Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

[Annatar Giftbringer]

One thing that’d be really nice would be to write the names of each chapter in the margin, like in (some parts of) Glorious Empire

 

[GamingGlen]

Re: selling to new people. I am part owner of a game store, and a terrible salesman. But one thing I can sell is Traveller because I know it so well and love the game (despite a few flaws.. er, pet peeves). I just have to remind my business partner (he does the ordering) to keep a CRB in stock. So new people are buying it. Perhaps one thing to promote is "Traveller is the original 2D6 system" (seems like some new popular RPGs use 2D6 systems). At its core the Traveller skill system is simple. It's all the nuts and bolts and screws and hammers (to fix radios) and laser guns that complicate things.

Re: the Sindal subsector. Yes, remove it. Not everyone plays in the OTU. I see it as a waste of pages, or mostly do since I started looking at PoD to run. But then, the CRB info should be in PoD anyway as well as any Trojan Reach subsector product.

+1 on 2D ship deck plans. If the 3D ones are to show how the decks line up atop each other, then a small inset picture can show that detail.

Re: simple ship design system. I'm not sure there is such a thing. But if you have a list of weapons, make sure there's a pulse-laser-equipped quad turret in the list, so some particular fans can create a specific ship.

 

[Condottiere]

You have to clearly identify your existing customer base, and potential customer base.

With the fractured media market and split human attention span, sometimes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[GamingGlen]

Brainstorming here...

Perhaps a more familiar setting to Terrans should be used in place of the Sindal subsector information for examples of world data and its UWP plus an example for the trade rules: our star system in the year 2097, the year Starleaper One in the OTU went to Barnard's Star. Two worlds would be written: Earth and Mars, with trade codes. Other places in the solar system would be mentioned, mostly mining or research outposts. The trade example would be shipping cargo and passengers from Earth to Mars. A patron would have a write up (example: a collector of very rare items wants someone to go to a Martian historical site and steal one of the now-inactive rovers). Living on Mars could show how life on a barren planet can be done with the right equipment and construction (underground, domes, etc). Unlike certain media, I'd like desolate worlds to be not that easy to walk around in shirt sleeves.

The Starleaper One voyage could have a 3 act scenario: 1) launch with security issues, 2) the jump (mostly boring but could have a saboteur onboard) and reaching the destination, and 3) the return with two choices (OTU: a great secret, or non-OTU: what is discovered which also could have options). What they find at Barnard's Star would be the difference between the OTU and a ref's own universe in the making. Explain that as well. Have a write up of Starleaper One with deck plans and design layout. After thinking about it perhaps the Starleaper One scenario might be a bit long if everything is included. Or it could help a new referee get familiar with things: NPC crew have to be generated so the new ref has to go through chargen a few times, if a simple ship design system is added then Starleaper One can be designed with that system.

And the scenario was all a holo-simulation for someone's history class in the far future. :mrgreen: Hey, why are you pointing that phaser at me? *
(it's the meds, I tell ya! :shock: )

* in case you don't get the reference: Star Trek's Enterprise final episode

 

[Ursus Maior]

Like all scholastic skills, perhaps Medic needs to be a cascade skill, a part of Science ...

Hm, not certain, I would agree completely here. Medic as of now is much more about practice than it is about theory. So, it's a skill that is part acting in certain ways, part Profession and part Science. That's different than a diagnostical science from the point of view of what has to be learned to be considered a good "medical practitioner". But it's certainly a cascade skill.

 

[Ursus Maior]

On Gun Combat yes the main differences in aiming and firing should probably boil down to Handgun, Long Gun and Automatic rather than just Rifle or Pistol - but then you have the problem of the higher TL Long Guns all being automatics as well and where does the SMG fit?

And Gun Combat also covering the recognition and maintenance and repair of guns is the only real justification I can see for making slug and energy weapons into different skills.

I agree with that completely. I would see the SMG in the long gun department, you fire it like a rifle, the barrel is just shorter. That sucks for range, but that's about it. Considering higher TL long guns being automatics as well: yes, you would need both skills then, Auto-Fire and Long Gun. Of course, if you only have "Auto-Fire-2" and no points in "Long Gun", that would give you "Long Gun-2".

