good enough to really enjoy it.

 

[Zemekis]

+ Given that 13M uses the FanPro system of delivery planing(1) we can't say when the german version comes out until it comes out

Actually it is flagged as "in print" and is supposed to be released during Feencon, which is in 2 weeks.