Tholian query

[Myrm]

Quick question - is the Tholian DD significantly different between SFB and FC as I was looking at the SFB SSD last night and it seems that its ACtA damage score is out of sync with the general rule compared to its number of hull boxes (due to losing hull boxes for other systems).

Is that to be expected in variant ships that do the same as they come out in future products?

 

[Nerroth]

Quick question - is the Tholian DD significantly different between SFB and FC

Not particularly.

(There's a range of low-toner FC Ship Cards over at the Commander's Circle.)

 

[Ben2]

No it's not, but the Tholian DD only has 5 hull boxes in SFB/FC compared to the PC with 7, which I imagine caused problems in converting it, and is why the DD only has 14 damage.

However in SFB/FC it does have 27 shields on every facing and this isn't reflected in ACTA. In the SFB background the DD was the Tholian heavy combat unit for quite a period of time, and the 27 shields on each facing did help it against Klingon cruisers like the D6, where the DD could outmaneuver the D6 and packed a decent punch with 4 phaser-1s and 2 disruptors.

Obviously this has changed for ACTA and it's just an upgraded Patrol Corvette rather than being the limit of what you could build on a single PC sized hull.

Someone who's more of an SFBer will doubtless know more.

 

[Myrm]

Yes, those were the differences from PC to DD that I was aware of and for me it meant the Damage was too high for the Hull boxes - though I can see a sensible argument foor game design to take into account that in SFB thats swapping two hull boxes for weapons and so leave the hull at 14 in line with the PC - but the shields being low were what I noticed. I am half tempted to restat the thing for my purposes and see how it does in points terms by guessing an alteration.

 

[Rambler]

Myrm - I would be careful restating the DD. Yes it is a little different that what the stats would read in SFB but functionally this put the unit where it need to be in a fleet game which is a Heavy Destroyer not a Light Cruiser. If we used the raw stats from SFB to stat this ship it would have a Damage rating of 10/4 with 27 Shields, sounds awsome right? What about burn throughs? If you recieved just 7 burn throughs your DD is crippled where as your PC is still up and running.

Ok how did they counter this? They gave the PC and the DD the same Damage Rating. Now to counter this 'Higher" damage Rating they had to reduce something. So they traded 7 shield boxes for 4 extra hull boxes and raising the Crippled Threshold by 1. That is a very generous trade if you ask me because you still get to use the AP2S to regen 2d6 shield points. Can a argument be made to add 3 more shield boxes to the DD sure but does it really need to be made?

Also if you compare this to its trdition foes the WarEagle, Old Light Cruiser, and D6 its not really that far out of line. The WE has 12/4 (and armour) with 24 Shields, the D6 is 20/7 with 18 Shields (Double F), and the oCL which is fair enough a little large but not completely out of wack at 24/8 but only 18 Shields. If you gave the DD 27 Shields with the added Hull Damage you would be really grossly skewed.

Where as with the adjustment they made It is still pretty impresive for a Destroyer and leaves room for the War Cruiser to fill its role a a Light Cruiser. A Fed FFB is a 16/6 with 20 unit, a F5 is a 14/5 with 16(2xF), and the SkyHawk is 12/4 and 20. The Tholian DD fits right in there nicely.

I honestly hope a similar system is used with other Variants. I fully Expect the Fed Lollipop DDM and the DD to have the same Damage rating but different weapons and power effects or special rules. I also do not think Carriers should be given weaker Damage Rating because they lose hull or other systems to add fighters.

 

[Myrm]

Myrm - I would be careful restating the DD. Yes it is a little different that what the stats would read in SFB but functionally this put the unit where it need to be in a fleet game which is a Heavy Destroyer not a Light Cruiser.

Oh Im aware of this, although it was the main Tholian heavy combat unit for some time so treating it as a light cruiser might be justified to an extent - while the basic metric of hullboxes seems to hold generally - I was wondering if there was a general decision to maintain damage on vessels where the variant swapped hull boxes for systems - I mean it makes sense after all - the ship isnt suddenly harder to kill with such small changes.

I was most concerned about the lower shields than expected.

If we used the raw stats from SFB to stat this ship it would have a Damage rating of 10/4 with 27 Shields, sounds awsome right? What about burn throughs? If you recieved just 7 burn throughs your DD is crippled where as your PC is still up and running.

Burn through isnt new to me - I tended to play SFB with leaky shields...

Ok how did they counter this? They gave the PC and the DD the same Damage Rating. Now to counter this 'Higher" damage Rating they had to reduce something.

Why did they have to reduce something.....I understand the higher hull as justified by simple variance (a hull/damage relationship has limits), I do not understand why the need to balance the shields down. Especially in a game with leaky shields. It was a heavy combat unit.

. I also do not think Carriers should be given weaker Damage Rating because they lose hull or other systems to add fighters.

Agreed, definitely.....with the DD I was checking it was a deliberate acceptance of that....