Traveller 5E

They're already at almost 1,200 registered interest, so it is beginning to look like it might turn out to be a smart move to expand interest in the game.
Depends on how many of those people are us. :P

But it was never a bad idea to license the game out, though I don't personally like how all the other game systems set in Charted Space are just called "Traveller". But that's not related to whether it will do well or not.

Mongoose isn't going to lose money on a deal like this.
 
Yeah. There's 0% chance that I'll play it. I haven't played D&D or any of its derivative systems since AD&D 1e (outside of computer games). And I already like Traveller's core system. But it if has material that isn't just the same Spinward Marches reprints (like how T20 and GURPS covered other regions and timelines) I'll find it worth reading.
 
Yeah. There's 0% chance that I'll play it. I haven't played D&D or any of its derivative systems since AD&D 1e (outside of computer games). And I already like Traveller's core system. But it if has material that isn't just the same Spinward Marches reprints (like how T20 and GURPS covered other regions and timelines) I'll find it worth reading.
Same here, but if you look at some of the most regular posters on these fine forums you’ll quickly spot that Mongoose makes a lot of money selling product to people who don’t “play” Traveller in the sense of sitting down with others and going through adventures together.

Like you, I hope there will be fresh content to read: given the size of the product that’s being hinted at, this seems possible.
 
Same here, but if you look at some of the most regular posters on these fine forums you’ll quickly spot that Mongoose makes a lot of money selling product to people who don’t “play” Traveller in the sense of sitting down with others and going through adventures together.
Yup. RPGs without the P or G (and not much R either to be honest) :)
 
Back when I was I involved in a couple of 5e games about 10 years ago, a Cyberpunk2020 game came together and I jumped in that and then ironically someone released a very good looking and high productions standards game of “Cyberpunk” for 5e. I picked up the pdf and gave it a go and…

It sucked. Sexy art and vibes but a mess of a layout, tons of page-flipping trying to make a character. Unintuitive flow to the rules overall and a forgettable non-setting. Can’t find it right now but I will and post the actual title for others to check out or not.

I mention it because I’m actually very intrigued by Traveller 5e, not because I think I’ll play it but just to see how they translate the mechanics. The cyberpunk thing I mentioned doesn’t bode well for Sci fi 5e but the guy doing it seems to have some serious chops so I wish him luck.
 
I have one group who refused to play Traveller with 2d6. They will play it if I use BRP rules, Aftermath rules, d20M/F, YZE dice pool and or step die, even Genesys.
I can kinda see that. 2D6 as a system is creaking at the seams. It was OK when it was 2D6+skill+stat. But with cyberware now in the game and boosting both stats and skills, and with ways to get extra bonuses through equipment (expert systems, specialised computers, medical equipment etc) and the ability to take time over many tasks, it is often trivial to achieve at least the +6 which, RAW, makes any skill check redundant. Skill chaining can make this easy even for skills where the party only boast +4 or even +3.

This is not a complaint about the equipment, the ability to improve skills and stats through experience, the taking your time mechanic nor skill chains. They are all great. It boils down to the narrow range of possibilities offered by 2D6. 2D10, for instance, with a base target of 11 or even 12, would allow for parties who invest time and currency in their characters, and who learn the game well enough to use everything available to them to improve their odds, while still making the bulk of skill checks at basic difficulty carry at least some risk of failure.
 
36 potential outcomes with 2d6 is greatly desirable over a single d20 and it breaks down into a bell curve of not just success or failure but marginal, average, and extreme in both directions. I agree a proliferation of dice modifiers is no fun, but 5E is certainly just as bad about that.
 
You don't have 36 "outcomes" you have 12 "outcomes" with a not quite standard distribution spread. A roll of 1 and 3 is different to a roll of 3 and 1 yet the outcome is 4.

To have 36 outcomes you would have to read the dice as die a then die b in which case you get a flat probability of 36 outcomes rather then the flat probability of the d20.

