Sorry, what is the reason for that?
Traveller Release Schedule 2023
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
They're terrible. It feels like they were written reflecting a modern understanding of how dangerious gas giants are.
with rules as written, its very foolish to very depsperate to try and and wild refuel them.
Unless you're a well skilled pilot in the +3 range its very possible to get stuck in layers unable to esacpe and die.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
That’s an in game choice you make. Not a reason to remove the rules though.
Anyway, what I’d like to request for the future is a book, designed around a lab ship, which has rules for doing experimental science. Basically, a sort of ‘mad science’ book mirroring the work done by wizards in Ars Magica - but with scientists in space. Not sure the best place to request this, but here we are.
Seems like a good set of rules to use if you want to have more fuel purchased rather than skimmed. Travel time from port to gas giant is already a good reason for that, but making wilderness refueling more dangerous can help if you don't feel that's enough. And if you don't like them, you just don't use them. But it seems like a bad idea to deny them to folks who do like them just because they don't suit some referees.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It's a direct consequence of task library-itus - the perceived need to have a dice roll for every action.
In most versions of Traveller gas giant skimming is so routine it is narrated. But this is Mongoose, the rool of kewel says there must be a roll of the dice.
Trouble is the task difficulty is set far too high, it should be so routine for a trained pilot to skim from a gas giant that you have to roll a natural 2 a couple of times in a row. By making it a task you are likely to fail if repeated a few times then the next rule of dice rolls for everything pops up - over time you will fail if you keep rolling dice.
The main reason I disliked MegaTraveller was the task roll bloat - Mongoose appears to be going the same way.
Think of this - how many planes fly everyday - how many take off and landings - how many accidents even in bad weather.
Now apply the MgT task system - no one would ever get on a plane again.
But this thread is for release schedule rather than discussing rules intent
In most versions of Traveller gas giant skimming is so routine it is narrated. But this is Mongoose, the rool of kewel says there must be a roll of the dice.
Trouble is the task difficulty is set far too high, it should be so routine for a trained pilot to skim from a gas giant that you have to roll a natural 2 a couple of times in a row. By making it a task you are likely to fail if repeated a few times then the next rule of dice rolls for everything pops up - over time you will fail if you keep rolling dice.
The main reason I disliked MegaTraveller was the task roll bloat - Mongoose appears to be going the same way.
Think of this - how many planes fly everyday - how many take off and landings - how many accidents even in bad weather.
Now apply the MgT task system - no one would ever get on a plane again.
But this thread is for release schedule rather than discussing rules intent
ProfGrizzlyJon
Cosmic Mongoose
Have you looked at the Research Rules in the Deepnight Revelation series? Specifically Chapter Ten, in the Referee Handbook. I use that all of the time now (it replaced the rules from Book 10: Cosmopolite, although they have a great reference for small scale projects)
I built a modular lab ship for that purpose (Granted, it used the Retrotech I posted on in a different thread) and have added laboratory and research modules for a "corporate sponsored research" campaign:
| Item | Description | Notes | Tonnage | Price (MCr) |
| Hull | 360 Tons, Dispersed Structure | 130 Hull Points | 9 | |
| Modular Hull | Has seven connecting mounts that can handle 30-50ton modules, up to the 400-ton capacity. | 210 | 4.725 | |
| Armour | Advanced Solar Coating (main core only) | TL-12, Power:11 | 22.4 | |
| Radiation Shielding (main core only) | -1000rads | 0.35 | ||
| Jump Drive | Jump 2 (TL11) | 25 | 37.5 | |
| M-Drive | Thrust 2 (TL9) | 4 | 4 | |
| Power Plant | Fusion (TL15), Power 180 | 9 | 18 | |
| Fuel | J-1 (400t), 4 weeks of operation | 40.5 | ||
| Bridge | Hardened by Shielding | 20 | 1.8 | |
| Computer | Core/50/fib (TL-15 Retrotech) | - | 2.8125 | |
| Electronics | Enhanced Signal Processing Station | 2 | 8 | |
| Sensors | Improved w/Extended Array | 9 | 12.9 | |
| Sensor Station | 1 | 0.5 | ||
| Weapons | ||||
| Craft | Air/raft | 0.25 | ||
| Docking Space (4 tons) | 5 | 1.25 | ||
| Docking Clamp (Type II) | Handles 31-99 tons of small craft | 5 | 1 | |
| Docking Clamp (Type III) | Handles 100-300 tons of starship | 10 | 2 | |
| Research Pinnace (docking clamp) | 0 | 9.825 | ||
| ATV (on Pinnace) | 0 | 3 | ||
| Systems | Advanced Probe Drones x15 | 3 | 2.25 | |
| Staterooms | High | Administrator-Captain | 6 | 5 |
| Standard x2 | Pilot, Engineer | 8 | 5 | |
| Double-Occupancy x3 | Medic, Steward, Small Craft Pilot, Mechanic, Sensor Operator x2 | 12 | 5 | |
| Common Areas | Administrator's Office | Advanced Entertainment System | 2 | 1 |
| Standard | 4.5 | 1 | ||
| Workshop | 6 | 0.9 | ||
| Library | 4 | 4 | ||
| Medical Bay | 4 | 2 | ||
| Cargo Hold | 10 | |||
| Total | Cost | |||
| 400 | 148.91625 |
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ProfGrizzlyJon
Cosmic Mongoose
Shucks- I realized that I may have co-opted this thread...mea culpa
I think they are just presented wrong with "deep skimming" as the one with the baseline time to complete. If you presented Shallow Skimming or whatever the safe one is as the typical time (even if that's still 2x the deep skim time) and then the more dangerous deeper skimming as faster, then it wouldn't be that bad. Then the typically routine skimming is the "taking extra time on top of that for +2" action.It's a direct consequence of task library-itus - the perceived need to have a dice roll for every action.
