Training new skills after chargen

[CosmicGamer]

Additional complication is not for the Core Book, and if we can present a bare bones system that covers 90% of need, then build upon it in optional ways, I think the end result will be better.

So suggestion C) "Reduce the difficulty of the roll" should still be on the table as it does not alter complexity

or are you saying you like suggestion D) "Remove the roll" which makes it even simpler?

 

[Kaelic]

I don't even see how rolling before-hand increases complexity either. You can just have a chart.

 

[CosmicGamer]

On first read it seams straightforward vs what you have now and thus I'll allow it. :mrgreen: :roll: but please read on Might I suggest...

On second read, I do strongly encourage you to at a minimum change the wording from "Study Period" to "Study and Practice Period".

 

[allanimal]

E) Put the roll at the start of training.
Use the effect of an EDU roll before starting to learn to adjust the length of study time one needs.

This is actually a really cool idea. I like it, if we must have a roll.

I like this too. If we need a roll. It rewards high EDU a bit but doesn't completely bone the low EDU character. EDU is one of the stats one can't slap a cyber augment on to help things along, like a low DEX or STR character can.

 

[FallingPhoenix]

E) Put the roll at the start of training.
Use the effect of an EDU roll before starting to learn to adjust the length of study time one needs.

This is actually a really cool idea. I like it, if we must have a roll.

I like this too. If we need a roll. It rewards high EDU a bit but doesn't completely bone the low EDU character. EDU is one of the stats one can't slap a cyber augment on to help things along, like a low DEX or STR character can.

We should totally apply this to chargen and give high EDU characters an extra roll for a skill every term!

Okay, not really. I do like rolling at the beginning to determine training time quite a lot, actually.

 

[-Daniel-]

Ok, I am feeling real dense right now. I keep reading and re-reading the last few posts and I am not seeing what it is you guys are excited about. So for us slower children, any chance you could spell it out so I can follow the line of thinking?

 

[allanimal]

Ok, I am feeling real dense right now. I keep reading and re-reading the last few posts and I am not seeing what it is you guys are excited about. So for us slower children, any chance you could spell it out so I can follow the line of thinking?

If there must be an EDU roll involved with advancing skills, instead of making it hinge on whether or not the skill is learned or not (as people have said, it is rare to study for so long and not get anything out of it), make the EDU roll's effect determine how long it takes to acquire/advance the skill.

How much that +x or -y effect changes the training time, well, that has yet to be defined.

 

[DanDare2050]

I would like to propose this:

Learning a skill requires a period of study and practice. A number of weeks is required as a base period depending on the level of skill to be obtained: 4 weeks + new skill level (so skill 0 is just 4 weeks). The sessions require at least 40 hours study a week. A week of study and practice must not be significantly interrupted. The weeks themselves do not need to be consecutive but for any gap of over two weeks an extra week is added to the requirement.

At the end of that period a number of EDU skill checks are required equal to the new skill level plus one. e.g. Level 4 requires 5 EDU checks. If any skill checks are failed then the time period of study must be repeated, at the end of which only make EDU checks for the total number previously failed. If any of these are failed then repeat again in the same way until all checks are passed and the new skill is gained.

So for example learning skill 3 requires a 7 week training period at the end of which 4 EDU checks are made. If the player fails 2 of those checks then its another 7 weeks with 2 EDU checks at the end. If the player failed 1 of those checks its yet a another 7 weeks but with only 1 check at the end.

During this time the character may have an opportunity to seriously attempt the skill in the field. Each time they use the skill as part of serious play they can have a tick against that skill, succeed or fail. When it comes to making the EDU checks then each roll may have a boon, up to the number of ticks accumulated. All ticks are then erased, whether used for boons or not.

Note that a character could train for two skills in a week, requiring 80 hours of focused training and leaving little or no time for anything else. Any significant interruption disrupts the training for both skills however.