The "bell curve" of 2d6 is not a bell curve, that said 67% of the rolls you make will be 5 to 9 (within the one standard deviation bound), two standard deviation give a spread of 2 to 12 so your "outcomes" on your die roll fall into
2 standard deviations below mean - 2->4
1 standard deviation below mean - 5->6
mean 7
1 standard deviation above mean - 8->9
2 standard deviations above mean - 10->12

By setting the standard task target number as 8 you get a flat percentage chance of succeeding on your 2d6 roll of 42%. DMs now have a massive effect on this, DMs of 1->3 are just about containable, but as Endie says it is now typical for a PC to have a minimum of a +5 bonus (equipment, expert program, augmentation) before adding characteristic and skill level.

Using a d20 you would set the target number as 13.

To map Traveller difficulty target numbers to the target numbers of a d20 roll we get something like this:

Traveller target number24681012
d20 target number equivalence126131720
 
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What RPG doesn't have the aspect of obtaining bonuses via equipment, magic, technology in it? It isn't the dice mechanic for resolving the situation that is the problem. Players will find ways to ensure they do not fail a role because that's not "winning".
 
You don't have 36 "outcomes" you have 12 "outcomes" with a not quite standard distribution spread. A roll of 1 and 3 is different to a roll of 3 and 1 yet the outcome is 4.
You still have 36 outcomes, it's just many of them equate to each other.

If you are claiming that it is only the total number that is considered the outcomes then for a skill check of 8+ you might just as well say you have two outcomes, Pass or Fail since 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 are the same outcome, Pass and 7 or less are all Fail. If you are using gross effect there are a maximum of 6 outcomes from Exceptional Fail to Exceptional Success. If you are using effect number (e.g. for damage) on an 8+ roll then that could be 6 outcomes of 0 to +4 plus Fail or if you are measuring the level of failure it might be even more outcomes as the fail is also graduated. In a skill chain there are 6 outcomes as they are rendered to -3 to +3, but depending on the difficulty man of those might be out of scope.

With a boon or bane then you are treating it as 2 dice (or 3 really) and then assessing the final score. This moves the 2d6 roll into something far more interesting.

You could play the same games with a D20 as ultimately "outcome" is a game effect that is dependent on some interpreted number.

If all you players have all the toys and are making skill checks at +5 then why are you requiring them to roll routine checks anyway. They should be making them every time. Traveller was a roll by exception game.

If you are bothered by the power of augments then don't play traveller like a cyber punk game. If you are then it is entirely reasonable to apply severe difficulties to the activities that require cyber wear to achieve.

Also Traveller characters are retirees and aren't expected to advance significantly after retirement. Once you get to double figures for level in 5th things start to become easy if you continue throwing the same challenges you did when the characters were 1st level. Conventionally Travellers are already high level. If you send a marine with 5 terms under his belt into a combat zone, you would expect him to survive - since he has survived 20 years of similar activity already. He should be hitting with nigh on every shot at normal combat ranges. That won't help him find a fault in some software or help him sail a boat.

You can play quite happily with moderate challenges after only a single term. It is an obsession with "you are only competent once you are getting a skill DM of +2" and then insisting on playing scenarios where those are the only challenges that is the problem.
 
What RPG doesn't have the aspect of obtaining bonuses via equipment, magic, technology in it? It isn't the dice mechanic for resolving the situation that is the problem. Players will find ways to ensure they do not fail a role because that's not "winning".
The 2d6 system breaks down when you have a bonus of +6 before adding characteristic and skill for a standard target number of 8+
 
You still have 36 outcomes, it's just many of them equate to each other.
No, a roll of 2d6 has 12 outcomes, a roll of "d66" has 36 outcomes, each with a flat percentage of ~3%
If you are claiming that it is only the total number that is considered the outcomes then for a skill check of 8+ you might just as well say you have two outcomes, Pass or Fail since 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 are the same outcome, Pass and 7 or less are all Fail.
Not the same thing at all, stop for a moment and think about what you are saying.

An 8+ target number has a 42% chance of success with no modifiers, if you want to consider it as two potential outcomes then success is 42%, fail is 58%.
If you are using gross effect there are a maximum of 6 outcomes from Exceptional Fail to Exceptional Success.
Exceptional is usually for more than 2 standard deviations, but the limits of the 2d6 roll don't allow for that.
If you are using effect number (e.g. for damage) on an 8+ roll then that could be 6 outcomes of 0 to +4 plus Fail or if you are measuring the level of failure it might be even more outcomes as the fail is also graduated. In a skill chain there are 6 outcomes as they are rendered to -3 to +3, but depending on the difficulty man of those might be out of scope.
Six successful outcomes, each with their own percentage chance of occurrence.
With a boon or bane then you are treating it as 2 dice (or 3 really) and then assessing the final score. This moves the 2d6 roll into something far more interesting.
Boon and bane are a great mechanic, what isn't so great is a PC with a DM of+10 rolling against a standard target of 8... this is especially noticeable in space combat.

