Training new skills after chargen

[-Daniel-]

I agree that the ability to become a world class Doctor in less than a year is way too fast. I understand the desire to add a leveling system to Traveller, but reject it in its present form.

I am even more worried about it when the skill level restrictions do not include zero level skills and the number of that restriction is so vary high. a Character with the average in INT and EDU could have 40+ levels not counting the zero skills. This means a character could earn 10 or so in creation and double that in several weeks or game play. I think the training rules would be less of a worry if the total restrictions were tighter.

I really think the 3(EDU+INT) should be lowered and zero level skills should count as 1 as well.

I would suggest at most it be 2(EDU+INT) and if zero were counted into the total max this would make the learning less attractive to "Skill Collectors".

 

[-Daniel-]

I agree that the ability to become a world class Doctor in less than a year is way too fast. I understand the desire to add a leveling system to Traveller, but reject it in its present form.

I am even more worried about it when the skill level restrictions do not include zero level skills and the number of that restriction is so vary high. a Character with the average in INT and EDU could have 40+ levels not counting the zero skills. This means a character could earn 10 or so in creation and double that in several weeks or game play. I think the training rules would be less of a worry if the total restrictions were tighter.

I really think the 3(EDU+INT) should be lowered and zero level skills should count as 1 as well.

I would suggest at most it be 2(EDU+INT) and if zero were counted into the total max this would make the learning less attractive to "Skill Collectors".

 

[Golan2072]

The limit for total skill levels should be INT+EDU. Skills are significant, at the average level of INT 7 and EDU 7 that would be 14 skill points per character max, which is quite a lot. A good solid character should probably have 4-8 points, there is little need for more than it in 2d6-based Traveller.

 

[-Daniel-]

The limit for total skill levels should be INT+EDU. Skills are significant, at the average level of INT 7 and EDU 7 that would be 14 skill points per character max, which is quite a lot. A good solid character should probably have 4-8 points, there is little need for more than it in 2d6-based Traveller.

If you create a two term character than 14 would be great, but a five term character can reach 14 in character creation alone. 2(INT+EDU) would not be overly bad IMO.

 

[Golan2072]

If you can easily get 14 skill levels in 5 terms, then the amount of skill points per term should be reduced. There is a reason Classic Traveller rarely gave you more than 1-2 points per term (4 if you got both a commission and a promotion on the first term, afterwards it's either 1 or 2 if you get promoted).

 

[vladthemad]

If they have a ship, players will spend an average of maybe 20 weeks in jump a year, assuming they stay planetside longer than a week a few times. Even if they miss half their rolls, they will get 10 skill 0 or skill 1 increases a year. In character creation your lucky to get 2 skill increases in four years!

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It seems to me that it's a bit too easy to gain skills post career. If the dice gods smile on you, you could easily bump a skill up from no skill to level 0 to level 1 to level 2 to level 3 in a matter of seven jumps, whereas during character creation you are lucky to gain 2 skill levels in four years. The previous method of advancing skills fell more inline with the times it took during character creation, but did make it highly unlikely to gain a skill during game play. I understand this change from the "it's a game" perspective. If your group is missing badly needed skills, they can quickly gain them, but it should be exponentially not incrementally harder to gain expert level skills. After all, the more you know how to do something, the harder it is to learn something new!

I have two suggestions, to make it more difficult to get to higher skill levels.
1. State that the successful rolls must be consecutive, even if the weeks don't need to be.
2. Use the skill level you are trying to obtain as a negative DM to the checks.

 

[Golan2072]

I have two suggestions, to make it more difficult to get to higher skill levels.
1. State that the successful rolls must be consecutive, even if the weeks don't need to be.
2. Use the skill level you are trying to obtain as a negative DM to the checks.

The problem is that while these suggestions do reduce the chance of over-quick learning, if the dice gods are smiling, you can still go from layman to doctor in 6 weeks. Which is the key problem here.

 

[-Daniel-]

If you can easily get 14 skill levels in 5 terms, then the amount of skill points per term should be reduced. There is a reason Classic Traveller rarely gave you more than 1-2 points per term (4 if you got both a commission and a promotion on the first term, afterwards it's either 1 or 2 if you get promoted).

One of the reasons I walked away from CT and moved to Mongoose was the ability to make a reasonable character in two to three terms. I do not want to see us return to CTs level of skills. Having said that, I realize we are discussing our subjective likes and dislikes so I will leave my comments with; we each enjoy what we enjoy. :mrgreen:

 

[-Daniel-]

I have two suggestions, to make it more difficult to get to higher skill levels.
1. State that the successful rolls must be consecutive, even if the weeks don't need to be.
2. Use the skill level you are trying to obtain as a negative DM to the checks.

The problem is that while these suggestions do reduce the chance of over-quick learning, if the dice gods are smiling, you can still go from layman to doctor in 6 weeks. Which is the key problem here.

I agree, the whole Layman to Doctor example shows a weakness in the training rule as it is written right now.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The limit for total skill levels should be INT+EDU. Skills are significant, at the average level of INT 7 and EDU 7 that would be 14 skill points per character max, which is quite a lot. A good solid character should probably have 4-8 points, there is little need for more than it in 2d6-based Traveller.