In most versions of Traveller gas giant skimming is so routine it is narrated. But this is Mongoose, the rool of kewel says there must be a roll of the dice.
Trouble is the task difficulty is set far too high, it should be so routine for a trained pilot to skim from a gas giant that you have to roll a natural 2 a couple of times in a row. By making it a task you are likely to fail if repeated a few times then the next rule of dice rolls for everything pops up - over time you will fail if you keep rolling dice.
The main reason I disliked MegaTraveller was the task roll bloat - Mongoose appears to be going the same way.
Think of this - how many planes fly everyday - how many take off and landings - how many accidents even in bad weather.
Now apply the MgT task system - no one would ever get on a plane again.
But this thread is for release schedule rather than discussing rules intent
The idea of giving players the opportunity to do more with the skimming and with evading in gas giant atmospheres is good. But as you say, the implication that deep skimming is the default makes the task difficulties too high.
paltrysum
Emperor Mongoose
Sounds like working as intended. Otherwise, why sell fuel at starports? Skimming is an option, and should not be attempted by amateurs.
IIRC, it's a Difficult Pilot check, which isn't that hard to make, though skilled pilots have failed the roll in my games. For story purposes, I don't have them plunge into the gas giant, but they did do damage to the ship that required some repairs.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Well, the rules are presented in the Traveller Companion, however - a book of optional rules. If it isn’t a core rule, and you don’t want to use them....don’t!It's a direct consequence of task library-itus - the perceived need to have a dice roll for every action.
In most versions of Traveller gas giant skimming is so routine it is narrated. But this is Mongoose, the rool of kewel says there must be a roll of the dice.
Trouble is the task difficulty is set far too high, it should be so routine for a trained pilot to skim from a gas giant that you have to roll a natural 2 a couple of times in a row. By making it a task you are likely to fail if repeated a few times then the next rule of dice rolls for everything pops up - over time you will fail if you keep rolling dice.
The main reason I disliked MegaTraveller was the task roll bloat - Mongoose appears to be going the same way.
Think of this - how many planes fly everyday - how many take off and landings - how many accidents even in bad weather.
Now apply the MgT task system - no one would ever get on a plane again.
But this thread is for release schedule rather than discussing rules intent
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
This is a good point to note in the Deepnight Campaign (making me quickly go and dig it up!).
It would be good to make a more generic sourcebook for running lab ships generally though, I think. Also, we should have a Mutants sourcebook.
Isn't that listed as part of Mysteries of the Ancients? (not necessarily the research rules, but an update of Research Station Gamma).
Just a little rescheduling, no biggie.
There are also (different) rules for gas giant skimming in the Drinaxian Companion. My current (Drinax) campaign is using those. It might be an idea to have both alternatives, along with something of a restatement of the "how to handle this if you don't want to bother" rules (from the core rulebook):
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
In my game, every point of negative effect is a critical hit and time lost. The pilot who botched the roll has to determine their fate with the offending dice... just to push the pressure and superstition of bad dice...
Every positive point of effect is time saved.
Jakovian
Banded Mongoose
Hi,
"I don't know much, so I'll give my opinion." I've been playing Traveller for a short time - about three years, unfortunately, I didn't get my hands on it earlier. I've been playing since '93.
