Those pesky Minbari

[Greg Smith]

I have another anti-Minbari tactic.

When using fighters to attack Minbari ships, make sure that the fighters are positioned in the same arc that he would use to fire his mini-beams at your capital ship. That way he must chose whether to attack your fighters or your ship. If your fighters are in a different arc, he could attack both.

 

[philogara]

Oh I am sorry. I must have missed the part in the forum rules where my posts have to be run past you to make sure they give you happy fuzzies inside.

Think you're getting a bit carried away here. Take two aspirin and lie down in a darkened room.


Seriously I am confused as to what the naysayers actually want:

No stealth? Then how are they the technologically advanced race from the show, which after is all is what the game is based around.
No damage? Even more luck then in the Stealth roll!

Yes, the game has bits which I think I wrong, but for every player, there is an interpretation of who it "should" be.

Just remember that Matt and the rest do this as their livelihoods - they are not going out of their way to nark you off (I assume... :? )

 

[Locutus9956]

I think theres another thing people are forgetting as well, with the exception of tournaments and the like you can make up house rules for your local campaigns and the like if stealth REALLY bugs you that much

Heres a couple ideas were trying out at my local club (Before anyone goes on the warpath by the way I personally dont think stealth is broken as it is but it aint perfect either (its not unfair but I just find it makes the Minbari a bit TOO dice dependant as it stands (I havent played SFOS though)))

Alternate Stealth 1: Sensor Lock Phase: Ships may make a stealth roll for all valid targets at the start of their fire step BEFORE they declare fire (but after manevuering and special orders) I would imagine this to work as the captain firing only on the targets he can actually lock onto (but nontheless being able to attept to detect multiple ships per turn)

Alernate Stealth 2: B5 Wars Stealth: All ranges vs Minbari count double. Thats all. No stealth rolls. The problem here is that with pre SFOS Minbari anyway, they are a bit TOO easy to kill (just get close and annihilate them. Needless to say with this rule perhaps notching up minbari Hull ratings by 1 point might be a good idea.

But to be honest I dont have any real issues with the rules as they stand other than the luck issue

 

[DETHSTRYKER]

THAT'S IT! I'M INFORCING EVERYONE HERE TO INVEST IN SPELL CHECK!!! THERE IS TOO MUCH HOSTILITY AND MISSPELLED WORDS TO GET ANYTHING DONE AROUND HERE!!!!!


Okay, i am through.

 

[Nomad]

Thanks for the game report, Obsidian.

It occurs to me that a lot of negative reaction to the SFoS changes to the Minbari centres specifically on the Sharlin, with a sharp increase in hull and crew and three times the forward laser firepower.

The rest of the Minbari fleet has been upgraded, but not that much, and inspires (in me, at any rate) respect rather than despair. In your battle, both of the Tigaras went down while neither of the Sharlins appears to have suffered significant harm. My normal (SFB inspired) approach is to hit the biggest enemy first; against the Minbari, this may be a mistake.Try to kill the supporting vessels first to hopefully maximise your numerical advantage over the big fish later on, perhaps?

And thanks for flagging up the allocation points thing, I had not spotted that.

 

[deathlynx]

The Minbari won the war agasinst the EA when all the EA had were lots of small ships.

And which show have you been watching. The Minbari didn't win the EM war.

Let's be fair LBH, the Minbari won the EM war in all but name...Had it not been for dumb luck (or self fulfilling prophecy if you'd rather) they would have wiped the Galaxy clean of Humans...

 

[Obsidian]

Sry but your Minbari selection is not what i call a proper Fleet.
Why Sharlin?
4 Shantavi and 2 Teshlan and you have a bigger Fleet, more nasty long range Beams and you are fast enough to outmaneuvre some boresighted weapons! Against your EA force i would field 2 shantavi and 6 teshlan...

You make a good point, but let me see if I can explain the reasoning behind the fleet choices. For the Minbari I went with the mind set of big powerful ships. Nothing says big and powerful like a Sharlin so I took two of them. To be honest, I probably should have taken Sharkaans instead. I had also contemplated 2 Shantavi instead of the second Sharlin but I knew this was going to devolve into a short range melee and didn't want to chance getting out flanked.

For the EA, I went with a strategy that combined numbers with the chance to beat Stealth. In retrospect, the Skirmish level choices might have been better if I had used some of the Hyperion variants but I'm still unsure of that.

The use of Teshlans and Shantavi does give the Minbari player a greater total number of ships. You lose a little bit in terms of stealth and your fighter cover is very much depleted, but the big guns on the Shantavi are just scary. They are also an unknown quantity to me. I'm used to seeing a Sharlin plopped in the middle of the battlefield and shooting in all directions. The Shantavi would seem to require a little bit more finesse.

When I have the chance I'll game out the 4 Shantavi and 2 Teshlan fleet Vs. the EA. Not sure if it will be the same EA fleet or one with the Hyperion variants. One question though, given the speed differences in the Ships do you advise keeping the fleet together or to try flanking manuevers with the Teshlans?

When using fighters to attack Minbari ships, make sure that the fighters are positioned in the same arc that he would use to fire his mini-beams at your capital ship. That way he must chose whether to attack your fighters or your ship. If your fighters are in a different arc, he could attack both.

That's a great idea Greg. I n playing my game I had put the Omegas and the Novas straight ahead of the Sharlins specifically to make them have to choose which ships to fire on. As I did this, I realized that I could further confuse the choice by flooding the forward arc with fighters. Unfortunatley, the Nials were prepared to jump the fighters so no "Scanners to full" action for that round.

I think I've got another idea on how to maximize the use of the scanenrs to full action. Has anyone tried having their fighters escort the warships into range of the Minbari ships using the advanced Support rules? Combining that with a couple of free flights could make it a bit of a tough choice for the Minbari fighter flights.