There would be still remain these very curious firearms that are true pistols, but have automatic fire capabilites. But since they are rare, why not rule them by a case-by-case basis (e. g. a DM-1 on "Handgun" when shooting in automatic mode). Or let characters use Auto-Fire. That would make the skill very potent, but there's a reason automatic weapons rule supreme on battlefields. Don't bring your grandpa's bolt-action rifle to a shoot-out with modern forces.

 

[Ursus Maior]

Maybe that could be an adventure module or two: "Hunting on 10,000 Worlds": what's legal & what's illegal to hunt, Imperial stance on hunting (probably left to the worlds), a new safari ship and potential NPC crew, a vehicle (to be trampled by some large creature ), a couple of patrons (one to hunt for trophies, another to hunt for pictures/scientific research), and oodles of beasties. Or does one exist and I missed it? (hmm, I am bored, maybe... but my writing sucks... yet...)

Sounds like an excellent contribution for one of the new JTAS volumes. Why don't you send Matt a draft? Seriously, I'd be interested in a bestiary, mabye even an "animal encounter creation system", i. e. a tool to build alien beasts. 8)

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

And thus it is I believe with us grognards - sadly we are indeed dying off one by one and yet our fanaticism is such that we can still sustain a hobby and a subculture that may not be what it once was but has nevertheless still survived everything that the world has thrown at it.

Grognards play CT. New players play MgT.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Capitalism sucks.

Crony capitalism sucks.

But that's why people in IRL businesses learn about marketing, and branding, and brand loyalty, and all that seemingly-unutterably boring stuff they don't teach kids in school.

Schools need to teach "Get Woke, Go Broke."

Traveller is no longer the only SFRPG on the market - it has to compete against Star Trek Adventures, The Expanse RPG, Cyberpunk, Cortex System, Cepheus Engine, TSAO, SWN, and of course the only other serious competition, M-Space.

And all that has to compete with D&D.

Traveller has got to establish its brand to appeal to the younger generations of customers, by giving them what they want.

Marketing to Cancel Culture is certain doom.

Anyway, modern RPGs are technically books now. Schools are teaching that books are bad for the planet. Gen-M Traveller needs to be a phone app RPG. Period. If it is to make a killing of any kind. Other than game collectors, who is buying the books?

 

[alex_greene]

Capitalism sucks.

Full stop.

Schools need to teach

Traveller. Schools need to teach Traveller. Give educational institutions a discount.

Traveller is no longer the only SFRPG on the market - it has to compete against Star Trek Adventures, The Expanse RPG, Cyberpunk, Cortex System, Cepheus Engine, TSAO, SWN, and of course the only other serious competition, M-Space.

Nobody is talking about fantasy gaming here, just SFRPGs.

Traveller has got to establish its brand to appeal to the younger generations of customers, by giving them what they want.

Note: giving them what they want. That's the Free Markets, baby. That's capitalism.

Marketing to Cancel Culture is certain doom

To whom? If customers lap up every Traveller book, and demand adventures, sourcebooks, and settings which are more in line with the mores of 2021, Mongoose would be making a foolish error to deny their paying customers what they are crying out for. From what I can tell, Mongoose are doing just great in reading the room and getting the measure of the buyers.

Other than game collectors, who is buying the books?

Woke Cancel Culture kids. In droves. Because there are hardly any 1st generation grogs around any more.

 

[Being]

I think were getting away from the OP.
"We could tweak the text further too. Now, we are NOT (capital emphasis!) doing a new edition, and we are not going to invalidate any of the supplements and expansions that have come since. But we do have the chance to make some changes and/or additions."

The rules work pretty much as they are, there are already rules in the Companion for optional cascade skills. Please no further skill bloat or minor definition. Where do you stop.? Drive (wheeled), moped, motorbike, car, pickup, bus, 4WD, electric, manual, automatic, artic, and so on..

Ive always had a keen interest in firearms and shooting and some of the firearms descriptions dont really add up. But i dont want the system to go back to individual weapon skills, so you end up with classic characters, with cutlass 1, SMG 1, Steward 1.
The Combat system is really pretty basic and covers a lot of different TL weapons and effect. It does it ok. And its Traveller.

