Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Don’t forget to make the tweak you elucidated for the docking hatches being part of the docking clamps when you do the High Guard update.
Travellers Needed! High Guard Updates
- Thread starter paltrysum
- Start date
wintertraveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Some clarification and perhaps examples would be useful regarding the following areas of ship combat/operations/systems:
- Critical Hits: more detail of how this table from the Core book is applied. The table is written in a sparse way and could benefit from more explanation and examples outside of the table. This sparseness is fine for the table, but could benefit from additional content to demonstrate how the table is really applied.
- Backup systems: how do back up systems work (like a back-up fusion plant or extra M-drive)? What are the time frames (rounds) and skill checks needed to switch to and from the backup? How do back-up systems interact with the critical table? Do criticals impact all systems (including the backup) or only the active system? There are references on this forum that suggest that some backup systems are useless due to how the crit table is written. My guess is that isn't the design intent. Going back to the CT TCS product, spare systems rules were introduced and used in TCS games.
- Armored bulkheads and addon features to systems: do armored bulkheads need to be purchased and applied to secondary addons to a system? For example: emergency power systems purchased with a fusion plant or a shallow penetration scanners added to a sensor system. This question is targeted at how the critical table works with these extra components and the interaction with the armored bulkhead feature. Do Armored Bulkheads need to be installed on the main sensors, back up sensors, and a single signal processing system? Do these extra features feature need to be installed to specific sensors systems such as one for the main sensors and a second installation for a backup sensor system?
- Critical Hits: more detail of how this table from the Core book is applied. The table is written in a sparse way and could benefit from more explanation and examples outside of the table. This sparseness is fine for the table, but could benefit from additional content to demonstrate how the table is really applied.
- Backup systems: how do back up systems work (like a back-up fusion plant or extra M-drive)? What are the time frames (rounds) and skill checks needed to switch to and from the backup? How do back-up systems interact with the critical table? Do criticals impact all systems (including the backup) or only the active system? There are references on this forum that suggest that some backup systems are useless due to how the crit table is written. My guess is that isn't the design intent. Going back to the CT TCS product, spare systems rules were introduced and used in TCS games.
- Armored bulkheads and addon features to systems: do armored bulkheads need to be purchased and applied to secondary addons to a system? For example: emergency power systems purchased with a fusion plant or a shallow penetration scanners added to a sensor system. This question is targeted at how the critical table works with these extra components and the interaction with the armored bulkhead feature. Do Armored Bulkheads need to be installed on the main sensors, back up sensors, and a single signal processing system? Do these extra features feature need to be installed to specific sensors systems such as one for the main sensors and a second installation for a backup sensor system?
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Technetium 98
Cosmic Mongoose
Minor thing - when there're different TLs of the same basic kit (e.g Mail Distribution Array, Loading Belt, etc.), please use the Basic/Improved/Enhanced/Advanced lark. It's not exactly gamechanging, but better to stick to a standard.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Found an error that needs fixed. Page 44
It states that Units indicate the percentage of hull covered, limited to 40%. 40% = 40 Units. Doesn't matter what the tonnage of the ship is. This section needs to be rewritten to state that Units = (1 x % of hull) x total ship tonnage. Then what is written matches what was intended.
It states that Units indicate the percentage of hull covered, limited to 40%. 40% = 40 Units. Doesn't matter what the tonnage of the ship is. This section needs to be rewritten to state that Units = (1 x % of hull) x total ship tonnage. Then what is written matches what was intended.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
I asked this over in the general Traveller forum but upon advice I'm repeating it here.
Are there any plans to update High Guard with all the equipment that's been announced in the various Traveller sourcebooks and adventures?
The Great Rift, for example, introduced quite a few pieces of engine and science lab equipment.
And a thought for all the new technical updates:
For those who buy direct from Mongoose, how about sending them ongoing updates for new gear as Mongoose publishes new books?
