Today's question; Jump rating as a Speed?

[sideranautae]

Though In-system travel changes a lot as it generally become 100 diameter limit to 100 diameter limit. Thus wilderness refueling and then transit in-system becomes more common.

Why? I mean a J1 ship would still have a week jump for micro's. A J6 ship would have a real advantage in system but they are as rare as honest politicians.

Why? The state parameter is speed, even a J1 ship is blindingly fast at system distances.

The jump model still holds in this model I believe. In J space during jump. Set distance/time jump. Unless I totally misunderstood your model...

 

[Infojunky]

Why? The state parameter is speed, even a J1 ship is blindingly fast at system distances.

The jump model still holds in this model I believe. In J space during jump. Set distance/time jump. Unless I totally misunderstood your model...

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I am discarding the fixed time portion of the Jump model. So a J1 rated ship if it had the fuel could Jump six parsecs distance in 6 weeks. As it the reverse a J6 rated ship could jump one Parsec in a little over a day. Following any Jump ship can jump in system with a blindingly short time from entry to exit.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Jump 1 is thus a speed of 200,000AU over 600,000 seconds (speed is distance over time)

2AU in 6 seconds is not to be sneezed at for in-system travel - and that's for jump 1.

Note, the above numbers are rounded to make it a bit easier

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Speed = Velocity over time, the classic physics definition.

Fuel use would be the standard 10% per parsec. No matter what the drives rating is.....

That is not part of the classic physics definition, an object in motion stays in motion, and object at rest stays at rest without the application of force. To go one parsec in one week would require a velocity of 0.4657 light years per day or about 170 times the speed of light, Jump 2 would be 340 times the speed of light, Jump 3 would be 510 times the speed of light, Jump 4 would be 680 times the speed of light, Jump 5 would be 850 times the speed of light, and Jump 6 would be 1020 times the speed of light. So I would say 10% for reaching Jump 1 or 170 times the speed of light, 20% for reaching Jump 2 or 340 times the speed of light and so on, the main difference would be a ship at Jump 1 could wait another week and travel another parsec with no increase in fuel usage other than for running their life support and other ship systems. One doesn't normally expend fuel to maintain one's velocity, Issac Newton's laws of motion takes care of that. Also Einstein's equations doesn't explicitly forbid faster than light travel, only travel at light speed for material objects, so if you could "jump" around light speed, you can have access to faster than light velocities. As for backward time travel, that only mostly occurs if you are traveling near light speed from the other side. Time dilation is most pronounced if you are traveling close to the speed of light, 170 times the speed of light is not close, in fact the higher velocities have lower kinetic energies, which is why I am allowing a direct 1 to 1 correspondence between velocity and fuel consumption instead of a velocity squared relationship, but that fuel consumption is only to achieve the required velocity and go back, how long you stay at that velocity involves no further fuel consumption, you just coast.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Jump 1 is thus a speed of 200,000AU over 600,000 seconds (speed is distance over time)

2AU in 6 seconds is not to be sneezed at for in-system travel - and that's for jump 1.

Note, the above numbers are rounded to make it a bit easier

You could fix that if you don't want it simply by requiring a greater jump limit around massive bodies. You could require the ship to go outside the star system effectively in order to engage the Jump drive, otherwise it simply does not work, that way you still have plenty of maneuvering to do.

 

[sideranautae]

Why? The state parameter is speed, even a J1 ship is blindingly fast at system distances.

The jump model still holds in this model I believe. In J space during jump. Set distance/time jump. Unless I totally misunderstood your model...

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I am discarding the fixed time portion of the Jump model. So a J1 rated ship if it had the fuel could Jump six parsecs distance in 6 weeks. As it the reverse a J6 rated ship could jump one Parsec in a little over a day. Following any Jump ship can jump in system with a blindingly short time from entry to exit.

Okay. So this is Real space speed (and the way you described above) an inertialess, instant start/stop paradigm.

So, a couple of questions. What FLT sensors are in use for FTL Real space navigation? All weapons being Light or sub-light speed, are you including new FTL weapons as all others are useless vs. a FTL ship?

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

...
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I am discarding the fixed time portion of the Jump model. So a J1 rated ship if it had the fuel could Jump six parsecs distance in 6 weeks. As it the reverse a J6 rated ship could jump one Parsec in a little over a day. Following any Jump ship can jump in system with a blindingly short time from entry to exit.

Okay. So this is Real space speed (and the way you described above) an inertialess, instant start/stop paradigm.

So, a couple of questions. What FLT sensors are in use for FTL Real space navigation? All weapons being Light or sub-light speed, are you including new FTL weapons as all others are useless vs. a FTL ship?

Tachyons are the faster than light components to baryons, such as electrons protons and neutrons so lets say you had a jump drive that jumped over the light speed limit converting every particle of the ship and its contents to tachyons, The Jump 1 drive converts the ship and contents to tachyons that travel at 170 times the speed of light and higher jump drives at that number times that speed. When faster than the speed of light, the ship can still use its maneuver drive to change its FTL speed slightly My guess is that at 170 the speed of light the ship would be elongated in the direction of travel, 340 times the speed of light would not seem as twice the speed to the occupants of a ship traveling at 170 times the speed of light. From a certain point of view the ship would seem to go backwards in time, but this is more pronounced for a small multiple of the speed of light such as 1.1 times the speed of light at 170 times the speed of light the relativistic effects would be negligible.

