Bjorn the Barbarian
Mongoose
Argo,
Darn good explanation of the feats!
Darn good explanation of the feats!
The Veteran's Tavern (combat discussion)
- Thread starter Clovenhoof
- Start date
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
Full ACK. ^_^
So to recap, here is what I learned so far for fighter-type character builds:
Improved Initiative and Power Attack in conjunction can go a damn long way. Get your opponent when he is flat-footed at the beginning of combat and hammer him into the ground unsharpened.
If you can dish out Massive Damage on a regular basis, Cleave/Great Cleave goes along nicely with that. Cleave gives you single extra attacks on an irregular basis, while Great Cleave won't do you much good if you can't drop your foes with a single blow.
Though we did not address this feat yet, I suppose fleet-footed is a good supplement for this tactics. Be there sooner than your enemy expects. A 33% Movement increase is not shabby at all.
If you have sufficient Barbarian/Nomad/Pirate levels, I wouldn't bother about "Improved" feats whose main effect is to prevent Attacks of Opportunity. Keep moving, and your innate Improved Mobility will do the same job. You don't get +4 bonuses but you get to spend your feats for something else.
Leave feat-heavy ("MAD") special moves like Whirlwind Attack to the class that can afford it: the Soldier.
Other classes should, simply for the lack of feat slots, concentrate on either Power Attack or Combat Expertise feat chains.
Specializing in Mounted Combat is rarely worth it, except if you are positive that your campaign will revolve around exactly that.
Defending against Mounted Attacks is mainly a matter of tactics and equipment.
Similiarly, Archery is too feat-intensive in relation to the benefit; usually it's better to just close in and whack someone around the head.
Most special attacks break down against Large and larger creatures. Against these, it's much more important to make your Terror save so you can act at all. When you attack, simply try to make as much damage as possible, that usually works best. So in short, see to it that you have a sufficiently high Will save. If necessary, take Iron Will.
So to recap, here is what I learned so far for fighter-type character builds:
Improved Initiative and Power Attack in conjunction can go a damn long way. Get your opponent when he is flat-footed at the beginning of combat and hammer him into the ground unsharpened.
If you can dish out Massive Damage on a regular basis, Cleave/Great Cleave goes along nicely with that. Cleave gives you single extra attacks on an irregular basis, while Great Cleave won't do you much good if you can't drop your foes with a single blow.
Though we did not address this feat yet, I suppose fleet-footed is a good supplement for this tactics. Be there sooner than your enemy expects. A 33% Movement increase is not shabby at all.
If you have sufficient Barbarian/Nomad/Pirate levels, I wouldn't bother about "Improved" feats whose main effect is to prevent Attacks of Opportunity. Keep moving, and your innate Improved Mobility will do the same job. You don't get +4 bonuses but you get to spend your feats for something else.
Leave feat-heavy ("MAD") special moves like Whirlwind Attack to the class that can afford it: the Soldier.
Other classes should, simply for the lack of feat slots, concentrate on either Power Attack or Combat Expertise feat chains.
Specializing in Mounted Combat is rarely worth it, except if you are positive that your campaign will revolve around exactly that.
Defending against Mounted Attacks is mainly a matter of tactics and equipment.
Similiarly, Archery is too feat-intensive in relation to the benefit; usually it's better to just close in and whack someone around the head.
Most special attacks break down against Large and larger creatures. Against these, it's much more important to make your Terror save so you can act at all. When you attack, simply try to make as much damage as possible, that usually works best. So in short, see to it that you have a sufficiently high Will save. If necessary, take Iron Will.
Valgrim Bragisson
Mongoose
I've just written up a Borderer/Soldier as a pure finnese fighter. I'm fully embracing AoOs for the first time with this character. Between Combat Reflexes and Web of Death, he will eventually have 10+ AoOs per round!
(1 base, +8 DEX, +1 each time he's attacked)
Also, Combat Reflexes has NO PREREQUISITS listed in the AE.