 

[Loconius]

So 2 weeks plus check per skill level would be VERY VERY fast. I'd go as far as to one skill level (for the player to put anywhere he wants) per in-game year, or even per 2 (or 4!) in-game years. This will mirror the chargen skill advancement rates

Agree with most of what you had to say but in chargen a character can gain 6 level 0 skills (basic training) while also getting several other skills.

True, but this happens ONCE per entire career. And skill-0 are much lesser in scope than actual skills; they are not employable, just basic courses and certifications (e.g. firearm training at boot camp for rear-echelon troops, typical quick civilian CPR/first aid training, civilian motorist who gets a license to drive his private car but will drive badly under stressful conditions and isn't licensed to drive a cab, a bus or a truck).

A Skill-1 is an employable job skill. Get Mechanic-1 and you can apply for a job at a garage as an actual mechanic. Get Medic-1 and you can apply for a job as a paramedic - or a ship's medic. Most people in real life or in Classic Traveller don't have long lists of employable skills - 4-5 skills are quite appropriate. Most of your hobby skills and day-to-day skills are skill-0. And Skill-2 or Skill-3 is professional level, enough to get a license as a proper professional; typically a person has one profession, maybe two. Classic Traveller Book 1 chargen (and Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium) handled this quite well and did not overload characters with skills.

This is a good argument for varying approaches to skill training in the companion. Skill 0 being trainable with long term hobby practice or shorter taught courses. Level 1 would be some kind of qualifying procedure (school or certification exams) and level 2 and on be advanced practice (either master/PHD schooling or self researched discovery).

 

[areafiftyonegames]

i think we are grouping the Difficulty of skills together , a firearm skill in basic training for a marine in the united states only takes 4 weeks , in the Army its Two.
learning to Drive a car from Drivers Ed in total hours took half a semester, one hour a day five days a week.
I trained all the time on Common task in the Army as a Tank Crewman , I promise you that twenty years later I would not trust my self to disarm A mine or Drive a tank with any kind of professional level , but I know know how to operate computers and Technical issues of a Network.
There is no hard fast rules for the lose of skill , till you place the limit of how many skills some one can have, and possible consider unlearning skills to make room for new ones.

the level of difficult of a skill is as important as the skill. learn to fly a space craft compaired to learning to drive a car in Traffic?

 

[CosmicGamer]

i think we are grouping the Difficulty of skills together , a firearm skill in basic training for a marine in the united states only takes 4 weeks , in the Army its Two.
learning to Drive a car from Drivers Ed in total hours took half a semester, one hour a day five days a week.
I trained all the time on Common task in the Army as a Tank Crewman , I promise you that twenty years later I would not trust my self to disarm A mine or Drive a tank with any kind of professional level , but I know know how to operate computers and Technical issues of a Network.
There is no hard fast rules for the lose of skill , till you place the limit of how many skills some one can have, and possible consider unlearning skills to make room for new ones.

the level of difficult of a skill is as important as the skill. learn to fly a space craft compaired to learning to drive a car in Traffic?

Keep in mind that Traveller skills are broader. That level 0 firearm skill in real life basic is likely for a very narrow range of weapons while in Traveller it is everything from a bow to a energy weapon. That drivers ed class in Traveller covers tanks, grav vehicles, construction vehicles and so on.

Yes, this is not very realistic, but part of game design is trying to find a balance between simple playability and fun vs a system where so many real life variables are taken into consideration that every action taken has a book of rules and tables which takes hours to resolve - or you wing it, just role play it to the best of your ability and don't need the rules at all. Shrug

For a system that bases all skills on a set amount of training time instead of some specific set of capabilities, I see it as follows

Instead of level X drive is weeks of learning and practicing what all the controls of the vehicle are and what all the traffic control signs and signals are. And then level X vacc suit is just a few hours learning how to put it on.

It is level X is the amount of skill the average person has after Y weeks of training. Done. That simple. Doesn't matter if it is driving, piloting, combat, or Vacc Suit.

Again, just explaining how I reason it out.