Those pesky Minbari

[Scimitar]

That's my understanding too, and why the Corvan is the best scout against Minbari. They kill any scout fast, but you can set out a buncha Corvans without a lot of problems, some will survive to help against a couple of Minbari. Also mix in some Rutarian flights for more, and survivable, fighter support.

 

[Obsidian]

because it says "target" ship, I've intrepreted it to mean one ship, not all in range.

Again, I read that differently. To me, that says that I must target each ship individually and roll a crew quality check. For each one that passes, reduce the stealth by 1.

 

[Jhary]

Sorry but advice for tactics no rules for some equitment that neutralize this stealth? And no rule to reduce Stealth more then by 1?

Hey guys think over this better once more.

Its an Shame that Minbary Player now have the label powergaming.

 

[B5freak]

I just went back and re-read the Scout section. From the context and wording used, the implication that you may affect one ship and one ship only is pretty clear.

"So long as it is within 24" of a ship with the Stealth trait, it may make a Crew Quality check at the start of the Attack phase. If it rolls an 8 or more, the target ship will have its Stealth score reduced by one for the remainder of the turn."

"Instead of reducing the target's Stealth score, the scout ship may try to redirect attacks aimed against the enemy ship."

"a ship", "a Crew Quality check", "the target's", "the enemy ship"

 

[prelude_to_war]

The rule states, 'within 24" of a ship with the Stealth trait'. If it applied to multiple ships, it would read, 'within 24" of ships with the Stealth trait'. Singular versus plural - in this case singular so one ship IMO.

My question is on using Scout to redirect; if you roll 9+, "you may choose any one weapon system on any ship attacking the enemy target. You may re-roll all AD for that weapon system that failed to hit the target". Does this mean any and all ships attacking or just the one?

 

[Dralafi]

Locutus9956 was it actually Matthew Sprange you asked at Gencon or some other mongoose personel? It is important considering that he wrote (I would say the entire game but I'm not 100% on that) the game. And while I was at the tournament in February at Mongoose Towers stealth was rolled once per ship, and if you want to ask them yourself, email the rules question guys on this site and get the answer from them, I hope thats official enough for you. Or email Matt directly if you so choose.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I

When did this stop being a table top game and become a RPG. What you have just described is the typical DM only force.

Yet you straight out admitted that the game is slewed in favor of the Minbari.

Okay. The first thing to set straight is that this is not Usenet - you don't get to put words in other people's mouths. That is _not_ what I said.

The Minbari _are_ a tactical problem. So are the Narn. The EA. The League fleets. Every fleet has its 'thing'. This is the Minbari's.

Also, a complaint about getting mauled for three whole weeks before some tactics get posted beggars belief - find these tactics yourself! That is what the game is supposed to be!!!

 

[MongooseMatt]

For example, it was pretty common knowledge a while back that a great way to deal with Stealth was to split your fire between as many targets as possible. You have to roll against each target so you get a chance to beat the Stealth on each one making it less of an "all or nothing" proposition.

I am _amazed_ it took this long for someone to raise this Yes, this is a valid tactic. . .

 

[philogara]

The whole point of stealth is to make it difficult for others to find them, now we have rules to aid in the detection of stealthed ships, and people are still complaining. If it was easy to ignore stealth, then what would be its point, and what would be the distinction of the Minbari fleet?

I also have to ask if Mongoose is so bent on flavor and feel of Bab5 and uses this as the excuse for making the boneheads the uber wanking choice then why the virtual rape of the Vorlons and Shadows?

Presumably a large number of people have got into this game BECAUSE it is a B5 game, so yes, it should have the flavour of B5. Lets not turn it into a Hollywood movie ("WE'll use the name of this popular book, and write our own story for the film").

re: Vorlons and Shadows, I agree absolutely, (at least re: Shadwos, I've no experience of the Vorlons). Mongoose, please be consistant.

I think the real problem lies in the limited range of levels. In the B5 universe, an Omega is not a match for the Sharlin, and I would suggest two are not either. Expecting the Warlock to bridge that gap in one generation of ship building is a bit much.

 

[Tank]

If your a centauri player then the Manouver to shield them special action using a covran to shield can be a really annoying tactic, I know, a friend of mine does it regularly.

 

[philogara]

If your a centauri player then the Manouver to shield them special action using a covran to shield can be a really annoying tactic, I know, a friend of mine does it regularly.

Hi Tank,

But has he seen the recent Manoveur to Shield Them ruling - http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10355&highlight=shield

he, he

 

[Tal Hawkins]

I

When did this stop being a table top game and become a RPG. What you have just described is the typical DM only force.

Yet you straight out admitted that the game is slewed in favor of the Minbari.

Okay. The first thing to set straight is that this is not Usenet - you don't get to put words in other people's mouths. That is _not_ what I said.

The Minbari _are_ a tactical problem. So are the Narn. The EA. The League fleets. Every fleet has its 'thing'. This is the Minbari's.

Also, a complaint about getting mauled for three whole weeks before some tactics get posted beggars belief - find these tactics yourself! That is what the game is supposed to be!!!

You VERY clearly said that the Minbari would have an advantage for the next 3 weeks until new tactics were put out. If it takes new tactics that no one else has thought of to this point to take the Minbari on as an equal foe then quite obviously the Minbari are overpowered compared to the other choices.

So tell me what part of that is putting words in your mouth? Or would you like to rephrase what you said?