Is this all as overpowered and broken as it sounds?
What house rules have people come up with to handle this?
MP
(1 base, +8 DEX, +1 each time he's attacked)
Also, Combat Reflexes has NO PREREQUISITS listed in the AE.
Is this all as overpowered and broken as it sounds?
What house rules have people come up with to handle this?
MP
I think that Web of Death does not give more AoO's to your character, just another possibility to use AoO's. And don't forget the fact that you can't make "regular" AoO's when you are in Total Defence (you don't threaten areas around you anymore). BTW, your character has a +8 Dex modifier ? 26 in Dex ? What Level/Race is he ?Valgrim Bragisson said:
Yeah, I'm not sure what you mean. Your character will get an AoO against every opponent who attacks him (regardless of his Dex score) when he is using total defence. While this can definitely be very powerful indeed in certain situations (like when you're defending a bridge against 100 picts :wink: ), it's a tactic that can easily be circumvented (if your enemies just ignore you while they slaughter your friends, or just step back and pepper you with missiles, you can do nothing).Valgrim Bragisson said:
And as Axerules points out, you can't make "normal" AoO's when in total defence. This means that your foes can actually just run straight past you, and as long as they don't attack you, you can't touch 'em (that bridge better be only 5' wide!).
No one has actually ever used Web of Death in my game, but at least on paper it doesn't look like an overpowered feat to me. Also, the feat doesn't say so, but I think it's probably meant to be useable only when fighting with the weapon for which you have Weapon Focus (WF is a prerequisite for Web of Death).
I realised that my post above was only in response to whether Web of Death was overpowered... and perhaps that wasn't really what you were asking.
When not using total defence, your character will be able to dish out 9 AoO per round if he has a +8 Dex bonus. While that is of course a huge amount of attacks, you will only be able to use them when you get the opportunity, so to speak. :wink: If those picts are trying to just run past you on that bridge, you will be a slaughter-machine. But if your foes simply attack you normally, you gain no benefit.
I definitely don't consider Combat Reflexes to be an overpowered feat.
When not using total defence, your character will be able to dish out 9 AoO per round if he has a +8 Dex bonus. While that is of course a huge amount of attacks, you will only be able to use them when you get the opportunity, so to speak. :wink: If those picts are trying to just run past you on that bridge, you will be a slaughter-machine. But if your foes simply attack you normally, you gain no benefit.
I definitely don't consider Combat Reflexes to be an overpowered feat.
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
If you start out with Dex 20 (18 +2racial), you can get Dex26 by level 14; or level 18 if you start with Dex 18, provided you only ever push Dex (and his damage will probably not be impressive).
As it has already been pointed out, the AoOs you make in your web of death mode count against your total allowance of AoOs in that round. So if you have, say Dex 20, you get 6 AoOs (1 + 5 Dex), and can use Web of Death 6 times per round.
I'm still not sure what to make of the Weapon Focus prereq. It is in the rules but I am not sure it should be there. Somehow I suspect it is only a prereq to bar the Barbarian from taking the feat (for whatever reasons).
Feats that only work with one type of weapon always start with "Select one weapon" or "Choose one type of weapon". Also, their description says you can select this feat multiple times for additional weapons. You have none of this in the WoD description, so I think it's supposed to work with any weapon. Which, however, makes the Weapon Focus prereq rather moot (how does a short sword focus help to swing around a bardiche?), so I am thinking of removing that prereq. Which in turn should mean a Barb can take it after all.
I agree that this feat isn't overpowered, due to the Total Defense restriction and that the AoO is resolved _after_ the triggering attack.
Tactical Use: enemies will fall for Web of Death at the beginning of a combat. They can't mind-read so the first attackers will be very surprised at the counterattacks. Depending on their perception and intelligence, it will take them a couple of rounds to realize what hits them. They also never know how often you can counterattack (and with high Dex, it is very unlikely they'll try to run you out of AoOs). Once they have realized attacking you in melee is a bad idea, they will have to think of something else.
