Training new skills after chargen
- Thread starter CosmicGamer
- Start date
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Thank you for pointing that out. Something I missed in a first read through.-Daniel- said:
VenomousFiligree
Mongoose
ShawnDriscoll said:
As an ex submariner in the RN, I can confirm that not only did I conduct personal learning at sea, I also had exams registered with the S/M and invigilated at sea.
ShawnDriscoll said:
No, 4 checks with an estimated 50/50 shot of success. If you're really good with your EDU rolls and weren't adventuring every other week, you theoretically could earn a skill level in a solid month of study. Still pretty fast, but it's also the worse "best?" case scenario.
vladthemad
Mongoose
I thought that I'd add that the post chargen training speed doesn't agree with the description of what each skill level represents on page 56 either (Assuming someone hasn't already brought this up and I missed it). It states "Each level in a skill represents years of experience using that skill...". If that's true, exactly why am I able to study for four weeks on average and go from no knowledge of a skill to level 1?
I'm less than happy about the skill training system as given as well. , I suggest that making all the edu check is required, and that failure means you have to start over at your current level.
Assuming an average 8 EDU character, to get to Level 4 (close to ghod level skills)
0 - one week (41 % chance of success)
1 - one week (2 running) (41 %chance of success)
2 - two weeks ( 4 running) (16% chance of completion in 2 weeks)
3 - three weeks (7 weeks running) (6% chance of completion in 3 weeks)
4 - four weeks (11 weeks) (2% chance of completion in 4 weeks)
Assuming an average 8 EDU character, to get to Level 4 (close to ghod level skills)
0 - one week (41 % chance of success)
1 - one week (2 running) (41 %chance of success)
2 - two weeks ( 4 running) (16% chance of completion in 2 weeks)
3 - three weeks (7 weeks running) (6% chance of completion in 3 weeks)
4 - four weeks (11 weeks) (2% chance of completion in 4 weeks)
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
I just went back and re-read this whole thread. Am I right in saying we all agree there should be some sort of training mechanic to allow some improvement, just we are not sure if the present one is the right one? Or does anyone not want to see advancement at all?
I ask because it seems to me, we all just need to find a method and try it out to see how it plays out on the table, so to speak. 8)
I ask because it seems to me, we all just need to find a method and try it out to see how it plays out on the table, so to speak. 8)
-Daniel- said:
The current rules make it way to easy to gain skills.
In my previous MgT game, I used an experience point system, where they got 1-2 points per "scenario" (which normally took at least 2 sessions) and used the point buy costs for skills. With a player only getting 1-2 point per every other session, skill creep was fairly slow.
-Daniel- said:
I think that's an accurate statement. I didn't dislike the older MGT improvement method, though I like adding the EDU check at intervals, and I'd like a stated cost in Cr even more, since players will want to use this rule, and every GM in the world shouldn't have to come up with their own way to handle it in this day and age.
DickNervous
Mongoose
-Daniel- said:
Yes, you are correct.
There needs to be a way to improve skills after chargen, but the rules as they are written make it to easy and fast. There needs to be a longer time commitment as well as a monetary cost that both increase as you try to get higher skill levels as part of the core rules.
In the Companion there could be more variations, including different ways of "gaining experience" of some sort that may be able to be used to reduce the time/financial costs of training.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
-Daniel- said:
I'll be the odd man out here. I never improve characters once a game starts. You guys can decide what is best for training characters during a game.
Golan2072
Cosmic Mongoose
I'd go with something more realistic than the current draft rules - that is, Traveller-style skills (where even Skill-1 is an employable job skill) should improve VERY slowly, unless you actually go out and learn them, which takes time and money. You don't go from a paramedic's understanding of medicine (Medic-1) to that of a physician (Medic-2) within a year, even if you work hard, after all; maybe after many years, maybe not. You also don't get from an ordinary grunt (Gun Combat-0) to a sniper (Gun Combat (Rifle)-3) in a few weeks of training, no matter how intense. Generally to get Skill-2 you should get a professional training, which should take time (a year? 4 years as in CT from layman to Skill-2?) and cost money. From experience - maybe 1 skill point per year, maybe per 4 years (as in Chargen), to be assigned as you like.
