The Warmonger-Class Battle Tender

[AnotherDilbert]

M9 is TL15, I can't add advantages

Sorry, I was stuck in HG'17...

 

[Nelphine]

Ok, my attempt at the smallest ship with a large bay:

Blaster, TL15, 700/700 tons, Total Cost: 564.925Mcr

Captain + 2 Pilots + 3 Engineers + 1 Mechanic + 6 Gunners + 2 Sensor Operators + 1 Medic + 1 Officer
Crew required on parent ship: 0.4 Mechanics + 0.7 Admin

Sphere - 280 Hull Points, 140 base power, 38.5Mcr
Bonded Superdense Armour 15, 75.6 tons, 37.8Mcr
Radiation Shielding, 17.5Mcr
M-9 Drive, 63 tons, 630 power, 126Mcr
Power Plant (Fusion 15) 900, 45 tons, 90Mcr
Fuel: Operations, 2 weeks, 4.5 tons

Bridge w/ Holographic Controls: 20 tons, 4.375Mcr
Advanced Sensors, 5 tons, 6 power, 5.3Mcr
Enhanced Signal Processing, 2 tons, 2 power, 8Mcr
Core/70, 80Mcr
-Maneuvre/0, Intellect, Library
-Battle Network/1, 5 bandwidth, 5Mcr
-Evade/3, 25 bandwidth, 3Mcr
-Fire Control/5, 25 bandwidth, 10Mcr
-Point Defense/2, 15 bandwidth, 12Mcr
-Anti-Hijack/3, 15 bandwidth, 10Mcr (not normally run if point defense running)

Large Particle Beam Bay (Reduced Size x2), 400 tons, 80 power, 75Mcr
Particle Beam Barbette (Accurate, High Yield), 5 tons, 15 power, 12Mcr
Point Defense Laser Battery (Type III, Reduced Size), 18 tons, 30 power, 22mcr

Medical Bay, 4 tons, 1 power, 2Mcr
Workshop, 3 tons, 0.45Mcr
3 Single Stateroom (Captain, Officer, Medic), 12 tons, 1.5Mcr
7 Double Staterooms (Rest of Crew), 28 tons, 3.5Mcr
Common Areas, 10 tons, 1Mcr
Cargo Space, 4.9 tons

Ok, updated with cost. This seems.. super cheap compared to, say, the wasp?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Ok, updated with cost. This seems.. super cheap compared to, say, the wasp?

All that internal and external armor and EMP protection costs a lot. Let me see what it would be without that. MCr 436.9 with the internal armor and EMP protections removed. Just a hair more than MCr100 savings.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Updates complete. I ditched the biosphere idea as it just ate up tonnage with no reduction in supplies. I added internal armor and EMP protections, too.

In my own games, I rule that Biospheres offset 'supplies' to a degree. Basically, 100% biosphere support reduces supplies consumed per day by 50% -- but that is firmly in 'House Rule' territory. So 'Biosphere' has two effects: 1} lowers LS cost per month, 2} reduces tonnage per 'day of supplies'.

 

[Terry Mixon]

In my own games, I rule that Biospheres offset 'supplies' to a degree. Basically, 100% biosphere support reduces supplies consumed per day by 50% -- but that is firmly in 'House Rule' territory. So 'Biosphere' has two effects: 1} lowers LS cost per month, 2} reduces tonnage per 'day of supplies'.

I added the internal armor and EMP Hardening to the ship. Like was said, that added almost 1/4 to the cost of the 400-ton gunboat. Do they really make that much difference in combat? Seems like they should, but like biospheres they might not. None of the official ships seem to use them. I can't even find the rules for EMP Hardening.

 

[Nelphine]

All that internal and external armor and EMP protection costs a lot. Let me see what it would be without that. MCr 436.9 with the internal armor and EMP protections removed. Just a hair more than MCr100 savings.

My main reason for not including those is twofold:
Blasters is designed for long range, so no reason to defend against ion or laser weapons - if the enemy is in range, the blaster has probably already lost.
Blasters are meant to be fighters - 1 hit from a real weapon kills them, and anything shorter range they're meant to stay away from in the first place. But if 1 hit kills them, why bother with any extra protections to reduce criticals?