I think that greater use of the boon/bane mechanic in place of stacking DMs would create a better resolution system for 2d6.
You could play the same games with a D20 as ultimately "outcome" is a game effect that is dependent on some interpreted number.
Or use percentile dice.
If all you players have all the toys and are making skill checks at +5 then why are you requiring them to roll routine checks anyway. They should be making them every time. Traveller was a roll by exception game.
The game assumes a standard difficulty of 8+, perhaps shifting the standard difficulty to 12+ would make for a "better game".
If you are bothered by the power of augments then don't play traveller like a cyber punk game. If you are then it is entirely reasonable to apply severe difficulties to the activities that require cyber wear to achieve.
You don't get to tell me how to play or referee, all I am pointing out is what is allowed by the rules as written. Traveller characters with cyberware and other augments are becoming street level super heroes rather than blue collar space workers...

You should see how augmented some of the characters in my Culture setting are.
Also Traveller characters are retirees and aren't expected to advance significantly after retirement. Once you get to double figures for level in 5th things start to become easy if you continue throwing the same challenges you did when the characters were 1st level. Conventionally Travellers are already high level. If you send a marine with 5 terms under his belt into a combat zone, you would expect him to survive - since he has survived 20 years of similar activity already. He should be hitting with nigh on every shot at normal combat ranges. That won't help him find a fault in some software or help him sail a boat.
A 5 term marine and a 1 term scout both face the same chances when their opponent snipes them from surprise with a laser rifle...
You can play quite happily with moderate challenges after only a single term. It is an obsession with "you are only competent once you are getting a skill DM of +2" and then insisting on playing scenarios where those are the only challenges that is the problem.
The problem as I see it is the game allowing easy access to very high DMs via equipment and augmentation.
 
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Same here, but if you look at some of the most regular posters on these fine forums you’ll quickly spot that Mongoose makes a lot of money selling product to people who don’t “play” Traveller in the sense of sitting down with others and going through adventures together.

Like you, I hope there will be fresh content to read: given the size of the product that’s being hinted at, this seems possible.
I didn't say I didn't play and I also think the distinction between those with an active campaign and those without is pointless and irrelevant. All I said I wouldn't be playing *this* ruleset.
 
The problem as I see it is the game allowing easy access to very high DMs via equipment and augmentation.
Yeah, if you just apply everything that can be applied, then you quickly break the mechanics. Or you have to make the task checks for pretty much everything increasingly difficult.

I don't give bonuses for equipment. Equipment lets you do things that you couldn't do without the equipment. Or changes the definition of success. An Awareness check is an Awareness check, but the result of that check will be different if you are using Mark 1 Eyeball or an advanced sensor visor.
 
I didn't say I didn't play and I also think the distinction between those with an active campaign and those without is pointless and irrelevant. All I said I wouldn't be playing *this* ruleset.
I'm confused where you think I said you didn't play.

On the wider point, there is a big difference between those who aren't in an active campaign right now, and those who never play the game with others any more.

"Playing" the game by collecting books, learning and discussing canon, or arguing on forums are all perfectly valid, but the point of view you sometimes get is one from people who don't play the game with others and who therefore don't always fully realise the practical effect of rule changes that they suggest. You see this most often with the ardent simulationists.
 
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You didn't say that I specifically don't play, but you made a general comment about regular posters who "don't play" that was also not specific.

But the actual point is that I think this distinction that you bring up semi-regularly is unimportant and serves no purpose. And I don't want my comment about not playing 5e to be associated with that mindset.
 
You didn't say that I specifically don't play, but you made a general comment about regular posters who "don't play" that was also not specific.

But the actual point is that I think this distinction that you bring up semi-regularly is unimportant and serves no purpose. And I don't want my comment about not playing 5e to be associated with that mindset.
Ooookay
 
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