Jeff Hopper
Mongoose
ShawnDriscoll said:
Yes. Yes we did.
A decent chunk of shipboard life was taking classes. That is how I got certified as a Hydroelectric Machinery Mechanic while still in.
Jeff Hopper
Mongoose
-Daniel- said:
I agree.
Out of curiosity, why was the MgT training mechanic changed? It seemed to work OK in my groups.
grauenwolf
Banded Mongoose
So far this is the only rule that I'm going to ignore outright.
One of the things that made Traveller interesting is that characters were basically complete from day one. The occasional skill bump from the old system is ok, but allowing them to rapidly level up breaks that model.
One of the things that made Traveller interesting is that characters were basically complete from day one. The occasional skill bump from the old system is ok, but allowing them to rapidly level up breaks that model.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Well for me, I hope you will not have to ignore it. I hope we all can help change this to something that makes a whole lot more sense. 8)grauenwolf said:
Today as I played with the Character Generation I kept thinking, the post career training needs to reflect how hard it is to get a skill in the generation process. Otherwise why wouldn't a one term character use the magic education machine to learn all their skills just like they will once they are done with the Character Generation Process.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like this is a mechanic that steps outside the game to give something that does not fit into the game. The bottom line I keep coming to is it should take at least a year for a character to get a skill beyond zero and zero should take longer that a week of reading text books.
Where I get stuck is how? Harder rolls? Longer delay between rolls? Kill the rolls all together and make this a referee award thing? Do we cap the number of zero skills a person can have as well?
I expect my lack of game design experience (I am at -3 and rolling snake eyes.) is stopping me from seeing an recommendation to make. But I really feel there must be one out there. Something between no skill increases ever and weekly skill increases.
DickTurpin
Banded Mongoose
There needs to be some way of advancing skills after chargen. Something faster than the old method would be best; it just needs to be slowed down a little from the current method. I like the Edu test idea, let's just spread out the test dates a tiny bit.
My proposal: You need to pass Edu 8+ tests equal to twice the skill level you want to obtain (minimum one). The amount of study time before each test is equal to twice the skill level you wish to obtain. You must spend at least eight hours per day studying for the week to count. There is a negative DM equal to the skill level you are learning to the Edu tests. If a test is failed you did not understand the material and must study for an equal time before attempting the test again. Study and tests need not be in consecutive weeks.
It should also be mentioned somewhere that a skill can only be raised a single step at a time to make that clear.
The minimum time for each level increase would be the square of twice the new skill level. With the DM penalty the higher level skills would take a very long time indeed. It would still be possible for a Traveller with a high Edu mod to go from untrained to level 2 Medic in 21 weeks with good rolls but I would not consider him to be a true Doctor unless he also had level 1+ in Science(Biology) and Science(Chemistry), with possibly Science(Cybertechnology) and/or Science(Genetics) as well for a high TL doctor.
My proposal: You need to pass Edu 8+ tests equal to twice the skill level you want to obtain (minimum one). The amount of study time before each test is equal to twice the skill level you wish to obtain. You must spend at least eight hours per day studying for the week to count. There is a negative DM equal to the skill level you are learning to the Edu tests. If a test is failed you did not understand the material and must study for an equal time before attempting the test again. Study and tests need not be in consecutive weeks.
It should also be mentioned somewhere that a skill can only be raised a single step at a time to make that clear.
The minimum time for each level increase would be the square of twice the new skill level. With the DM penalty the higher level skills would take a very long time indeed. It would still be possible for a Traveller with a high Edu mod to go from untrained to level 2 Medic in 21 weeks with good rolls but I would not consider him to be a true Doctor unless he also had level 1+ in Science(Biology) and Science(Chemistry), with possibly Science(Cybertechnology) and/or Science(Genetics) as well for a high TL doctor.
