Traveller SRD....Magic Anyone?

[DaltonCalford]

Since Traveller is becoming a SRD based game, has anyone given any thought to using the game mechanics for other genres, such as gothic, modern, historic or even fantasy?

The original traveller had writeups done for Thieves world by Marc Miller with a magic skill used for the wizards.

A modern game could be placed in a TL7 environment.

What do you guys think - are the rules good enough to cover other settings?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Traveller traditionally has Psionics. Whether Mongoose will add them to the SRD at some future point in time is not known. Anyone could create a magic system using the base Traveller rules and release them as OGL.

Are the rules good enough to handle other generes, yea... I don't see why not. If d6 can do fantasy and d20 can do future, why can't Traveller?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I think Traveller could easily be adapted to a Low Tech setting. The humanoid races become parts of scattered humaniti (like the Daryens and Vilani and Elves). The rules already handle the low tech skills. With a little expansion of some of the low tech stuff (like blacksmithing, carpentry etc) and elimination of the high tech skills it could work.

Conan and probably even Gloriantha could be adapted (heresy I know).

Magic COULD be psionics and high tech.

A "wand of magic missiles" could be a laser pistol.

CJ Cherryh even wrote a series of books "the Gate books" about a high tech heroine who goes through these space/time gates and encounters a lot of low tech societies and her solar powered laser pistol is a magic wand...

Grav Belts become "belts of flying" etc. Heck, BattleDress becomes magic armor (it can even talk to you!).

It could easily work and in the New Era setting might actually exist within the OTU.

 

[DaltonCalford]

I think that magic and psionics should be considered separate mediums.

Psionics as they are portrayed in traveller are simply another form of science, with measured abilities and results. It is very predictable(deterministic).

Magic on the other hand, should be non-deterministic. Spells should not have any guarentee of working and their level of effect should be very difficult to control. The "feel" of magic should be one of shock and awe and not just another regular thing. That is one thing that made me stop playing D20 was that the magic system, did not feel magical.

Something like throw four dice, two represent the regular throw, one represents the alternate die and one represents the wild die.
If the wild die is 1-2, the alternate die is used as the effect, 3-4 the alternate die is used as the time, 5-6 the alternate die is not used.

(just a quick off the top idea- not playtested)

But I do agree about the skills needing to be tweeked as well as the types of backgrounds available.

I wonder what ones fit in with the game mechanics.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I would think that it would be pretty easy to create a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue etc. Any class/background that uses magic would depend on the magic system decided upon.

Just about any historical background should be able to be mapped.

I would make the Mechanical skill Carpentry and the Electronics skill Metalworking

Pilot becomes the skill to maneuver and operate a sailing vessel. Ship's Boat skill becomes the skill to operate an oar-powered vessel (think saltwater and freshwater vessels). Astrogator disappears but now Navigator becomes MUCH more important. Survival(type) is the predominate skill for wilderness types. Weapons skills map easily with Gun Combat becoming Bow Combat. Admin and all that other stuff should cross without effort.

Computer might become "Scribing" or "Cyphering" representing writing and "advanced" math.

 

[EDG]

I don't think there should be a magic system in Traveller. SF has psionics (i.e. weird powers of the mind) filling that niche, not magic (i.e. control of extradimensional or supernatural energies or abilities granted by supernatural entities).

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

But the psionic ability of Pyrokinesis (heat control) is going to look an awful lot like magic when a PSI steps into a room, waves his arms around and suddenly all the candles in the room light.

Teleportation sure sounds like magic to me.

But, I agree, in basic Traveller, magic should not be considered. BUT, down the road, if the Traveller system is to be expanded beyond it's SciFi roots, a magic system would make sense at that time.

 

[captainjack23]

Yeah, at present, Traveller should only have "Magic in the eye of the beholder".

A low tech world would be equally impressed by a cold light stick or pyrokinesis...and a high tech world would still be potentially boggled by Psionic powers.

Really, Psionics fits the"it is a scientific phenomenon, we just don't understand it, yet " paradigm, rather than the "who knows how, but this is what it does, duck" style of FRP magical phenomenon.


low tech world with some psionic population = adventure bait. Zhodani agents, evil local cultists, actual effects caused by quaint local rituals and over all the imperial official secrets act to protect the "populace".....cool.

 

[captainjack23]

FWIW, there's a pretty good start at a swords and sorcery/classical Traveller system on the COTI forums.

 

[DaltonCalford]

I am more interested in a Call of Chuthulu or Dresden Files type system, and less a sword and sorcery motif.