 

[sideranautae]

Tachyons are the faster than light components to baryons, ...

Tachyons are fictitious particles. But a really neat explanation nonetheless.

 

[Reynard]

Now there's the problem. Has the Jump drive for this thread become a version of warp engine ala Star Trek in which you're just travelling very fast in real space or are you stiil in jump space, totally cut off from real space but able to start, maneuver and stop as you please? Essentially flying blind.

 

[sideranautae]

Now there's the problem. Has the Jump drive for this thread become a version of warp engine ala Star Trek in which you're just travelling very fast in real space or are you stiil in jump space, totally cut off from real space but able to start, maneuver and stop as you please? Essentially flying blind.

Can't tell as the OP hasn't described in enough detail yet.

 

[Infojunky]

Now there's the problem. Has the Jump drive for this thread become a version of warp engine ala Star Trek in which you're just travelling very fast in real space or are you stiil in jump space, totally cut off from real space but able to start, maneuver and stop as you please? Essentially flying blind.

Can't tell as the OP hasn't described in enough detail yet.

It is more a instance of Jump = Hyperdrive i.e. from the "real space" perspective you pop out at one point and reappear at another. Or to reiterate what i am asking is how much would a Hyperspace type drive with the trappings and limitations of Jump (Sans the minimum duration, maximum travel bits), would change the core nature of the game.

 

[sideranautae]

Now there's the problem. Has the Jump drive for this thread become a version of warp engine ala Star Trek in which you're just travelling very fast in real space or are you stiil in jump space, totally cut off from real space but able to start, maneuver and stop as you please? Essentially flying blind.

Can't tell as the OP hasn't described in enough detail yet.

It is more a instance of Jump = Hyperdrive i.e. from the "real space" perspective you pop out at one point and reappear at another. Or to reiterate what i am asking is how much would a Hyperspace type drive with the trappings and limitations of Jump (Sans the minimum duration, maximum travel bits), would change the core nature of the game.

Still not enough info. Give detailed examples of operation based on different drive ratings. Maybe like a write up you'd find in the Starship Op Manual.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It's pretty obvious

A jump 1 ship enters jump and leaves our universe, one week later it reenters our universe 1 parsec away.

If the ship chooses to only jump half a parsec it takes three and a half days.

A jump 6 ship can cover the same 1 parsec trip in bit over a day.

The ships are still jumping, but the duration of the jump is no longer fixed it is a function of drive number and distance.

 

[Infojunky]

What He Said......

 

[sideranautae]

What He Said......

Sorry for the mega brain fart.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Tachyons are the faster than light components to baryons, ...

Tachyons are fictitious particles. But a really neat explanation nonetheless.

They might be dark particles. About 90% of the mass in the Universe is invisible and weakly interacting, such as neutrinos, some of those particles might be tachyons A drive that converts an entire starship into tachyons might be completely invisible to the rest of the Universe, and the rest of the Universe would be invisible to it. The crew would not b able to see where they are going, so they have to trust the jump calculations they made before they made the jump, but how long they spend at FTL will determine how far they travel in whatever direction they are going in, and when they go back to STL, they find out if they were traveling in the right direction or not.

 

[sideranautae]

Tachyons are the faster than light components to baryons, ...

Tachyons are fictitious particles. But a really neat explanation nonetheless.

They might be dark particles. About 90% of the mass in the Universe is invisible and weakly interacting, such as neutrinos, some of those particles might be tachyons A drive that converts an entire starship into tachyons might be completely invisible to the rest of the Universe, and the rest of the Universe would be invisible to it. The crew would not b able to see where they are going, so they have to trust the jump calculations they made before they made the jump, but how long they spend at FTL will determine how far they travel in whatever direction they are going in, and when they go back to STL, they find out if they were traveling in the right direction or not.

Could be. We don't know why planets cause space to curve (gravity), why inertia exists, what or how Dark Matter. SO much we are clueless about,

 

[dmccoy1693]

It's pretty obvious

A jump 1 ship enters jump and leaves our universe, one week later it reenters our universe 1 parsec away.

If the ship chooses to only jump half a parsec it takes three and a half days.

A jump 6 ship can cover the same 1 parsec trip in bit over a day.

The ships are still jumping, but the duration of the jump is no longer fixed it is a function of drive number and distance.

Yea, beyond this, I don't see much change involved. Even the OTU, I still don't see really changing all that much if at all.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I mean, sure, if you have a jump 3 ship chacing a jump 6 ship, by standard traveller rules, if they ate both going to a system 3 parsecs away, that extra space used for the j drive and fuel is wasted. But as a speed, the jump 6 drive now has a real advantage.

Don't get me wrong an imperial fleet will be at a bigger disadvantage vs a zho fleet. Imp fleet will retreat to their base after a loss and find the base in flames.

 

[Reynard]

"Yea, beyond this, I don't see much change involved. Even the OTU, I still don't see really changing all that much if at all."

Seriously, time means nothing? In the OTU better engines mean greater distance for the time expended. In the alternate universe better engines mean greater distance overall PLUS shorter time traveled at shorter distances. That is a HUGE difference at any jump engine beyond Jump one!