Troops with no armour and still different Kill values?

[GhostWolf69]

Now I might be wrong again here, but this is my take on the rules:

You score a hit, meeting or beating the target models "Hit" rating...
... if they don't have an Armour rating... they die. Correct?

Why then do the MEA Inf and the MEA Elite unit have different "Kill" values?

Where does that EVER come into play?

None of them have an Armor rating... so they both die on 4+ (their Target)...

So what's up with that?

I guess it could make sense if there was something in the game that granted an Armour value.. but I have yet to find it...

Cover only increases Hit and Kill ratings... not Armour, for instance.

Any ideas?

/wolf

 

[GJD]

I've been toying with the idea of Medic units - A kill is a kill, but a hit and a failed (or no) armour roll could allow for a medic to return the unit to play in some manner - ready action and a die roll of some kind.

G.

 

[GhostWolf69]

That's exactly what's been flying around in my head as well... great minds eh?

Ofcourse I will add morale effects to leaving wounded behind etc...
In fact I'm in the middle of re-vamping the whole bleeding game.

Might as well now that I won't buy the book.

But you're saying you donät know whay MGP did this? Right?

/wolf

 

[cordas]

It was hoped that some types of terrain would give an armour value to units inside it, such as fortifications. However as far as I am aware this hasn't been mentioned in the posts from people who have the MRB.

It could also come into play in the campain system, wounded troops culd be healed and return to combat service on a 1 or 2 be permanantly removed from your forces, on a 3 or 4 they could be back in 2 turns, on a 5 next turn, and on a 6 this turn...

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

to the best of my knowledge, there no rules YET to help a unit that's got no save score. they probably included the kill score to make sure there was no incongruences later down the line.

 

[B_Steele]

This will be covered with further troops and situational rules, yes. For now there is no difference between the two; but there will be.

Cheers,
bry

 

[emperorpenguin]

I like your medic idea GJD

 

[GJD]

I like your medic idea GJD

Comes from playing Stargrunt where casualties are considered "out of action" until a reorganisation action is taken - you then roll to see if the figure is OK and just cowering in a foxhole, wounded or dead. Wounded figures have to be carried, slowing the unit down and reducing it's firepower, or treated by a medic.

G.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I like your medic idea GJD

Comes from playing Stargrunt where casualties are considered "out of action" until a reorganisation action is taken - you then roll to see if the figure is OK and just cowering in a foxhole, wounded or dead. Wounded figures have to be carried, slowing the unit down and reducing it's firepower, or treated by a medic.

G.

used to play SG myself, could never convince anyone to give up 40K for it though

 

[GhostWolf69]

I'm also stealing high and low from SGII as you can probably tell.

/wolf

 

[PilGrim]

I think SG2 are excellent, and either deliberatly or not BFE does have a lot of similarities. If pushed I think BFE plays "quicker" and "bigger", but maybe not "better", but both have their place. Actually until BFE I ususlly suggested SG2 for any modern skirmish, now with BFE it is a lot closer call.

 

[Audacity]

I'm wondering if the Feyadin "no suppression" ability is equal to not having armour. I'm finding that a big factor in how I attack these guys.

 

[soulman]

Hi cordas, its soulman calling

I have added the healing phase in my Ghost recon rules....

When a soldier is removed from the table, its because he`s WOUNDED or KILLED...
so...
If he`s WOUNDED, then at the end of the battle on a roll of 4+ he can return to fight in the next battle.
Mainly for the Ghost recon rules, which is small unit fighting...

For my Medic rules i have the following

If a medic can get to a soldier in the next turn amd the soldier is WOUNDED, then a d6 roll of 5+ puts he back into the game.

If the soldier is KILLED, then the medic can on a d6 of 4+ the soldier is treated as WOUNDED, he`s not put back into this fight, but at the end of the Battle a roll of 4+ means he`s alive and will be healed for the next battle.

Trained soldiers in todays armys have first aid training, so if a soldier is WOUNDED a soldier can treat him on a 5+, you are still removed from the table, but on a 4+ at the end of the fight he can return for the next battle.