What I miss in the game, or in the Mongoose publishing line:
a) large ships - there are only a few ships with a capacity of over 10,000 tons of cargo. Some worlds require millions of tons of goods (e.g., food) from outside the system.
b) description of intra-system transport
c) few technical, mining, and rescue ships - mainly military or commercial ships appear
d) space bases
e) list of all equipment, goods, ships, vehicles, etc. - I have all the supplements, but browsing through them is... problematic
f) I understand that you like to apply a kind of recycling of supplements - in Cyberpunk2020, there was once an addition with all the weapons. Think about how many such supplements you can release
g) description of networks, the internet - at these TLs, there is VR and AR... How to hack them? How long does it take?
h) methods of defending a system or planet. In my opinion, there is no coherent mechanics for how a TL10 system with 100,000 people can protect itself from pirates.
"I don't know much, so I'll give my opinion." I've been playing Traveller for a short time - about three years, unfortunately, I didn't get my hands on it earlier. I've been playing since '93.
What I miss in the game, or in the Mongoose publishing line:
a) large ships - there are only a few ships with a capacity of over 10,000 tons of cargo. Some worlds require millions of tons of goods (e.g., food) from outside the system.
b) description of intra-system transport
c) few technical, mining, and rescue ships - mainly military or commercial ships appear
d) space bases
e) list of all equipment, goods, ships, vehicles, etc. - I have all the supplements, but browsing through them is... problematic
f) I understand that you like to apply a kind of recycling of supplements - in Cyberpunk2020, there was once an addition with all the weapons. Think about how many such supplements you can release
g) description of networks, the internet - at these TLs, there is VR and AR... How to hack them? How long does it take?
h) methods of defending a system or planet. In my opinion, there is no coherent mechanics for how a TL10 system with 100,000 people can protect itself from pirates.
There has been a minor shuffle on the release schedule, and a new book added
There are quite a few large ships scattered about. But they are rarely focused on because they are almost always background material. Those ships have huge crews, so they would really only come up as adventure settings unless you were playing the merchant equivalent of Star Trek bridge crew. That's not super helpful, but there are stats (if not deckplans) for those ginormous corporate freighters out there. The largest I know of off the top of my head with an actual floorplan is the Skander, which is a 4000 ton. But I know there are at least stats for Tukera ships in the 10k ton range, I just don't remember where, since I don't personally have a use for them.Hi,
"I don't know much, so I'll give my opinion." I've been playing Traveller for a short time - about three years, unfortunately, I didn't get my hands on it earlier. I've been playing since '93.
What I miss in the game, or in the Mongoose publishing line:
a) large ships - there are only a few ships with a capacity of over 10,000 tons of cargo. Some worlds require millions of tons of goods (e.g., food) from outside the system.
b) description of intra-system transport
c) few technical, mining, and rescue ships - mainly military or commercial ships appear
d) space bases
e) list of all equipment, goods, ships, vehicles, etc. - I have all the supplements, but browsing through them is... problematic
f) I understand that you like to apply a kind of recycling of supplements - in Cyberpunk2020, there was once an addition with all the weapons. Think about how many such supplements you can release
g) description of networks, the internet - at these TLs, there is VR and AR... How to hack them? How long does it take?
h) methods of defending a system or planet. In my opinion, there is no coherent mechanics for how a TL10 system with 100,000 people can protect itself from pirates.
What do you want in the way of intersystem transport? Its not much different than star travel if the journey is more than a day or so. Small craft are used for short journeys along the lines of intercontinental airline travel today. Journeys of a few days are usually in otherwise normal starships, just with more cabins because don't need jump fuel. If the journey's a week or more (like going from Earth to Neptune, which is 11 days at Maneuver 2 and like 7 days at 5G (assuming the website I use to calculate that stuff is actually correct
). So you would just make a Jump 0 for that type of trip unless the cost of fuel was really a problem.There are a few mining sheps out there. Mysteries on Arcturus Station involves two of them heavily. I think there might be some in Beltstrike, but don't quote me on that. Obviously, the seeker is a mining version of the scout/courier. The ship the PCs start on in Flatlined is an non jump ore carrier. Its just not concentrated in one book, unfortunately.
For space stations, there are some excellent products by various Cepheus Engine folks that are fully compatible with Traveller. Again, there's a handful of stations scattered around in various adventures for official stuff.
Mongoose Traveller 1e had a moderately detailed hacking system in their supplement "Scoundrels" as part of the heist rules.
I don't think anyone has given serious thought to how to defend a planet from the kinds of weapons that would be available in traveller, other than ships and satellite weapons platforms. The general assumption has been that if the system has those kinds of things, you aren't doing that as a pirate, its navy action.