 

[H]

I think it was meant more along the lines of The minbari are tough, if you can't figure out any tactics, were gonna give you a hand. Instead of you can't beat them till we say how! I admit, it's a fine line but most games, wargames, pc games, etc always end up with hint's and tips. I think the Minbari pose an interesting and difficult situation, and Matt is helping with some ideas in S+P rather than it being the only way to deal with em.. everyone will figure out there own ideas? use small ships and jump point onto them causing damage? Send in more breaching pods than you can shake a stick at and capture them?

 

[Tal Hawkins]

I think it was meant more along the lines of The minbari are tough, if you can't figure out any tactics, were gonna give you a hand.

So are you saying he is calling the Minbari the "easy mode" of Call to Arms?


BTW, if what you say is true about how to beat the Minbari then the game has TOTALLY gone agaisnt the show. The Minbari won the war agasinst the EA when all the EA had were lots of small ships. Would be rather silly that the winning strategy on the game is to use lots of little ships.

 

[H]

games are a silly thing, dice rolling can win you a battle even when your tactics are wrong.
In all fairness opening jump gates on people isn't something we ever saw in the show, yes we saw close and ambush style use, but not actual opening onto a ship to cause damage kinda thing.
I dunno Tal, the Minbo debate could rage for ever!! Maybe we should see what is in S+P before we end up wanting to kill all Minbo players!

 

[philogara]

I think it was meant more along the lines of The minbari are tough, if you can't figure out any tactics, were gonna give you a hand.

So are you saying he is calling the Minbari the "easy mode" of Call to Arms?


BTW, if what you say is true about how to beat the Minbari then the game has TOTALLY gone agaisnt the show. The Minbari won the war agasinst the EA when all the EA had were lots of small ships. Would be rather silly that the winning strategy on the game is to use lots of little ships.

EA ships were technologically inferior AND outnumbered. And in show terms, the EA probably doesn't have a way to beat the Minbari at any stage.

 

[Right Hand of God]

My my my this is getting heated isn't it? :roll:

I have several fleets, minbari being one of them and I can tell you now I have had my bone head handed to me several times by other fleets whereas my Centauri fleet has never lost a game!

How some people can berate Mongoose and get quite personal about it is beyond me, this is a game!!!! It's not real and nobody is dying. So get a grip.

Minbari are good, they have excellent weapons on the whole, and stealth is a superb advantage. But they lack numbers, can be out manouvered and their fighters overwhelmed. Having read four pages of this thread in one go, what I see is a lot of people saying "help I can't beat the minbari. It isn't fair, they are so hard etc etc. Every fleet has it's advantages and disadvantages. The game requires you to think of tactics relevant to the fight the force you face. The tactics used against EA won't work against Minbari, so come up with some different ones.

My bone heads suffer from not having enough lower PL ships, and from having too few fighters and very small flights. Even though they have had the crew and damage levels beefed up they are not as resiliant as ships of other races.

I've played games where all of my minbari ships have survived with just minor damage owing to poor stealth rolls and I've played games where my entire fleet is dust when my oponent didn't fail a single stealth roll.

You can almost doubtless rely on a minbari player to do something stupid on the basis that having stealth may help pull off a daft tactic, watch for this and punish the player when they do.

The best tactic I have had used against me is not the use of scouts of fighters but the use of the different advantages inherrent in every fleet.

You need clever tactics and you need to use your ships well to fight and beat the minbari, the best way of doing it in my experience is a mixture of two ideas that have been posted already.

Use the high PL of the minbari against them and outnumber them to get the initiative, and target as many different ships with each one of your own as you can, even if it means getting up close and personal with ships you know won't survive.

Ships with 5 or 6 different fire arcs are the bane of a minbari players life if used well. Foward, aft, port, starboard, turrets and BS all alow you to target a different vessel per arc and make a stealth roll.

Use what you have to your own best advantage or go and play snakes and ladders

 

[Greg Smith]

In all fairness opening jump gates on people isn't something we ever saw in the show, yes we saw close and ambush style use, but not actual opening onto a ship to cause damage kinda thing.

We did, in 'In the Beginning'.

 

[H]

really? must watch that again. I know it was slated quite a lot but I enjoyed it last time Obvioulsy B5 TV jumpgates don;t cause as much damage as ACTA SFOS jump gates.. :?

 

[duryeaa]

BTW, if what you say is true about how to beat the Minbari then the game has TOTALLY gone agaisnt the show. The Minbari won the war agasinst the EA when all the EA had were lots of small ships. Would be rather silly that the winning strategy on the game is to use lots of little ships.

Do some research on this fluff argument.

There is never a statement that Earth Force manages to significantly outnumber the Minbari in a full on tactical engagement. In fact there are some indicators that the Minbari are outnumbering the EF forces in fights (now doesn't THAT make you tremble, Hyperions and Novas outnumbered by Sharlins?)

Watch the B5 movie "In the Beginning" where the boneheads are clearly waxing cap ships. EF has a full-fledged navy coming out of the Dilgar War, which helps found the arrogance starting the Minbari War.

hiffano, you might be interested in the movie as well, the Black Star (a Sharlin) jumps an EF fleet and pretty clearly destroys several vessels by opening a jump point on them as it emerges from hyperspace.

Despite arguments here about the so called "power" of the EarthForce and EA tech in the B5 series, Sheridan clearly thinks that EarthForce is STILL outclassed by the Minbari even late in the show, despite EA bravado to the contrary. The Warlock and other shadow derivatives MAY be redressing that balance at the end of the series but there is no firm indication of this.

As for "boneheads are unduly hard" in ACTA, I'm reserving judgement on that until we've seen some more play time. Sharlins are one of the toughest War PL ships but Omegas are one of the toughest Battle grade ships and outnumber Sharlins 2 to 1.