Skill levels? Or Skills? 14 skill levels gets eaten up fast during chargen. Are you limiting character ages (no one over 38, for example)?

If you can easily get 14 skill levels in 5 terms, then the amount of skill points per term should be reduced. There is a reason Classic Traveller rarely gave you more than 1-2 points per term (4 if you got both a commission and a promotion on the first term, afterwards it's either 1 or 2 if you get promoted).

I see where you are coming from. This game is no where near Classic Traveller in regard to skills or chargen.

 

[hdan]

I like the idea that characters could spend a week in jump preparing themselves for their next adventure by gaining a relevant Level-0 skill quite a lot. Knowing my players, this new Training rule is going to get a lot of use, so it's worth making sure it works right and doesn't have bad effects on other parts of the game.

Gaining skill levels above 0 is too fast as written, because otherwise who would bother enlisting anywhere? Maybe 1 term to get some staring cash and maybe a connection or two, but then just study up to be who you want. I'm OK with PC's being better than average folks, but they should still have a good reason to enlist, other than "it's free".

Perhaps the simple answer would be:
* New levels take (Level * 4) weeks to gain, with Level-0 being a 1-week introductory course
* Each week costs 1kCr per WEEK per skill level being studied. (Those advanced classes don't come cheap.)

On average, Level-1 skills will take 2 months of solid study (8+ EDU to pass a week's exams), which given the usual Traveller lifestyle (1 week in Jump, 1 week not studying) means 4 months of realtime, which tracks a bit more like the Term system.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Perhaps the simple answer would be:
* New levels take (Level * 4) weeks to gain, with Level-0 being a 1-week introductory course
* Each week costs 1kCr per WEEK per skill level being studied. (Those advanced classes don't come cheap.)

On average, Level-1 skills will take 2 months of solid study (8+ EDU to pass a week's exams), which given the usual Traveller lifestyle (1 week in Jump, 1 week not studying) means 4 months of realtime, which tracks a bit more like the Term system.

2 months, meaning eight EDU 8+ checks to succeed?

 

[Golan2072]

The limit for total skill levels should be INT+EDU. Skills are significant, at the average level of INT 7 and EDU 7 that would be 14 skill points per character max, which is quite a lot. A good solid character should probably have 4-8 points, there is little need for more than it in 2d6-based Traveller.

Skill levels? Or Skills? 14 skill levels gets eaten up fast during chargen. Are you limiting character ages (no one over 38, for example)?

Look at it this way:

Skill-1 is an employable skill - enough to get a full-time, well-paying job on a starship.

Skill-2 is professional (e.g. a physician).

How many professions should the average person have?

And how fast should a layman learn a profession?

(Note that I am less concerned about a large number of Skill-1's and more about Skills-2 and above, as well as the possibility of having skills way above 3, which "breaks" the 2d6 curve.)

 

[CosmicGamer]

(Note that I am less concerned about a large number of Skill-1's and more about Skills-2 and above, as well as the possibility of having skills way above 3, which "breaks" the 2d6 curve.)

Well you don't have to worry about skills way above 3 as per the skill limit on page 16.

 

[Golan2072]

(Note that I am less concerned about a large number of Skill-1's and more about Skills-2 and above, as well as the possibility of having skills way above 3, which "breaks" the 2d6 curve.)

Well you don't have to worry about skills way above 3 as per the skill limit on page 16.

But even 3 has quite a strong influence on the 2d6 curve...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

(Note that I am less concerned about a large number of Skill-1's and more about Skills-2 and above, as well as the possibility of having skills way above 3, which "breaks" the 2d6 curve.)

Well you don't have to worry about skills way above 3 as per the skill limit on page 16.

But even 3 has quite a strong influence on the 2d6 curve...

All players/referees need to care about is the effect of a roll. Not the pass/fail stuff.

 

[vladthemad]

I have two suggestions, to make it more difficult to get to higher skill levels.
1. State that the successful rolls must be consecutive, even if the weeks don't need to be.
2. Use the skill level you are trying to obtain as a negative DM to the checks.

The problem is that while these suggestions do reduce the chance of over-quick learning, if the dice gods are smiling, you can still go from layman to doctor in 6 weeks. Which is the key problem here.

Granted, but with either of the suggested additions, the higher the skill level the less likely that is to happen.

 

[Golan2072]

Anyhow, I think the core issue here is that you can, with luck, go from layman to doctor in about 6 weeks... Sure, some of the suggestions here can drastically reduce the chance for this, but it can still happen...

 

[-Daniel-]

(Note that I am less concerned about a large number of Skill-1's and more about Skills-2 and above, as well as the possibility of having skills way above 3, which "breaks" the 2d6 curve.)

Well you don't have to worry about skills way above 3 as per the skill limit on page 16.

Page 16's limit is on the Character creation process not the post career "training" process. Right now, as written, there is no cap on skill levels as long as the EDU roll is passed. And with the super high overall limit on skill levels a Character would be able to have quite a few Level 2 skills for example. Thus why I am suggesting the cap to skill level, the reduction of the overall total cap, and an increase in the difficulty in raising skills post career generation.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I'll stay in college until I'm 80. Then I'll have some level 4 skills for sure to start with.