Truther Travellers

[rinku]

You would expect that any successful Artist career would result in a fanbase. If you've done 4 terms as a Performer and come out of it with Art (Performance) 4, you should probably buy an entourage.

But it really doesn't need a mechanic separate from the various not-defined legacies ALL characters get from their prior careers. Career events inform a bit of this, but aren't the ONLY things happening to a character in a four year stretch.

Exploration Scouts have been to places others haven't. Medical characters may have saved lives. Scientists may have helped develop some of the cutting edge tech. Spies may have lived entire lives that are undocumented by the career process.

 

[boggo2300]

I feel a truther having ANY sort of investigative or reasoning expertise would result in them NOT being a Truther, a Truther should ideally be a cult leader, or snake-oil salesman in skills

 

[MasterGwydion]

Technically, intelligence agencies also employ "Truthers", although they specifically know that the Truth that they are preaching is false.

Edit - and almost anyone in the PR industry.

 

[rinku]

There's also doublethink. They know simultaneously that a statement is false, but also that it's the holiest truth.

 

[Condottiere]

You can bribe influencers.

This is probably too complex to try and simplify, but you could have a following, and followers.

 

[rinku]

Leaders are found in all parts of society. It's generally sufficient to have a leader with appropriate skills and followers/minions/employees/soldiers/workmates/fans/family/crew/eye candy/etc as appropriate to the situation. Whether PC or NPC, though PCs may need to actually budget for them.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Scientists often rub authorities the wrong way, because, ideally, if they do it well, they follow the data - i.e. they test propositions against empirical reality.

Yep, good point. In the Galileo example I mentioned, it is not his meticulous approach to science that makes him identifiable as a Truther <IMO>, it is more the reaction of the Spanish government of the day who were denying him the results of his empirical findings. He could be yelling out "I am True. I am the one who found this to be True" until he was blue in the face, but the authorities not only wouldn't listen to him, they also were trying to cover up his findings by silencing him - do you see anything in that perspective?

Truthers do not do that, because they don't need to: they start "knowing" a Truth and only seek information confirming what they already believe to be true, rejecting as invalid anything which does not fit their worldview.

Well ... here I would still include some kinds of empirical truth as being Truther as well as conspiratorial Truths. The career path is generic and open to both interpretations. IMO, a Truther is someone who lays out information confirming that their Message is "True" - there are two cases that stem from that, and depend on i) objective verification ii) influence of counter-beliefs and arguments within the target audience. I am happy with that. If I can pull it off, then that is a feather in my cap.

Now, take Flat Earthers, who are sort of typical Truthers.

Good example. On a different note, I would have chosen Eco Warriors to illustrate my extended interpretation. Political activists with a Message about "global warming" perhaps including followers who didn't do the empirical research. They have the backing of science but have poor reception in political circles and from politically motivated journalists. They have "Truth" and they are "Truther" by showing solidarity with their Message.
Truth is about satisfiability in logic. "Truthing" is about finding mutual satisfaction among followers. The followers will probably want verification or testimony (if the verification is too complex) . Some of the target audience wont be followers. Some of the target audience will be sceptics and "truth-deniers" for either good or bad reasons.

 

[rinku]

What Spanish government? Galileo's run in was with the Vatican. And only over his support for Copernicanism. But more directly because his Dialogo sopra i due massimi sistemi del mondo appeared to ridicule Pope Urban VIII. The Pope and the Jesuits turned on him over that book.

His more important work in optics, mechanics and other areas was never an issue.

And there was more than a small amount of academic warfare between Tycho Brahe's camp and the Copernicans. Brahe pushed a solar system model where the Earth was immobile (satisfying the church) but the planets orbited the sun (which was the only thing apart from the moon that directly orbited the Earth). THAT was the model that Galileo objected to, although it was impossible to distinguish between the two using the observations of the day, since stellar parallax was unable to be measured.

Scientifically, both were valid models that (almost) matched the observations. Neither QUITE did, because they both assumed that orbits had to be perfect circles. Galileo never accepted Kepler's ellipses.

 

[ottarrus]

@MonsterX
The main problem scientists have with politicians is when the science, no matter how well grounded, well intentioned, or outside influence free, doesn't validate a politician's publically stated position. See also, the COVID outbreak.
Politics and anything make lousy bedfellows but politics and science are especially toxic.

 

[Limpin Legin]

His more important work in optics, mechanics and other areas was never an issue.