Are there any plans to update High Guard with all the equipment that's been announced in the various Traveller sourcebooks and adventures?
The Great Rift, for example, introduced quite a few pieces of engine and science lab equipment.
And a thought for all the new technical updates:
For those who buy direct from Mongoose, how about sending them ongoing updates for new gear as Mongoose publishes new books?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I was under the impression, units are tonnage dependent, and it would be percentage times hull tonnage.
If we take the hull tonnage of two hundred, forty percent actually would be eighty units.
If we take the hull tonnage of two hundred, forty percent actually would be eighty units.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Yes. That is the intent, but nowhere does it actually say that. You have to infer it from the example instead of it being clearly stated.
There are at last count 38 books that have High Guard components in them. I uploaded a document on the first page the lists what is in what book. It is 37 as I have not uploaded the new version since they added 1 piece of new equipment Singularity adventure.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
In the refits section describing major and minor refits, the second of the two paragraphs need to be split to be clearer. Like this.
“There are two different types of refit that can be used. Major refits cover changes in power plant, manoeuvre or jump drive, as well as changes to spinal mounts or launch facilities (such as launch tubes). Removing these components costs 0.5 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and then installing new ones costs 1.5 times the cost of the new system. The time this takes is one quarter of the time required to build a new ship of the same size as described in Construction Times on page 8.
Minor refits are changes to any other components aboard the ship, such as weapon mounts or staterooms. Removing these components costs 0.1 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and installing new ones costs 1.1 times the cost of the new system. This takes one tenth of the time required to build a new ship of the same size. Armour and other parts of the ship integral to the hull (such as configuration or reinforced structure) cannot be changed under any refit.
Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced. Other components can be increased in size if there is tonnage available. If several systems or components are being removed or replaced in a single refit, all replacements are made simultaneously; therefore, it only takes the time required for the longest job to be completed.”
Much clearer and not a single word changed.
EDIT: Personally, I think the restriction should be removed rather than tweaking the words.
“There are two different types of refit that can be used. Major refits cover changes in power plant, manoeuvre or jump drive, as well as changes to spinal mounts or launch facilities (such as launch tubes). Removing these components costs 0.5 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and then installing new ones costs 1.5 times the cost of the new system. The time this takes is one quarter of the time required to build a new ship of the same size as described in Construction Times on page 8.
Minor refits are changes to any other components aboard the ship, such as weapon mounts or staterooms. Removing these components costs 0.1 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and installing new ones costs 1.1 times the cost of the new system. This takes one tenth of the time required to build a new ship of the same size. Armour and other parts of the ship integral to the hull (such as configuration or reinforced structure) cannot be changed under any refit.
Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced. Other components can be increased in size if there is tonnage available. If several systems or components are being removed or replaced in a single refit, all replacements are made simultaneously; therefore, it only takes the time required for the longest job to be completed.”
Much clearer and not a single word changed.
EDIT: Personally, I think the restriction should be removed rather than tweaking the words.
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Or better still:
There are two different types of refit that can be used, major refits and minor refits. Armour and other parts of the ship integral to the hull (such as configuration or reinforced structure) cannot be changed under any refit.
Major refits cover changes in power plant, manoeuvre or jump drive, as well as changes to spinal mounts or launch facilities (such as launch tubes). Removing these components costs 0.5 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and then installing new ones costs 1.5 times the cost of the new system. The time this takes is one quarter of the time required to build a new ship of the same size as described in Construction Times on page 8. Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced.
Minor refits are changes to any other components aboard the ship, such as weapon mounts or staterooms. Removing these components costs 0.1 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and installing new ones costs 1.1 times the cost of the new system. This takes one tenth of the time required to build a new ship of the same size. Other components can be increased in size if there is tonnage available. If several systems or components are being removed or replaced in a single refit, all replacements are made simultaneously; therefore, it only takes the time required for the longest job to be completed.