 

[B5freak]

We use the escort rule all the time. Just remember, if the fighters move with the ship their escorting, they're pretty much done for the turn unless someone attacks their ship.

Did you use Concentrate Firepower? I've found that since no roll is required and you've got the whole forward arc, staying on Concentrate Firepower for the turns when you're closing is pretty much a given for Minbari and Centauri.

I've tried using the Missile cruiser variant for the Hyperions. I kind of like them since they've got the same Hull, Damage, and Crew as the standard, but at one less Priority level. Granted, you lose the Laser, but the extra range and no boresight on the missiles at least gives them the option of using Concentrate Firepower or going on All Power to Engines and still firing. Seeing as the Centauri and Minbari can both pop a Hyperion in one turn, from outside the Hyperion's range, I'd rather see a Skirmish ship go up in flames than a Raid.

 

[MongooseMatt]

When using fighters to attack Minbari ships, make sure that the fighters are positioned in the same arc that he would use to fire his mini-beams at your capital ship. That way he must chose whether to attack your fighters or your ship. If your fighters are in a different arc, he could attack both.

Have you been reading my S&P article? Yup, I put that one in as well - well played.

 

[frobisher]

THAT'S IT! I'M INFORCING EVERYONE HERE TO INVEST IN SPELL CHECK!!! THERE IS TOO MUCH HOSTILITY AND MISSPELLED WORDS TO GET ANYTHING DONE AROUND HERE!!!!!


Okay, i am through.

It's "enforcing" and "mispelt" And the above would fail the grammer checker too

 

[MongooseMatt]

My normal (SFB inspired) approach is to hit the biggest enemy first; against the Minbari, this may be a mistake.Try to kill the supporting vessels first to hopefully maximise your numerical advantage over the big fish later on, perhaps?

I haven't decided on this yet. My normal method is to go for small fish first but of late I have started to go for the bigger stuff in the first couple of turns, with some success. Really demoralises an opponent when he has to take off a big slab of metal off the table early on

 

[H]

When using fighters to attack Minbari ships, make sure that the fighters are positioned in the same arc that he would use to fire his mini-beams at your capital ship. That way he must chose whether to attack your fighters or your ship. If your fighters are in a different arc, he could attack both.

Have you been reading my S&P article? Yup, I put that one in as well - well played.

"Fighters? what are they? "
"They are those little buzzy things we just e-mined sir"
"hah! we don't need no stinkin fighters" :roll:

 

[Greg Smith]

When using fighters to attack Minbari ships, make sure that the fighters are positioned in the same arc that he would use to fire his mini-beams at your capital ship. That way he must chose whether to attack your fighters or your ship. If your fighters are in a different arc, he could attack both.

Have you been reading my S&P article? Yup, I put that one in as well - well played.

Since I trounced one Minbari fleet in the February tournement and was the only one who wasn't totally smashed by Dralafi's (the winner), I can say with authority that Minbari are not unbeatable.

 

[MongooseMatt]

"Fighters? what are they? "
"They are those little buzzy things we just e-mined sir"
"hah! we don't need no stinkin fighters" :roll:

Yup, the Narn enjoy a certain advantage against the Minbari - now find the tools other fleets have

 

[B5freak]

During my Battle of the Line scenario at a local convention, the EA admiral found it useful to engage at close range and then shoot at any of his own ships which were both crippled and within 4" of a Minbari. Not really legal under normal circumstances, but point for point it worked out better than trying to actually shoot at the Minbari (note, fair amount of humor and sarcasm intended)

 

[lastbesthope]

The Minbari won the war agasinst the EA when all the EA had were lots of small ships.

And which show have you been watching. The Minbari didn't win the EM war.

Let's be fair LBH, the Minbari won the EM war in all but name...Had it not been for dumb luck (or self fulfilling prophecy if you'd rather) they would have wiped the Galaxy clean of Humans...

True, they only technically lost the war, but if Tal wants to put words in Msprange's mouth, msprange can smack him down himself. but noone misquotes the series in my presence!

THAT'S IT! I'M INFORCING EVERYONE HERE TO INVEST IN SPELL CHECK!!! THERE IS TOO MUCH HOSTILITY AND MISSPELLED WORDS TO GET ANYTHING DONE AROUND HERE!!!!!


Okay, i am through.

It's "enforcing" and "mispelt" And the above would fail the grammer checker too

Besides, I know how to spell, I just sometimes mishit a key and don't notice before I post.

LBH

 

[Obsidian]

Here's another thought. Has anyone tried loading up on Breaching pods against the Minbari?

It sounds kinda crazy, but given the number of fighter flights you get with your EA ships you can easily sub out a few of the Starfurys for pods. Odds are they'll get destroyed before they even make a difference, but if they get through you don;t have to worry about Stealth checks anymore.

 

[Traveller-61]

Phew! Nice to see the discussion going on how to beat the Minbari and not just moan about them!

For the record I'd like to see the Ancients have a bit more of an edge against the stealth, but you can't have everything..... :wink:

I cannot add much to the tactical debate - there are much more qualified posters around here for that; all I would say is don't forget the psychological battle: if you begin to believe they are unbeatable - they will be!

DW

 

[Pauly_D]

Just seen the SFOS Brakiri
shiny emines on the Takata Mine Cruiser, i like
League forces are gonna be good against Minbari

Brakiri provide shiny emines to blast them to pieces
Drazi provide numbers of ships so league can have a few ships to move after all minbari have moved
Vree are AF so kill off nials and Tishats
and Abbai are just bait with tons and tons of interceptors

 

[Nomad]

and Abbai are just bait with tons and tons of interceptors

..and against the Minbari, interceptors would help...how?

Just kidding, good point.