So these are irrelevant to the discussion.

What Spanish government? Galileo's run in was with the Vatican.

Thank you, I've accidently confused the Spanish Inquisition with the Italian Inquisition. Yes, there was a "government" run by the nobility . There was also a change of pope between the first and second judgement. Galeleo's work was dedicated to the new pope.

And only over his support for Copernicanism.

He wasn't just 'supporting' Copernicanism for his words and views. He furthered these views by providing mathematics to substantiate the physics question. Something that hadn't been achieved before. One of his patrons was the Grand Duke of Tuscany.

Cosimo II de' Medici - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even if it was "only" this endeavour that attracted the negativity, it is the one that was considered significant enough to get him arrested.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Have you noticed you are all now discussing what you think is "the truth"?

 

[Condottiere]

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.[3][4]

The concept of truthiness has emerged as a major subject of discussion surrounding U.S. politics during the late 20th and early 21st centuries because of the perception among some observers of a rise in propaganda and a growing hostility toward factual reporting and fact-based discussion.[3]

 

[MasterGwydion]

So these are irrelevant to the discussion.

Thank you, I've accidently confused the Spanish Inquisition with the Italian Inquisition. Yes, there was a "government" run by the nobility . There was also a change of pope between the first and second judgement. Galeleo's work was dedicated to the new pope.

He wasn't just 'supporting' Copernicanism for his words and views. He furthered these views by providing mathematics to substantiate the physics question. Something that hadn't been achieved before. One of his patrons was the Grand Duke of Tuscany.

Cosimo II de' Medici - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even if it was "only" this endeavour that attracted the negativity, it is the one that was considered significant enough to get him arrested.

I think you are severely confused. By your logic, there is no such thing as a Truther Career path in Traveller, because the only thing that can create a Truther is the government or some similar body.

You are saying that to be a Truther, the "government" must be against you. So, in other words, Truther isn't a career path so much as it is a declaration of derision from those in power. If that is the case, it does not fit with any of the other career paths in Traveller and should be removed. Both Career Paths in the Companion are garbage and a waste of space. Other than a poorly thought-out mechanic of Followers and such, what do these two Career Paths add to the game?

 

[MasterGwydion]

Have you noticed you are all now discussing what you think is "the truth"?

I am not. I am trying to figure out what the definition of Truther is and why Mongoose felt the need to take up pages in one of its books with this garbage. The Truth is that anyone can be a conspiracy theorist regardless of career path. Anyone can run a podcast on the side and peddle in conspiracies. Why does that require a whole career path for what is essentially the Persuade skill?

 

[MonsterX]

Thank you, I've accidently confused the Spanish Inquisition with the Italian Inquisition.

It seems that you expected the Spanish Inquisition instead of the Italian one.

It's ok. NO ONE EXPECTS THE ITALIAN INQUISITION!!!!




(been waiting my whole life for a chance to say that, I just didn't know it yet, thanks so much for providing the settup)

 

[Terry Mixon]

::begins handing out tinfoil hats::

 

[Limpin Legin]

Why does that require a whole career path for what is essentially the Persuade skill?

I had that question too. After a quick re-read I'd gleam that the point is that 'The Message' is the focus of the Career Path and the Interaction DM of the Truther only applies to a Persuasion check when speaking about their 'Message.'

You could say why does it require a whole career in any Military Service for what is essentially a Gun Combat Skill?

 

[MasterGwydion]

I had that question too. After a quick re-read I'd gleam that the point is that 'The Message' is the focus of the Career Path and the Interaction DM of the Truther only applies to a Persuasion check when speaking about their 'Message.'

Seems to Me that the skills of the Truther would be the same as a university scientist. Science skills. Writing skills. Computer skills. Investigation skills. Speaking skills. Party skills.

You could say why does it require a whole career in any Military Service for what is essentially a Gun Combat Skill?

If all military service was just a trip to the gun range, sure. Go ask a soldier how much training they received that has nothing to do with firing a gun. Ask the vets on this forum what skills they were trained in that are not covered by Gun Combat. I'll start.

Admin. Most armies run on bureaucracy.

 

[Condottiere]

It's a range.

I used to believe von Daniken was on to something.

It's possible that Atlantis existed, in some form.

Chances are, there are alien civilizations.

England will become World Champions.

 

[hopsnbaer]

There are hidden microchips in your cheese, and secret messages on printed documents.