Whatever happens, the Web of Death trick buys you time. It's up to you to make use of it. If the enemy decides to ignore you and run past you, cancel the Total Defense and make all these ugly AoOs instead. If they decide to stay away and attack you with ranged weapons, you can charge them or whatever. Keep in mind that switching weapons takes time.
If they stay away like 50 ft with melee fighters in front to protect the archers behind... then congratulations, you are single-handedly keeping at attacking force at bay. You are a One Man Army!
As it has already been pointed out, the AoOs you make in your web of death mode count against your total allowance of AoOs in that round. So if you have, say Dex 20, you get 6 AoOs (1 + 5 Dex), and can use Web of Death 6 times per round.
I'm still not sure what to make of the Weapon Focus prereq. It is in the rules but I am not sure it should be there. Somehow I suspect it is only a prereq to bar the Barbarian from taking the feat (for whatever reasons).
Feats that only work with one type of weapon always start with "Select one weapon" or "Choose one type of weapon". Also, their description says you can select this feat multiple times for additional weapons. You have none of this in the WoD description, so I think it's supposed to work with any weapon. Which, however, makes the Weapon Focus prereq rather moot (how does a short sword focus help to swing around a bardiche?), so I am thinking of removing that prereq. Which in turn should mean a Barb can take it after all.
I agree that this feat isn't overpowered, due to the Total Defense restriction and that the AoO is resolved _after_ the triggering attack.
Tactical Use: enemies will fall for Web of Death at the beginning of a combat. They can't mind-read so the first attackers will be very surprised at the counterattacks. Depending on their perception and intelligence, it will take them a couple of rounds to realize what hits them. They also never know how often you can counterattack (and with high Dex, it is very unlikely they'll try to run you out of AoOs). Once they have realized attacking you in melee is a bad idea, they will have to think of something else.
Whatever happens, the Web of Death trick buys you time. It's up to you to make use of it. If the enemy decides to ignore you and run past you, cancel the Total Defense and make all these ugly AoOs instead. If they decide to stay away and attack you with ranged weapons, you can charge them or whatever. Keep in mind that switching weapons takes time.
If they stay away like 50 ft with melee fighters in front to protect the archers behind... then congratulations, you are single-handedly keeping at attacking force at bay. You are a One Man Army!
Valgrim Bragisson
Mongoose
Thanks Everybody! I completely misread Web of Death. I missed the part about it only being useable with Total Defense. I was also under the mistaken impression the AoO granted by it were IN ADDITION to your normal ones. As it is, WoD isn't overpowered at all.
The lack of prerequs for Combat Reflexes still seems a bit odd. It's kinda powerful to come that easy. Then again, not everybody's built to be a DEX god like my new guy!
I'm starting him at 3rd lvl, and he's Hyborian. DEX 18 now, Dex 26 by 20th. Starting with Weapon Focus in Arming Sword and Poniard. I like to come up with these 20 leval life plans for new characters. Even though I know few, if any, will ever make it that far!
MP
The lack of prerequs for Combat Reflexes still seems a bit odd. It's kinda powerful to come that easy. Then again, not everybody's built to be a DEX god like my new guy!
I'm starting him at 3rd lvl, and he's Hyborian. DEX 18 now, Dex 26 by 20th. Starting with Weapon Focus in Arming Sword and Poniard. I like to come up with these 20 leval life plans for new characters. Even though I know few, if any, will ever make it that far!
MP
If I were to play a finesse-fighting, two-weapon wielding Soldier, I'd probably specialize in two shortswords instead of arming sword+poniard. You will save a lot of feats only buying the Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization/Improved Critical stuff once. Also, you could always throw in a level or three of Thief for a little sneak attack if you want to be really nasty.Valgrim Bragisson said:
That could be another topic for this thread; which weapons do people preferably combine for two-weapon fighting?