 

[Terry Mixon]

My main reason for not including those is twofold:
Blasters is designed for long range, so no reason to defend against ion or laser weapons - if the enemy is in range, the blaster has probably already lost.
Blasters are meant to be fighters - 1 hit from a real weapon kills them, and anything shorter range they're meant to stay away from in the first place. But if 1 hit kills them, why bother with any extra protections to reduce criticals?

I'm sure the crews love that.

 

[Nelphine]

I'm sure the crews love that.

LOL

i get what you mean, but my thought is.. do we pay for that extra, when.. 4 ships worth of extra means we have an entire extra ship (and therefore extra large bay)? that's going to help them survive far more.

Also, that works for even your reduced cost. 100 Mcr savings mean.. you have 5 ships with small bays and medium range.. i have 4 ships that are almost twice the size, with large bays and distant range? (and better fire control, you shouldn't use the advanced version on a ship with so few guns)

I feel like I've done something wrong on my pricing.

 

[Terry Mixon]

LOL

i get what you mean, but my thought is.. do we pay for that extra, when.. 4 ships worth of extra means we have an entire extra ship (and therefore extra large bay)? that's going to help them survive far more.

Also, that works for even your reduced cost. 100 Mcr savings mean.. you have 5 ships with small bays and medium range.. i have 4 ships that are almost twice the size, with large bays and distant range?

I feel like I've done something wrong on my pricing.

You should use the spreadsheet to do your construction. It makes things a lot easier. You can snag one of mine and repurpose it if need be.

 

[Terry Mixon]

LOL

i get what you mean, but my thought is.. do we pay for that extra, when.. 4 ships worth of extra means we have an entire extra ship (and therefore extra large bay)? that's going to help them survive far more.

Also, that works for even your reduced cost. 100 Mcr savings mean.. you have 5 ships with small bays and medium range.. i have 4 ships that are almost twice the size, with large bays and distant range? (and better fire control, you shouldn't use the advanced version on a ship with so few guns)

I feel like I've done something wrong on my pricing.

The cost is close, but there are some issues with your build. You might decide some of them are worth it, but I'll mention them anyway.

You're 4 power short of your full needs.
Fuel requirement for 2 weeks is 2.5 not 4.5, and the minimum is supposed to be 4 weeks.
Your computer is underpowered by 10 bandwidth.
A workshop is 6 tons, not 3.
You're undermanned by 4 people. You can't leave part of them on the mother ship. You need them with you.

 

[Nelphine]

The cost is close, but there are some issues with your build. You might decide some of them are worth it, but I'll mention them anyway.

You're 4 power short of your full needs.
Fuel requirement for 2 weeks is 2.5 not 4.5, and the minimum is supposed to be 4 weeks.
Your computer is underpowered by 10 bandwidth.
A workshop is 6 tons, not 3.
You're undermanned by 4 people. You can't leave part of them on the mother ship. You need them with you.

4 power short, yup, i'm ok with that
computer is missing 15, not 10, because anti-hijack is never on if point defense is on
i'm perfectly fine doing a half size workshop that only accomodates one person. i'll note that it only allows one person to get the bonus, not the normal two.
its a fighter, so i'm fine forcing the captain to be the 3rd pilot and the officer to be the 3rd sensor operator (or vice versa). other ships do similar styles of things where 1 or 2 people run numerous positions. i'm also fine with the mechanics/admins being calculated on the mothership, since the fractions will actually work out properly there - and as a fighter, its not supposed to be deployed without that mothership. however, for those who do get deployed without the proper mothership, that's fine, it just means the medic and the officer don't get single staterooms, so no change in tonnage to take those 2 extra crew (or more likely, the officer stays in single stateroom, and the 1 extra crew that joins covers both positions).

 

[Nelphine]

also, you really should use fire control/5 instead of advanced fire control for your wasp. its less bandwidth, cheaper, and nearly as good results (or better if you're only shooting one of your two weapons)

 

[Terry Mixon]

also, you really should use fire control/5 instead of advanced fire control for your wasp. its less bandwidth, cheaper, and nearly as good results (or better if you're only shooting one of your two weapons)

With four weapons, I’d only get a +1 with three and a +2 with one, as it is, all of them can have +3. That’s worth it for me. Maybe I should have both programs and that would allow for that option.