The concept of a magic system being a natural for the Traveller game system (not OTU) comes down to the players and their personal beliefs over whether the universe is deterministic or non-deterministic.

Funnily enough, most people do not even know their own beliefs in this matter.

 

[captainjack23]

I am more interested in a Call of Chuthulu or Dresden Files type system, and less a sword and sorcery motif.

The concept of a magic system being a natural for the Traveller game system (not OTU) comes down to the players and their personal beliefs over whether the universe is deterministic or non-deterministic.

Funnily enough, most people do not even know their own beliefs in this matter.

I do !


And, BTW, my belief in the real world need not correspond to how I model a fake world.... :wink:

 

[AKAramis]

I am more interested in a Call of Chuthulu or Dresden Files type system, and less a sword and sorcery motif.

The concept of a magic system being a natural for the Traveller game system (not OTU) comes down to the players and their personal beliefs over whether the universe is deterministic or non-deterministic.

Funnily enough, most people do not even know their own beliefs in this matter.

CT, MT, TNE, T4, and T20 all do have a Magic system. It's called Psionics.

 

[EDG]

CT, MT, TNE, T4, and T20 all do have a Magic system. It's called Psionics.

What Traveller has is a psionics system, not a magic system. One's internal, the other's external.

In roleplaying terms, Psionics is a supernatural way for the human mind to affect the world around it by the power of will alone. It needs nothing but concentration and inherent ability to work.

Magic is a system whereby humans can control the world around them by harnessing some kind of external supernatural energy, be it "mana" or "divine will" or whatever. It needs a lot of training, but generally anyone can potentially be trained to use magic.

And while you can probably do a lot of psionic effects with magic effects (and vice versa) they're not going to manifest the same way and they're going to influence the setting in a different way too. A pyrotechnic just looks at you funny and you burst into flames, and he can usually just do that without much training. A mage would have to cast a spell at you, which took years of learning and could go wrong if he screws it up, and may even forget the spell afterwards.

It's a subtle difference but an important one I think.

 

[Border Reiver]

Clarke's Law anyone?
:twisted:

 

[EDG]

Clarke's Law anyone?
:twisted:

...doesn't matter. It's still advanced technology (which we have oodles of in Traveller), not magic.

 

[AKAramis]

CT, MT, TNE, T4, and T20 all do have a Magic system. It's called Psionics.

What Traveller has is a psionics system, not a magic system. One's internal, the other's external.
[snip]
It's a subtle difference but an important one I think.

Nope.

It is a system for producing supernatural effects. The methodology is a special effect. It's as much magic as D&D fireballs.

Having run a few fantasy scenarios using MT, Psionics differs from magic only in explanation... the MT psionics rules do just fine as a Magic system, unless one calls it a psionics system. The internal/external difference is meaningless in play.

 

[EDG]

Having run a few fantasy scenarios using MT, Psionics differs from magic only in explanation... the MT psionics rules do just fine as a Magic system, unless one calls it a psionics system. The internal/external difference is meaningless in play.

Nobody's specified anything about whether it's meaningful in play or not though. The title of the thread contains the words "...magic anyone?", not "...a system for generic supernatural effects anyone?". Maybe the OP meant the latter, but if so it wasn't clear.

I maintain though that there is a practical difference between magic and psionics. Maybe not in the mechanics, but in the effects that they have on the setting itself (how people react to practitioners of them, laws against them, etc).

In D&D, people don't expect a wizard to read their mind, they expect him to summon monsters or fry them with a fireball. But if they see a psionicist nearby then suddenly they're going to be very careful about what they think or do, because they really won't see anything coming - they'll just feel their minds invaded (or not), or suddenly burst into flames for no apparent reason when he looks at them. You know where you stand with a wizard, but not with a psionicist.

 

[Border Reiver]

Clarke's Law anyone?
:twisted:

...doesn't matter. It's still advanced technology (which we have oodles of in Traveller), not magic.

Yes it does, that's the whole point of the law. It and its corollary by Niven state that they are indistinguishable.

I've used a magic system for Traveller back in the early 90's which was based directly on the MT Psionics rules. I added lots of spells which came from various disciplines; Elementalism, Necromancy, Illusionism (or sometimes Glamour), Divination, Invocation/Summoning, Alchemy and Sorcery. They each had point costs and difficulty tasks. All written back in the days of not having access to a computer but it still exists in an old hardback lab book and my handwriting is pretty neat so I may be able to OCR it with some effort and editing.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Magic, as a fantasy trope, can be anything you want it to be.

 

[Border Reiver]

Well said.