Sorry....I merely used the term 'ancients' as a lump term for 'first ones older than the Vorlons'.
I realise the Shadows aren't the oldest (there's lorien if nothing else), but they are older than the Vorlons. I did say 'amongst the oldest'.
Oh - found some images of the ships the Hand gave out to their servants..
If it was possible to get some images or information on the primordial era vorlon fleet, that'd be superb....
Oh: With regards to the Thirdspace fighter/whitestar size - it seems I was overestimating them. These pictures 'to scale' images from the starship dimensions page at http://www.merzo.net/
(in fact it's a touch smaller even than Kosh's transport)
Ok......here we go....my first attempt at some rules:
Special Rules:
Damage Resistance:
Based on highly advanced technology, Thirdspace vessels are much more resilient to attack than most other ships.
Because of this, they take damage in a very different manner:
Every successful attack on a Thirdspace vessel that beats its Hull score will cause damage, without the need to roll
for bulkhead and critical hits. Thirdspace vessels are immune to critical hits, as they have no specific vital systems.
For every hit a Thirdspace vessel suffers, roll one dice. This is how much damage it actually suffers from the hit and
is double or trebled as normal for weapons that possess the appropriate traits.
Precise weapons have no additional effect.
Thirdspace vessels have no effective Crew score, as the whole ship is a single, living entity. In
addition, they never perform Damage Control and can never be Crippled or reduced to a
Skeleton Crew. A Thirdspace vessel that has been reduced to 0 Damage has been destroyed and
is simply removed form the table.
Superior Technology:
The technical advances of the younger races pose few problems for the forces of the One.
Thirdspace ships gain a +1 bonus to all rolls they make in order to circumvent an enemy ship's Stealth.
Shields:
Thirdspace Ships are protected by advanced energy shields so potent that only the most determined attack can breach them.
Until they are overloaded and disabled, the hull itself cannot be attacked.
Thirdspace ships with the Shields trait have a defensive shield bubble, which essentially forms an additional damage track.
Any hits on a shielded vessel will automatically inflict normal damage (there being neither bulkheads nor critical systems to
be hit whilst the Shields remain), which is double or trebled as normal for weapons that possess the appropriate traits.
Note, however, that as the Shields deflect the shot before it reaches the hull, no benefit is gained from Armour Piercing or
Super Armour Piercing shots whilst a vessel has operational Shields.
Once damage equal to the Shields score of a ship has been inflicted, the shields are disabled and will no longer function
(e.g. a vessel with Shields 10 will lose shielding once it has suffered 10 points of damage to its Shields). Once the shielding
is disabled, the next new weapon system to fire on the ship will resolve hits and damage as if the ship is unshielded.
Damage carries over between turns as normal, and is not affected by Self-Repairing Traits.
The Shields themselves may recharge, however - this will be noted by a second number after a slash (e.g. a ship with Shields 10/D6
will lose shielding once it has suffered 10 points of damage, but will recover D6 damage done to its Shields at the end of each turn)
Shields do not regenerate once reduced to 0 damage remaining.
Whilst Shields are Operational, Thirdspace vessels are considered to have a hull score of 6. Once shielding is lost, they revert to their
normal hull score (this will be recorded as, for example, 6/5 - a hull score of 5, but an 'effective' hull score of 6 whilst Shields remain active).
Thirdspace Fighter:
The Thirdspace fighters are, despite their size, immensely powerful craft on a par with the corvettes and light cruisers of many species.
Not true spacecraft, these wierdly elegant vessels have no crew, but rather have an animal sentience of their own.
They are destructive and agressive servants of the One, and most often the first to be encountered.
Ship Special Rules:
Thirdspace Fighters have no crew quality score - in fact they have no crew at all!
As a result they cannot perform any special actions.
They will never Stand Down and Prepare to be Boarded!, and are too agile to be hit by Give Me Ramming Speed!
Class Thirdspace Fighter
In Service Primordial
CQ -
Troops -
Craft -
Speed 10
Turns SM
Hull 6/5
Special Rules Shields 5/1
Damage 35
Crew -
Weapon Exotic Matter Bolt
Range 5
Arc F
AD 4
Special Rules AP, Double Damage
I'm thinking either Skirmish or Raid Priority, personally I think the former.
35 hit points Damage Resistant plus the five shields translates to about 15 hit points in real terms....add in the shield benefits and that sits nicely in the bracket of Drazi Whateverbirds...which is not bad for a fighter!
Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions/Insults/Improper Offers/Analysis all welcome
I realise the Shadows aren't the oldest (there's lorien if nothing else), but they are older than the Vorlons. I did say 'amongst the oldest'.
Oh - found some images of the ships the Hand gave out to their servants..
If it was possible to get some images or information on the primordial era vorlon fleet, that'd be superb....
Oh: With regards to the Thirdspace fighter/whitestar size - it seems I was overestimating them. These pictures 'to scale' images from the starship dimensions page at http://www.merzo.net/
(in fact it's a touch smaller even than Kosh's transport)
Ok......here we go....my first attempt at some rules:
Special Rules:
Damage Resistance:
Based on highly advanced technology, Thirdspace vessels are much more resilient to attack than most other ships.
Because of this, they take damage in a very different manner:
Every successful attack on a Thirdspace vessel that beats its Hull score will cause damage, without the need to roll
for bulkhead and critical hits. Thirdspace vessels are immune to critical hits, as they have no specific vital systems.
For every hit a Thirdspace vessel suffers, roll one dice. This is how much damage it actually suffers from the hit and
is double or trebled as normal for weapons that possess the appropriate traits.
Precise weapons have no additional effect.
Thirdspace vessels have no effective Crew score, as the whole ship is a single, living entity. In
addition, they never perform Damage Control and can never be Crippled or reduced to a
Skeleton Crew. A Thirdspace vessel that has been reduced to 0 Damage has been destroyed and
is simply removed form the table.
Superior Technology:
The technical advances of the younger races pose few problems for the forces of the One.
Thirdspace ships gain a +1 bonus to all rolls they make in order to circumvent an enemy ship's Stealth.
Shields:
Thirdspace Ships are protected by advanced energy shields so potent that only the most determined attack can breach them.
Until they are overloaded and disabled, the hull itself cannot be attacked.
Thirdspace ships with the Shields trait have a defensive shield bubble, which essentially forms an additional damage track.
Any hits on a shielded vessel will automatically inflict normal damage (there being neither bulkheads nor critical systems to
be hit whilst the Shields remain), which is double or trebled as normal for weapons that possess the appropriate traits.
Note, however, that as the Shields deflect the shot before it reaches the hull, no benefit is gained from Armour Piercing or
Super Armour Piercing shots whilst a vessel has operational Shields.
Once damage equal to the Shields score of a ship has been inflicted, the shields are disabled and will no longer function
(e.g. a vessel with Shields 10 will lose shielding once it has suffered 10 points of damage to its Shields). Once the shielding
is disabled, the next new weapon system to fire on the ship will resolve hits and damage as if the ship is unshielded.
Damage carries over between turns as normal, and is not affected by Self-Repairing Traits.
The Shields themselves may recharge, however - this will be noted by a second number after a slash (e.g. a ship with Shields 10/D6
will lose shielding once it has suffered 10 points of damage, but will recover D6 damage done to its Shields at the end of each turn)
Shields do not regenerate once reduced to 0 damage remaining.
Whilst Shields are Operational, Thirdspace vessels are considered to have a hull score of 6. Once shielding is lost, they revert to their
normal hull score (this will be recorded as, for example, 6/5 - a hull score of 5, but an 'effective' hull score of 6 whilst Shields remain active).
Thirdspace Fighter:
The Thirdspace fighters are, despite their size, immensely powerful craft on a par with the corvettes and light cruisers of many species.
Not true spacecraft, these wierdly elegant vessels have no crew, but rather have an animal sentience of their own.
They are destructive and agressive servants of the One, and most often the first to be encountered.
Ship Special Rules:
Thirdspace Fighters have no crew quality score - in fact they have no crew at all!
As a result they cannot perform any special actions.
They will never Stand Down and Prepare to be Boarded!, and are too agile to be hit by Give Me Ramming Speed!
Class Thirdspace Fighter
In Service Primordial
CQ -
Troops -
Craft -
Speed 10
Turns SM
Hull 6/5
Special Rules Shields 5/1
Damage 35
Crew -
Weapon Exotic Matter Bolt
Range 5
Arc F
AD 4
Special Rules AP, Double Damage
I'm thinking either Skirmish or Raid Priority, personally I think the former.
35 hit points Damage Resistant plus the five shields translates to about 15 hit points in real terms....add in the shield benefits and that sits nicely in the bracket of Drazi Whateverbirds...which is not bad for a fighter!
Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions/Insults/Improper Offers/Analysis all welcome
) is pretty obscure) tend to just get left alone.
(the Pak'Ma'Ra just ignored them and carried on as usual even when the centauri got annoyed and shot loads of them etc 