 

[Terry Mixon]

4 power short, yup, i'm ok with that
computer is missing 15, not 10, because anti-hijack is never on if point defense is on
i'm perfectly fine doing a half size workshop that only accomodates one person. i'll note that it only allows one person to get the bonus, not the normal two.
its a fighter, so i'm fine forcing the captain to be the 3rd pilot and the officer to be the 3rd sensor operator (or vice versa). other ships do similar styles of things where 1 or 2 people run numerous positions. i'm also fine with the mechanics/admins being calculated on the mothership, since the fractions will actually work out properly there - and as a fighter, its not supposed to be deployed without that mothership. however, for those who do get deployed without the proper mothership, that's fine, it just means the medic and the officer don't get single staterooms, so no change in tonnage to take those 2 extra crew (or more likely, the officer stays in single stateroom, and the 1 extra crew that joins covers both positions).

If it works for you, that’s cool.

 

[Shardan13]

Terry Mixon, I'm trying to figure out how you got the number of sensor ops for your Hadrian Class Battle-Rider (I'm looking at the stripped down version). I am keep getting a different number. I am getting 9 (50 000 / 7500 (rounded down) * 3 (since it's a military vessel)*0.5 (size efficiency which is optional)) and if we add your extra sensor ops stations we get a total of 14.

Also the description of the sensor station in High Guard 22 says that they are options for vessels of 7500 tons or less as larger vessels bridges are assumed to have already multiple sensor stations. I'm assuming in this instance is that your assumption is that the bridge holds only the number of stations equal to the default number of sensor ops. If that's is the case then the bridge should theoretically have between 9 to 18 sensor stations already.

 

[Nelphine]

With four weapons, I’d only get a +1 with three and a +2 with one, as it is, all of them can have +3. That’s worth it for me. Maybe I should have both programs and that would allow for that option.

toootally forgot that you'd have multiple since you use a small bay not a large one. you're right, massively. sorry!

 

[Terry Mixon]

toootally forgot that you'd have multiple since you use a small bay not a large one. you're right, massively. sorry!

No worries. I really am thinking about getting both programs for the Crossbow and Hadrian. +5 for the meson cannon and +3 for everything else sounds like a winner.

It sounds like a new version of the excel sheet will be needed to fix the sensor operator count and I’ll have to migrate them all anyway, so I’ll do that then.

 

[MasterGwydion]

You can have all of the programs, since storage space isn't a thing. Then, just select which programs are running in a given round. The only restriction on how many programs you can have is how much money you want to spend on them.

 

[Terry Mixon]

You can have all of the programs, since storage space isn't a thing. Then, just select which programs are running in a given round. The only restriction on how many programs you can have is how much money you want to spend on them.

I bet the Navy has their version of the programs to load. That won’t be an expense they have to worry about.

 

[Arkathan]

Terry Mixon, I'm trying to figure out how you got the number of sensor ops for your Hadrian Class Battle-Rider (I'm looking at the stripped down version). I am keep getting a different number. I am getting 9 (50 000 / 7500 (rounded down) * 3 (since it's a military vessel)*0.5 (size efficiency which is optional)) and if we add your extra sensor ops stations we get a total of 14.

Also the description of the sensor station in High Guard 22 says that they are options for vessels of 7500 tons or less as larger vessels bridges are assumed to have already multiple sensor stations. I'm assuming in this instance is that your assumption is that the bridge holds only the number of stations equal to the default number of sensor ops. If that's is the case then the bridge should theoretically have between 9 to 18 sensor stations already.

Why are you rounding down? That would suggest you do not need a medic until you have 120 crew.
Or a Mechanic until you have a ship of 2000/1000 tons.
For 50ktons, 4 and 12 is the number without extra sensor stations, which as, you point out is only supposed to be an option for 7500 tons and less.
The sensop is optional on small ships, but 7500 tons requires a capital ship pilot. Not small.