Thoughts on alternative skill system?

[Angalanse]

Fellow players,


I’ve been thinking about introducing a new skill system in my upcoming conan campaign, and would gladly hear your opinions about it. I haven’t game-mastered any new d20 game previously, which means that it’s hard for me to predict how my suggested skill system would play out. I would like to try a system where characters can advance independently of levels. I want it to be a bit less static than arbitrarily assigning skill points when you level up, and more tied to what the characters experience in game and focus on when training.

Here goes.

1. Instead of raising a skill by one by spending a skill point (or two for a non-class skill), all skills are raised by spending 10 skill points (or 20 for cc).

2. Instead of getting the usual skill points at first level (e.g. 4 x 8 + INT modifier for scholar), players can assign 10 times that amount (e.g. 40 x 8 + INT modifier for scholar).

This system will, of course, result in the same initial skill levels as the original system. The difference is that the game master can assign small amounts of skill points during play. It is also important for the following rule changes:

3. Characters don’t get any skill points when they gain a level.

4. Instead, characters can train skills during play or, if possible, between sessions. Two weeks of training will yield skill points based on the character’s current career. For instance, the scholar will gain 8 + INT-modifier per two weeks; a barbarian will gain 4 + INT-modifier. I.e.: A scholar with +2 INT modifier will need two weeks of training to gain 10 skill points (8 + 2 = 10), which will allow her to raise a class skill. Four weeks of training will be needed to increase a non-class skill by one (2 x 8+2 = 20).

5. Some skills can be trained without a teacher or without materials, such as Concentration or Bluff (although the latter requires the character to be socially active). Other skills need materials, such as books, or a teacher. Many knowledge skills would fall into this category.

6. Moreover – skills needing materials or assistance will be capped depending on the source of information. A teacher cannot, for example, offer any assistance if the student is more knowledgeable than herself (i.e. have higher skill). In the case of books, each text has a skill cap. I.e.: A certain tome has a skill cap of 3 for the skill Knowledge: Geography. A student can increase her skill to 3 when training with the book. If she wants to increase her skill further, she has to find a teacher or text with higher ratings.

7. After each session, I will award a few skill points to be used on skills that were used during play. This will mean that characters will pick up some odd skills during adventuring, even though they do not actively train that skill.

It is my intention that this skill system will urge the players to actively search sources of knowledge (such as books and teachers), and that they will want to take some time off regular adventuring to train.

I am aware that this system is ill-suited for many types of games – for instance campaigns where the heroes either have very much or very little time to train. It is my intention to pace the play so that the skill increases follow the intended level increases, more or less.

Comments are greatly appreciated.

 

[Supplement Four]

Comments are greatly appreciated.

I like the idea of a character having to train for skills rather than magically being able to know more and do more at the point when the character ups a level. But, I also think there's a much easier way to go about it rather than revamping the entire system. In fact, I think you can attain your desired result by using the same exact system in the Conan game, as-is, with the small change of the GM controlling when skill points are awarded.

Instead of points being tossed at the player when a level is reached, the GM can parse these points out over the course of a level, and the GM will do this based on the character's participation in training.

For example...

Ruslan is a 1st level Thief. At 2nd level, he gets 8 skill point plus an amount equal to his INT bonus (+1). So, upon attaining 2nd level, he gets 9 skill points.

Normally, he'd just get these skill points, up his skills or buy new ones, and go.

But, under this new version of the rules, what would happen is that the GM would restrict giving those 9 skill points to Ruslan. Over the course of Ruslan's 2nd level, Ruslan will have to train. If he trains, he gets his skill points. If he doesn't train, he doesn't get his skill points.

As he trains, the GM awards skill points to up his skills or as Ruslan learns new skills.

Same system. Different method of awarding skill points.





More thoughts...

A question to answer would be: What if Ruslan doesn't train? Does he keep his unearned skill points in a pool for use later? Or, does he lose them?

I'd say he keeps them, for a time when he can train at length. And, this will average out to about the same level of skill use--obtaining more skills when he's capable of training and being at a deficit when he can't train.

Of course, this method will require some bookkeeping, but it may be just a simple matter of recording at the top of the character sheet's back page how many total skill points the character is due.

The GM needs to put opportunities in the game for the players to train their characters. If the story keeps them busy running from encounter to encounter with no time to train, the characters will never improve.

Also, the GM should allow the player to spend some skill points without training--learning by doing. Learning by experience. As the players use their skills, the GM could keep that in mind and allow them to spend points on those skills used (and used well in the game).

For example, if a player rolls a natural 20 when using a skill, give the player the option of spending one of his skill points on that skill, right there, right then, to improve the skill.

Or, if a role playing encounter focuses on a particular skill--say the fate of the entire party rests on the quality of a forged letter one of the characters scripts--then, sure, why not say that's worthy of a skill point or two. The character probably learned something in the process.

Even new skills could be learned without a trainer--some skills that, is. Bluff, for example, is a skill I could see a character learning on his own, without an instructor. Allow the player to use his skill points on that skill without seeking a trainer. If the player does find someone that can teach him to bluff well, then maybe the GM should allow more points to be spent: By himself, the character can put a max of 1 skill point in bluff per level; but with an instructor, the character can put the game max of 3 skill points plus the character's level.

All of this is food for thought.





I actually quite like this idea. I may try this in my own game.

 

[Sutek]

I like the idea, but your system makes it just as easy to get skill ranks no matter the current rank or level of skill, something I dislike about the current system myself.

I played a game called Harnmaster for a long while, and it's still one of the best experience/advancement systems I've played. Points are tracked each time the player successfully uses any skill. He makes a mark by the skill and keeps that record. Not unlike Sup4's suggestion, a Critial success granted an automatic advancement opportunity, but one he'd still have to wait for training to add in.

When training (advancement) began, and points gained by Crit were automatically assessed, and the new rank recorded. For other points accrued, the player would roll against the current rank and have to get the next rank up or better to advance. Harnmaster is a percentile system, but rolling a d20 would work alright against Skill Ranks. Because a higher than current result was needed, accruing more skill ranks gets harder and harder as you go up. The player rolls for each point accrued, and any "misses" are simply lost; rolling higher gains another rank and thus makes the next subsequent attemps to advance harder.

This system also gets away from INT being the governing stat for all classes, which makes little sense for the most martial types, anyway.

 

[rabindranath72]

You might want to check how Basic Roleplaying (i.e. Call of Cthulhu) handles skills. No skill points, skills improve based on use. Easy to track, and allows creation of high level characters without the accounting nightmare that is d20.

 

[Sutek]

Ooo...yeah. CoC is a great skill system too. Entirely skill based play, so it has to be.

 

[Autel]

I split the skills from character advancement in all my d20 games as well, but what I did was skill advancement was experienced based. Players could opt to spend their experience on skills and put some of their xp into their character levels. I also allowed them to pick up extra feats with xp too. It gave the characters much more flexibility and creates a better dynamic in the group in my opinion.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

If you're looking for something along the same line, but simpler, you can use one of my old house rules. You can't improve a skill that you didn't either use in an important situation or train in. If you earn skill points in the middle of a desert and you haven't been to a body of water at some point during your last level you can't improve swim.