Those pesky Minbari

[Silvereye]

Andy,

Did the Minbari player use Concentrate Firepower! much? I'm also finding that the Hull 6 is a big factor.

In the opening volleys The Tinashi's used it to great effect to annihilate the Artemis and the Sharlin used it to cabbage the Nova in the first turn. After thet there were generally targets in multiple fire arcs or manoeuvering was required to bring targets into arc for it to be used much after the fleets closed.

 

[homerun]

Yeah i've found surviving the first or seocnd turn is the big problem. if you can survive that whithout being maimed then you have a reasonable chance.

I find it odd that so many fighters failed to strike. Minbari are pretty fragile and while I would use them more against lighter ships I thing they should do some okay damage versus a tinashi. How many fighters did you attack with. I ussually only use my fighter once my ships get in range of fusion cannons that way they have to choose. Thanks for the info.

Andy,

Did the Minbari player use Concentrate Firepower! much? I'm also finding that the Hull 6 is a big factor.

In the opening volleys The Tinashi's used it to great effect to annihilate the Artemis and the Sharlin used it to cabbage the Nova in the first turn. After thet there were generally targets in multiple fire arcs or manoeuvering was required to bring targets into arc for it to be used much after the fleets closed.

 

[Silvereye]

I was generally flooding an arc with 4 fighters You loose the pulse cannon but can still fire the missiles. That means you have to spread 6 dice across those targets, so on less then 2 FCs Vs a fighter the fighters have a reasonable chance of surviving.

Dinner calls. Will post more later...

 

[Rorschach]

I'll be interested to see what the survival rate on your breaching pods is like. Given their slow speed and relatively weak dodge, I'd imagine any kind of concentrated fusion cannon fire will pretty much wipe them out before they can get anywhere close. The Minbari player wouldn't need to intercept with his fighters in that case, so putting EA fighters in a support role for the pods wouldn't really do you any good.

Dittos on that interest. Every play simulation I've run shows the Minbari easily vaping the horde of Breach pods before they can attack. Even if we apply a temp House Rule of Attack Craft moving last, attacking first, the 18" Mini-beams tend to strafe down the Pods anyways (their Dodges are abyssmal). Sure, that's Minibeams that aren't targetting ships, but the Minbari rely on the NL's for the real damage. And buying all those breach pods just to soak up MB shots is a tad expensive.

If only one could board directly, without having to immobilize an Enemy first! Then I'd roll a few Secundus right up on that Sharlin!

BTW, in discussing EA tactics, the Slow Loading stuff versus Stealth keeps coming up. Did we ever get an Official Answer on whether Slow Loading is expended if the Stealth roll fails? The rule wording completely would indicate this, yet I can swear I saw a post earlier in the year that said Slow Loads aren't wasted.

-D

 

[homerun]

Idon't see it working a lot against sharlins (too many troops) or even tinashis but raid level like has been discussed may have some advantages. If he's taking teshlans and ashintas he may not afford to waste shots on breaching pods. I think its risky but i am wondering how often it could pay off if ever. However as a distraction it could help. Fusion cannons still hurt and raid level minbari even with teshlans still need fusion cannons. So who knows.

I'll be interested to see what the survival rate on your breaching pods is like. Given their slow speed and relatively weak dodge, I'd imagine any kind of concentrated fusion cannon fire will pretty much wipe them out before they can get anywhere close. The Minbari player wouldn't need to intercept with his fighters in that case, so putting EA fighters in a support role for the pods wouldn't really do you any good.

Dittos on that interest. Every play simulation I've run shows the Minbari easily vaping the horde of Breach pods before they can attack. Even if we apply a temp House Rule of Attack Craft moving last, attacking first, the 18" Mini-beams tend to strafe down the Pods anyways (their Dodges are abyssmal). Sure, that's Minibeams that aren't targetting ships, but the Minbari rely on the NL's for the real damage. And buying all those breach pods just to soak up MB shots is a tad expensive.

If only one could board directly, without having to immobilize an Enemy first! Then I'd roll a few Secundus right up on that Sharlin!

BTW, in discussing EA tactics, the Slow Loading stuff versus Stealth keeps coming up. Did we ever get an Official Answer on whether Slow Loading is expended if the Stealth roll fails? The rule wording completely would indicate this, yet I can swear I saw a post earlier in the year that said Slow Loads aren't wasted.