Hope that makes sense, its for special forces games etc, when you have names etc for your unit, as you see a soldier is mainly always removed from the table as normal, its just on the campaign side of things

Cheers

 

[cordas]

Hi cordas, its soulman calling

I have added the healing phase in my Ghost recon rules....

When a soldier is removed from the table, its because he`s WOUNDED or KILLED...
so...
If he`s WOUNDED, then at the end of the battle on a roll of 4+ he can return to fight in the next battle.
Mainly for the Ghost recon rules, which is small unit fighting...

For my Medic rules i have the following

If a medic can get to a soldier in the next turn amd the soldier is WOUNDED, then a d6 roll of 5+ puts he back into the game.

If the soldier is KILLED, then the medic can on a d6 of 4+ the soldier is treated as WOUNDED, he`s not put back into this fight, but at the end of the Battle a roll of 4+ means he`s alive and will be healed for the next battle.

Trained soldiers in todays armys have first aid training, so if a soldier is WOUNDED a soldier can treat him on a 5+, you are still removed from the table, but on a 4+ at the end of the fight he can return for the next battle.

Hope that makes sense, its for special forces games etc, when you have names etc for your unit, as you see a soldier is mainly always removed from the table as normal, its just on the campaign side of things

Cheers

Sounds reasonable, I take it that treating a fallen soldier requires a ready action. I have a few thoughts on this.... :lol:

I would also say that if its a fellow soldier trying to give 1st aid he should be within 1/2 his movement score of his fallen comrade, a medic needs to be within 1.5 times his movement score (USMC medic has normal move of 4" so that would give him a 6" range) as when ever we see or hear about medics they are true heroes on the battlefield who will do anything to get to a wounded man.
When readied the soldier going to aid a fallen comrade, move the model directly into b2b contact, this movement IGNORES any movement penalties such as movement being halfed by terrain.
This ready action can be done as a reaction. This ready action must be done within 2 actions (including reactions) or it to late.

Hope these help

 

[Xorrandor]

When readied the soldier going to aid a fallen comrade, move the model directly into b2b contact, this movement IGNORES any movement penalties such as movement being halfed by terrain.

Don't care too much either way, but this one rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps if you lost your cover bonuses (for exposing yourself to enemy fire while aiding your comrade) I might be OK with it, but otherwise it seems like a kludge. "Oh, I'll leap to aid Schmitty over here! Oh, Schmitty, you're OK? Well, then I guess I just got to move extra for free..."

This ready action can be done as a reaction. This ready action must be done within 2 actions (including reactions) or it to late.

I don't think the time limit is necessary, honestly. First aid talks about a Golden Hour, not a Golden Thirty Seconds, and any injuries that are tourniquet-worthy seem like they are too annoying to model in-game. More importantly, it adds annoying book-keeping to every casualty; it's easy to leave the model on the table, but annoying to have tokens next to each one indicating how much time they have before being removed from the field. If I wanted that sort of detail, I might play Stargrunt. (Of course, then I'd have to find all new players, too...)

 

[PilGrim]

I am not so sure about the move bonus, medcs may be heroic (and some may just as easily not be) but they are not faster than normal troops - make them immune to supression? that would be a better way of representing their motivation.

The other thing that we are missing is the effect the casualties have on their squad mates. Haing a friend bleed his life out or scream his agony has some effect on his comrades. In Stargrunt it makes motivating the squad harder, but in BFE this option is not there.

What about untreated wounded either causing the squad to be supresssed?

 

[cordas]

Immune to suppression would work for medics. I still think they should be able to move a bit faster to rescue wounded guys than normal grunts...

 

[Xorrandor]

Immune to suppression would work for medics. I still think they should be able to move a bit faster to rescue wounded guys than normal grunts...

Possible, but why not just make them move faster overall? I guess I'm not familiar with medics in the modern Marines; do they carry full kit, or are they traveling light? Do the Marines even have medics, or do they still use Navy medics? Argh, this is becoming a homework assignment...