I play other systems for crunch and more simulism. Skills are a broad definition anyway, each level representing a good level of practice/trained skill. Its all abstract really,

 

[AKjeldsen]

Couple of suggestions, involving various degrees of rewriting:

* I was looking at the vehicle combat rules recently, and it stood out to me that RAW, the only way passengers inside a vehicle can take damage is if they are hit by a specific critical hit. (Unless I really missed something, which is entirely possible.) I feel like damage that gets through the armour should at least have a chance of injuring the occupants, especially in case of Blast or Destructive attacks.

* In the trade goods table, some of the trade code price DMs could do with a bit of common sense revision. For instance, it doesn’t really make sense that Petrochemicals are cheap on Desert worlds, since they probably wouldn’t have had the huge amounts of prehistoric organic materials required for that. (Water worlds would be a better source.) Consumables should probably be more valuable on Vacuum and Barren worlds as well. And maybe live animals should be more valuable on Rich planets (pets for rich people). That sort of thing.

* A bit more specifics on electronic warfare and hacking would be nice.

* This is maybe more of a theoretical thing, but the language around skill check effects on p. 59 feels quite old-fashioned in its “failure means failure” model. The tendency in many newer games is to emphasise more of a “failing forward”/“success with a cost” approach, where a failed skill roll helps to propel the narrative onwards, for instance by introducing new complications instead. I’m not suggestion going full FATE by any means (although that is also an excellent game), but perhaps some modification or addition to reflect that there are other and more interesting possible consequences of a failed check than “You don’t get what you want, nothing happens”.

* And finally, 100% support for more inclusive language and art. Personally, I like the model of “Narrator is female, players are male” – as someone else said upstream, it adds inclusiveness *and* clarity. Everyone benefits!

Honestly, this is a discussion that has been repeated over and over again in different parts of the hobby throughout the last decade or more. The arguments are always the same, and it only gets more tedious each time. Companies that are embracing inclusiveness and diversity in their games are doing just fine, and it’s obviously the right thing to do. And I should think that’s really all there needs to be said about that.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I think were getting away from the OP.
"We could tweak the text further too. Now, we are NOT (capital emphasis!) doing a new edition, and we are not going to invalidate any of the supplements and expansions that have come since. But we do have the chance to make some changes and/or additions."

The rules work pretty much as they are, there are already rules in the Companion for optional cascade skills. Please no further skill bloat or minor definition. Where do you stop.? Drive (wheeled), moped, motorbike, car, pickup, bus, 4WD, electric, manual, automatic, artic, and so on..

Ive always had a keen interest in firearms and shooting and some of the firearms descriptions dont really add up. But i dont want the system to go back to individual weapon skills, so you end up with classic characters, with cutlass 1, SMG 1, Steward 1.
The Combat system is really pretty basic and covers a lot of different TL weapons and effect. It does it ok. And its Traveller.

I play other systems for crunch and more simulism. Skills are a broad definition anyway, each level representing a good level of practice/trained skill. Its all abstract really,

Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition has an excellent core game mechanic. I would rather see more genre setting books written that use the MgT2 game mechanic (MgT1 had them), than another re-written core book.

 

[alex_greene]

RAW, the only way passengers inside a vehicle can take damage is if they are hit by a specific critical hit

If it's the Travellers being hit in the vehicle, it'd be a narrative thing. But there have been RL cases where people walked away from car bombs, crashes, and even one case where a cop chasing a bad guy was shot in the face.

For instance, it doesn’t really make sense that Petrochemicals are cheap on Desert worlds, since they probably wouldn’t have had the huge amounts of prehistoric organic materials required for that

A holdover from the 1970s, where the only sources of oil seemed to be countries which were mostly deserts, and there was a real love/hate thing going on between the West and the Middle East ... We now know better, and we kind of know better how petrochemicals came about, and then there's Titan ...

Consumables should probably be more valuable on Vacuum and Barren worlds as well. And maybe live animals should be more valuable on Rich planets (pets for rich people). That sort of thing.

Good point. Bloodstock (beast racing) and livestock (beasts bred for food) are not just the only uses for animals - they do make good companions to some people.

