Timeline Question

[Supplement Four]

I'm re-reading the short stories (and a few important novels) in chronological order.

I've got a question. After becoming a master thief, Conan leaves Zamora after things get a bit hot for him in the story THE HALL OF THE DEAD.

He heads northwest, out of Zamora, into Corinthia, and then to Nemedia, where THE GOD IN THE BOWL takes place.

Next is ROGUES IN THE HOUSE, that takes place in Corinthia.

Why have Rogues after Bowl? It seems to me that Rogues should occur in Corinthia during Conan's first time through, then, he moves north, into Nemedia, for Bowl.

Thoughts on why the chronos set it the other way around?

 

[VincentDarlage]

You are reading them in the wrong chronological order. You are reading them in L. Sprague de Camp's incorrect order.

The most scholarly chronology is Dale Rippke's. This is the chronology the new Dark Horse comics are following - and the one I follow when I write Conan material for the game.

1. The Frost Giant's Daughter (Nordheim)
2. The God in the Bowl (Nemedia)
3. The Tower of the Elephant (Zamora)
4. The Hall of the Dead (Zamora)
5. Rogues in the House (Corinthia)
6. The Hand of Nergal (Corinthia)

http://www.rehupa.com/rippke_chronology.htm

The explanations for the choices are given in the link above.

There is some debate among Howard scholars as to whether this story should be placed after "The Tower of the Elephant" and before "The God in the Bowl". The argument is that it makes more sense for Conan to be traveling in an east to west line, instead of wandering in what amounts to circles. This theory made sense at the time because de Camp had altered "The God in the Bowl" to make it fit later in Conan’s career. The earlier placement of "The God in the Bowl" causes this theory to collapse. In my opinion, the Conan in "Rogues in the House" is more mature than the Conan in "The God in the Bowl" and "The Tower of the Elephant" and is quite a bit more comfortable dealing with the foibles of civilization. He is now a fully-grown man. Also, I believe Howard intended that Conan’s partner, the Gunderman deserter mentioned in this tale to be Nestor, the Gunderman from "The Hall of the Dead" synopsis.

 

[Supplement Four]

Reading them that way completely discounts many stories, though.

For example, Legions of the Dead, which takes place not long after the Sack of Venarium, sees Conan enslaved by the Hyperborians. He escapes, and shortly we pick up with The Thing in the Crypt.

That story takes place in Brythunia.

To accept Ripke is to accept that none of the other exceptional stories ever happened, and there are plenty of good Conan stories not written by Howard.

 

[rabindranath72]

To accept Ripke is to accept that none of the other exceptional stories ever happened, and there are plenty of good Conan stories not written by Howard.

If at all, it's a problem of the other writers who did not take time to check a possible and reasonable ordering of the events as Howard might have conceived them.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Reading them that way completely discounts many stories, though.

For example, Legions of the Dead, which takes place not long after the Sack of Venarium, sees Conan enslaved by the Hyperborians. He escapes, and shortly we pick up with The Thing in the Crypt.

That story takes place in Brythunia.

To accept Ripke is to accept that none of the other exceptional stories ever happened, and there are plenty of good Conan stories not written by Howard.

You can place Legions of the Dead and Thing in the Crypt after Frost Giant's Daughter. Possibly Lair of the Ice Worm also.

Again, see: http://www.rehupa.com/rippke_chronology.htm

During an ill-fated Æsir raid into Hyperborea, Conan is captured, developing a hatred of Hyperboreans that lasts his whole life. He escapes southward, into the Hyborian nation of Brythunia. Penniless and hungry, Conan decides to take what he wants by sword-point. Eventually he winds up in Numalia, a Nemedian city on the trade-routes.

Yes, reading them in the correct order will discount some tales because they were written assuming an incorrect order; however, it looks like Mr. Rippke has left a spot for those two tales. You'll recall you were the one who noticed a problem with the de Camp chronology. Have you considered organizing a new chronology that makes sense to you? Maybe taking Mr. Rippke's chronology and fitting in the pastiches you like into the new framework?

Maybe it could look like this:

1. The Frost Giant's Daughter (Nordheim)
2. Lair of the Ice Worm (Nordheim)
3. Legions of the Dead (Hyperborea)
4. Thing in the Crypt (Brythunia)
5. The God in the Bowl (Nemedia)
6. The Tower of the Elephant (Zamora)
7. The Hall of the Dead (Zamora)
8. Rogues in the House (Corinthia)
9. The Hand of Nergal (Corinthia)
(the City of Skulls, Curse of the Monolith, and the Bloodstained God might fit in here somewhere...)
10. Iron Shadows on the Moon (Shadows in the Moonlight) (Turan)
11. Black Colossus (Khoraja)
12. Queen of the Black Coast (Argos; Black Coast)

And so on...

 

[Supplement Four]

Have you considered organizing a new chronology that makes sense to you? Maybe taking Mr. Rippke's chronology and fitting in the pastiches you like into the new framework?

I thought about doing something like that for a long time. I even started one once (that is posted on Thulsa's site).

But, there's too many inconsistencies. Too many things that don't "mesh". And, I don't want to discount a pastiche because I don't happen to like the story (someone else might like it) or include something that I do like which others don't.

My thinking is that something like the Rippke chronology should be used--something that focuses only on Howard writings. Then, as an addendum to this chronology, have notes to indicate other readings that might happen somewhere around that Howard tale, but let the reader decide their exact order.

For example, the story would be THE TOWER OF THE ELEPHANT.

OTHER READINGS would include notes about all the Conan stories, pastiche or not, that are thought to occur close to the TOWER tale. Just make a list. Maybe have a note are two. Then just leave it to the reader.



What I am doing, though, is creating a geographical index of Conan's tales. I'd love to see a beautiful, interactive map of the Hyborian Age on a web site somewhere. I imagine these dots all over it in particular places. Hold your curso over one of the dots, get a small pop-up that indicates the title of the tale that occurs there. Click on the dot, and you get a small window with general information about the tale that took place there.

My geographical index is actually just a spreadsheet right now. And, it is far from finished. But, I do want to include all of Conan's printed tales. Later, it'd be nice to include related tales of Red Sonja, Arquel, and the books written for the AoC MMO.

 

[Supplement Four]

If one thinks of The God in the Bowl as Howard's Conan closed-room mystery, I wonder if Rogues in the House is Howard's answer to Poe's Murders in the Rue Morgue.