There are two different types of refit that can be used, major refits and minor refits. Armour and other parts of the ship integral to the hull (such as configuration or reinforced structure) cannot be changed under any refit.
Major refits cover changes in power plant, manoeuvre or jump drive, as well as changes to spinal mounts or launch facilities (such as launch tubes). Removing these components costs 0.5 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and then installing new ones costs 1.5 times the cost of the new system. The time this takes is one quarter of the time required to build a new ship of the same size as described in Construction Times on page 8. Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced.
Minor refits are changes to any other components aboard the ship, such as weapon mounts or staterooms. Removing these components costs 0.1 times the cost of the original system, while removing them and installing new ones costs 1.1 times the cost of the new system. This takes one tenth of the time required to build a new ship of the same size. Other components can be increased in size if there is tonnage available. If several systems or components are being removed or replaced in a single refit, all replacements are made simultaneously; therefore, it only takes the time required for the longest job to be completed.
I think refits need to be reworded. There’s plenty of mongoose designs that increase engine and other things covered in major refits but the line in minor refits “ Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced. ” confuses the intention. Mongoose needs to make it clear that you can increase the size of these items with a major refit but only decrease them in a minor refit. I really think it needs to be made clear that this is the case if for nothing else than continuity’s sake since there are dozens of publish mongoose designs that are refits that do increase the size of things like Engines and Power Plants. Possibly changes the line to something like this “ Those items covered under a major refit cannot be increased in size but they can be reduced in a minor refit” that would make the restitution clear as well as indicating that with a major refit the can be increased in size
If you don’t change this we need a explanation for all the ships that mongoose does do this, especially since in the real world increasing engine size has been done in many cases
If you don’t change this we need a explanation for all the ships that mongoose does do this, especially since in the real world increasing engine size has been done in many cases
Sigtrygg and Mixon you both complain that mongoose ships breaks the HG rule set wouldn’t it make sense to correct the refits to reflect the way mongoose does these ships especially since a lot a people support being able to increase the the items under a major refit? I would think that this is a change to remove conflict instead of fostering it but invalidating existing designs. This would kill two stones removing the difference in opinion about the rule and make a large number of publish ship make rule sense.
Micky
Cosmic Mongoose
^ right on. KISS. Keep the rules elegant and easy. Besides those that feel that you can increase sizes are going to do so anyway with house rules as I do and suppose many also do. Isn't it best to keep the rules on point and especially not restrict player (game) agency without a very good reason and there really is none for that. If players want to spend a Brinks truck to gut the interior of a ship during a major refit, there isn't a reason they can't gut it and expand engine room space for larger components by taking other (cargo) space if they want to or can afford to pay it and of course everything stays without the original hull configuration and tonnage which can not be changed. It would be a lot of work and expensive but it could be done. Major renovations are major.
the other point that should be addressed.. minor refits and the time needed. Minor being the key word. If you want to change out the configuration of living spaces, say take 3 general staterooms in into a couple larger 6T ones, convert a stateroom to library, leave out the total ship costs/time. Just set a fixed rate. A day per MCr.25 of cost or something easy math like that. Minor innovations are minor
the other point that should be addressed.. minor refits and the time needed. Minor being the key word. If you want to change out the configuration of living spaces, say take 3 general staterooms in into a couple larger 6T ones, convert a stateroom to library, leave out the total ship costs/time. Just set a fixed rate. A day per MCr.25 of cost or something easy math like that. Minor innovations are minor
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Yes it would, I would happily remove the size restrictions on major refits. As you say it would legitamise certain Mongoose canonical ships that break their own rules.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
This.
I completely agree.
Minor refits take too long, they should be based on the percentage of the hull being refitted not the total size of the hull.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I agree. I'm just assuming that Mongoose won't change things to match what they do.
I have edited my post to reflect that.
We can hope and it not like they are not doing major changes all we have to do is look at the bridge change to see an example of this.