A bit more specifics on electronic warfare and hacking would be nice

The software could do with being looked over, too. Traveller predates the cyberpunk genre. Computers really need to be looked at again. And again ...

This is maybe more of a theoretical thing, but the language around skill check effects on p. 59 feels quite old-fashioned in its “failure means failure” model

A holdover from the days when gaming was just spawning off wargaming. Everything was "you hit or you miss," and no shades of grey - the Effect rule was meant to reflect that, something which first appeared as the result quality rule in the old James Bond 007 game, where the hero would get a result which depended on how well their result beat the target number.

 

[alex_greene]

To this point, I've just been responding to comments. I really need to dust off the CRB again. I was part of the playtest scene that brought Second Ed into the world. I feel like a parent, watching their kid growing up inadequate next to the others in class.

 

[Ursus Maior]

A holdover from the 1970s, where the only sources of oil seemed to be countries which were mostly deserts, and there was a real love/hate thing going on between the West and the Middle East ... We now know better, and we kind of know better how petrochemicals came about, and then there's Titan ...

A bit more specifics on electronic warfare and hacking would be nice

The software could do with being looked over, too. Traveller predates the cyberpunk genre. Computers really need to be looked at again. And again ...

I think, from time to time publishers giving us new Traveller goodness need to commit themselves to the legacy of Traveller's history, which is deeply rooted in the 1970s of US science-fiction and wargaming ideas. Or they do not commit themselves to it and alter the legacy, which would be absolutely their prerogative, of course. Either way, fans need to be fine with it, if they want to remain with a certain product line (again: or not).

One simply cannot have the cake and eat it, which of course we all know, but need to remind us once in a while. I for one appreciate clearly communicated strategic decisions on part of publishers about such a decision. Although I could understand, if these things are not as easy to do, when a business needs to be run on basis of these publications.

Anyway, how 1970s GDW looked upon Middle Eastern countries and oil as a resource and energy storage, could easily be revised, without altering the "look and feel" of Traveller.

I hope, the upcoming Mercenary supplement will deliver rules for hacking and electronic warfare. I could see how this would hurt a more classic 1970s Traveller feel however. Electronic warfare in the 1970s was mostly big military stuff and the domain of airforce and (wet) navy assets. Today, in 2021, this is a very different thing and winning new players, who know nothing about vintage electronic warfare as practiced by their grandfathers in the post-Vietnam War era, are unlikely to subscribe to the idea of clunky big consoles and antennas being used for brute force electronic warfare, when they might have learned about backdoors, malware scripts and data-security protocols in their applied sciences university classes.

 

[Old School]

Man, at this rate its going to be up to 400 pages (not saying that’s a bad thing). Of course, when its released the first comment on DriveThru will be somebody complaining that it doesn’t have ship building rules in it.

 

[ochd]

I feel like a parent, watching their kid growing up inadequate next to the others in class.

I feel your pain. If I've understood your analogy correctly, I think on the contrary you can be very proud of contributing to a ruleset that has given people like me many hours of fun. There's a lot about the CRB that can be improved, but same goes for any RPG set of rules. The CRB is far from inadequate, and does much better than the other kids in the class, especially when you account for those kids with extremely rich parents.

I'm not an RPG, or even Traveller, connoisseur, but hope the note of appreciation counts all the same

Dan.

 

[Gavain]

I think everyone makes good points that I wont rehash. I have an additional frustration with the vehicle rules. The rates of acceleration of all vehicles are the same. A TL3 traction engine is the same as a TL15 Grav bike! Because of the increasing speed ranges in each speed band the rate of acceleration increases as you get closer to your maximum speed. This is completely opposite to the real world, where you maximum acceleration is at your lowest speeds. I don't see that there is a simple calculation that used the speed band and would suggest that there should be a lookup table for each ultimate speed band giving the speeds achieved for each round.

 

[GamingGlen]

Re: trade goods
De doesn't mean the planet was always De. Mars is now presumed to have water on its surface in the distant past. Perhaps a huge amount of petrochemicals lay under Martian sand waiting to be exploited?

Live animals as an import or export is going to be a law level condition. There's the threat of non-native species taking over an environment and displacing the native ones. Smuggling live animals will probably be a more lucrative prospect than trading said animals.