-D

 

[Obsidian]

Even if we apply a temp House Rule of Attack Craft moving last,

Auxiliary craft always move last. It was part of what made them so deadly in the original release. They moved after all the capital ships, but could be(and usually were) nominated to fire before all the capital ships.

Movememnt phase goes like this.

Player with initiative determines who moves Capital ships first.

Capital ships move

Player with initiative determines who move Auxiliary Craft first.

Auxiliary Craft move


So if the player with initiative wanted, the turn could look like this

Player 1 Moves Cap ships
Player 2 Moves Cap ships
Player 2 Moves Aux Craft
Player 1 Moves Aux Craft

 

[B5freak]

Obsidian, I think it was "move last, shoot first". Shouldn't make a lick of difference though since the rules state that a boarding action is initiated "by moving one or more breaching pods into contact with an enemy ship". By my reading that means the boarding action happens instantly, ergo, the target ship doesn't get to fire against the pod that turn.

 

[B_Steele]

Freak is right...the Breaching Pods Special Action requires your target to be stationary, but then you get to throw as many of your ship's Troops at them as you'd like to (Ikorta anyone?), but they attack last.

Breaching Pod counters (or hopefully eventually miniatures) merely have to attach to the target's stem...attacking in the End Phase like any other assault, but striking first.

I'm serious here...breaching pods launched quickly from a large carrier emerging from a jump point can be DEADLY. Especially to the low-troop Minbari vessels. Just keep rolling those dice and getting rid of slews of crew, then occasionally...you even get a crit. Sure, they might die...but on a 1 in 6? I'd say that is a might better than trying to fly around in a Starfury trying to dodge Fusion Cannon fire.

So, if you know that Minbari are on the menu...hold some stuff in reserve and then unleash Breaching Pods of doom as soon as you can!!! It is BEAUTIFUL.

What? Work to do? Oh it can wai...zzzzaaaappppp!

Back to work for me.... :lol:

Bry

 

[Rorschach]

Breaching Pod counters (or hopefully eventually miniatures) merely have to attach to the target's stem...attacking in the End Phase like any other assault, but striking first.

I'm serious here...breaching pods launched quickly from a large carrier emerging from a jump point can be DEADLY.

I thought breach pods were subject to that same launch delay as Fighters - they launch on one turn - touching the base of the launching ship. They sit there for that whole turn, then next Turn can move their distance and attack. But of course, that's a whole turn of getting shot at if the target player is concerned - not to mention time for the enemy to run away. Your comment implies launch and attack can be in the same turn - is this an exception for Breaching Pods?

I didn't realize they get their attack just by touching the enemy ship stem though - I thought they went after enemy firing like the rest of fighter craft. (Which is another reason I like a Houe Rule of all attack craft attacking first before ships).

-D

 

[Silvereye]

I have finally finished typing up that EA/Minbari battle report and posted it into the Battle Reports thread.

 

[B5freak]

I went back and re-read the rules. Boarding actions don't take place until the Attack Phase, so I'd guess pods would be viable targets for any anti-fighter weaponry in the turn that they attach to the hull.

Given that the pods have to launch and sit there for a turn, then slowly creep towards the ship, and then sit there in anti-fighter range for at least one shooting phase, the attrition rate is going to be ugly.

 

[Obsidian]

I'm serious here...breaching pods launched quickly from a large carrier emerging from a jump point can be DEADLY.

Wait a minute... Are you saying that a breaching pod can be launched and conduct its attack in the same turn? Does this therefore mean that if you get a ship with breaching pods within 3" of an enemy ship you can launch a pod and place it directly on the opposing ship? This would dramatically increase the effectiveness and make closing with the Minbari even more of a good idea.

The trick of course is to survive long enough to get within that range.

 

[B_Steele]

Now, Matt can overrule this, but in my crew on this side of the pond are fine with Breaching Pods clamping on at the launch.

The way we figure it, is if Dogfighting is not considered an Attack (as per the definition of the Attack Phase) then a Breaching Pod that makes it into contact with the enemy's stem AT ANY TIME should be considered to be attached - and therefore will let out their marines in the End Phase.

Again, Matthew can absolutely correct me on this, but my crew runs it this way...mostly because Breaching Pods are not truly 'attacking' by the nature of weapon systems and so forth. No Stealth, no dodge, etc. Just a bunch of crazy marines ready to die for the cause.

I mean, if the Launch Shuttles and Breaching Pods Special action can get marines across the void in such an expedient fasion as to get to assault that same turn, I don't see why even more specialised and vulnerable Breaching Pods that you essentially purchased cannot as well.

Matthew? Your take on this, boss?

-Bry

 

[B5freak]

I'm serious here...breaching pods launched quickly from a large carrier emerging from a jump point can be DEADLY.

Sorry, couldn't resist this one :lol: (all in good humor)

EA Avenger opens jump point, wait one turn.
EA Avenger comes through jump point, wait one turn.
EA Avenger launches 5 pods (assume Scramble Scramble), wait one turn.
Pods leap into action! :lol:

 

[Matt]

Sorry, couldn't resist this one (all in good humor)

EA Avenger opens jump point, wait one turn.
EA Avenger comes through jump point, wait one turn.
EA Avenger launches 5 pods (assume Scramble Scramble), wait one turn.
Pods leap into action!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Chernobyl]

I don't think they can attack the turn they're launched because attack craft are now simply placed in contact with the base of the mothership. Only the Sky Serpent breaks this rule with its 8" catapult launch, right?
They can't move until the turn after they're launched, so how would they attack the same turn?

Chern

 

[B_Steele]

I didn't mean INSTANTLY. What I was implying was the narrative 'quickly'. The rules state that they would have to wait a turn before getting out there and causing some hurt, but even then...I'd rather have them try to do just that than simply take T-bolts and get smoked.

What I was asking the boss about was whether or not the Pods are still eligible targets from fire once they have come into contact with the enemy...my crew says no, making them a very viable assault tactic against the Minbari.

I did not mean to be confusing in my Breaching Pod glee...

But then again, I also use them as my 1 patrolling flight when coming out of Hyperspace near the enemy too...

Hope that clarifies what I was talking about. I didn't mean it was going to be a perfect solution in one turn, but if you are always looking for the one turn victory...this is not your game. This game is tactical, which means you might have to sacrifice a turn or two to get those little buggers in position. Then...when the Minbari are so focused on either dealing with the Pods or focusing on your heavy hitters...the other should come in and give them the old right hook!



Bry

 

[Rorschach]

It is probably a Good Thing you can't effectively launch a breach assault the turn you pop out of Jump Gate (Imagine a Morshin dropping a full load of pods on your Shadow Omega straight out of jump Point).

In general, I don't like Launch Delay on attacks one bit (especially for those slongshot launchers like Drazi). But I don't see an easy counterbalance to possible abuses

In general though, the slow speed and bad dodge of pods means that they should get to assault just by touching. Having to weather the extra anti-fighter fire, even if you have screening fighters, would truly render them useless. Let's hope Matt comes back with a favorable answer.

-D

 

[homerun]

I think though it says that as soon as the breaching pods come into contact they are active. Does this mean they can be still shot at? The way I read it is as soon they touch the ships it is initated but not necessarily resolved like dogfight. It would be good if we can get some clarification on this. It would be nice because its so hard to get breaching pods to work in the first place this would just be horrific since every captain will definitely blast them with everyhting they have which may not be that bad a thing but still.

I was also wondering if you support an auxillary fighter and you do a support fighter on it and that craft is doing a STF then if a fighter comes in and tries to attempt to move to dogfight, then you move the supporting fighter into base to base and initiate a dogfight. Its not clear that by intiating this dogfight with the other craft whether this keeps the enemy from getting in base to base contact so the other fighter can do all scanners to full. Its not clear but theoretically possible since how else can you move the supporting fighter to intercept for base to base. You could smoosh them together but who knows. Thanks

I went back and re-read the rules. Boarding actions don't take place until the Attack Phase, so I'd guess pods would be viable targets for any anti-fighter weaponry in the turn that they attach to the hull.

Given that the pods have to launch and sit there for a turn, then slowly creep towards the ship, and then sit there in anti-fighter range for at least one shooting phase, the attrition rate is going to be ugly.

 

[Rorschach]

It just occurred to me that 3-4 fighters on CAP can completely block a Pod attack, even with escorting fighters. Escorts move in to "attack and draw the CAP to dogfight, but then (with standard fighter bases) there's probably no physical way for Pod markers to move "past" them into peg contact.

Also (no rules handy Q), what happens if an enemy fighter touches both a Fighter and a Pod in dogfight? Do I get to use the Fighter's better Dogfight with a +1 for the Pod?

So, at least Pod tactics might encourage a Minbari player to bring a Morshin instead of a Tinashi - good trade to me...