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
1. addendum/correction to my previous statement:
I completely forgot the feat description: "you whirl your weapon around" or something. Which means your enemies should realize there's something in the bush. But they probably will not exactly know what, until the first few receive their beating.
2. Combat Reflexes has, in Conan, effectively a Dex 12+ prereq. Its payoff gets better as higher your Dex gets, so there's not really need for any other prereq. Also keep in mind that AoOs are rather limited and unrealiable; in many rounds you won't get a single AoO, let alone 5 or whatever.
Experience teaches us that Combat Reflexes work best with a Reach weapon: You get an AoO against anyone who closes in on you. However, if they survive that AoO, they are right next to you, and most Reach weapons (except Staff) cannot attack adjacent squares.
3. If you plan to take any weapon-specific feats (like Focus, Specialization, Improved Crit etc.) with a Dual Wielder, by all means go for Dual Shortswords, which of course can also be finessed. It's the best Light weapon, you don't get any penalties but reap double benefit from every feat you get. However, note that you cannot benefit from Power Attack with light weapons as per RAW! However, your Str will probably not that high anyway.
If you don't plan to take any weapon-specific feats, you can also take Arming Sword and Shortsword (if you are a Finesse fighter), or Broadsword and Shortsword (if you are not a Finesse fighter), or War Sword and Shortsword (if you are a Barbarian 7+ or buy the proficiency).
If you can't afford swords, you can just as well take two Axes, or Axe and Battleaxe.
4. A Dual Wielder like this, and using the standard rules, can wreak havoc on unarmored foes since you get the double amount of attacks. Overcoming DR is a problem though, so you'll have to rely on Finesse against these opponents, which against means you depend on lucky rolls.
[Note that in my game, I allow any Dual Wielder a special attack called Two Weapon Strike: both attacks are rolled simultaneously and the damage is added for purposes of overcoming DR. This exists as feat in some splat book, but I don't require my players to take that feat to pull off the stunt.]
I completely forgot the feat description: "you whirl your weapon around" or something. Which means your enemies should realize there's something in the bush. But they probably will not exactly know what, until the first few receive their beating.
2. Combat Reflexes has, in Conan, effectively a Dex 12+ prereq. Its payoff gets better as higher your Dex gets, so there's not really need for any other prereq. Also keep in mind that AoOs are rather limited and unrealiable; in many rounds you won't get a single AoO, let alone 5 or whatever.
Experience teaches us that Combat Reflexes work best with a Reach weapon: You get an AoO against anyone who closes in on you. However, if they survive that AoO, they are right next to you, and most Reach weapons (except Staff) cannot attack adjacent squares.
3. If you plan to take any weapon-specific feats (like Focus, Specialization, Improved Crit etc.) with a Dual Wielder, by all means go for Dual Shortswords, which of course can also be finessed. It's the best Light weapon, you don't get any penalties but reap double benefit from every feat you get. However, note that you cannot benefit from Power Attack with light weapons as per RAW! However, your Str will probably not that high anyway.
If you don't plan to take any weapon-specific feats, you can also take Arming Sword and Shortsword (if you are a Finesse fighter), or Broadsword and Shortsword (if you are not a Finesse fighter), or War Sword and Shortsword (if you are a Barbarian 7+ or buy the proficiency).
If you can't afford swords, you can just as well take two Axes, or Axe and Battleaxe.
4. A Dual Wielder like this, and using the standard rules, can wreak havoc on unarmored foes since you get the double amount of attacks. Overcoming DR is a problem though, so you'll have to rely on Finesse against these opponents, which against means you depend on lucky rolls.
[Note that in my game, I allow any Dual Wielder a special attack called Two Weapon Strike: both attacks are rolled simultaneously and the damage is added for purposes of overcoming DR. This exists as feat in some splat book, but I don't require my players to take that feat to pull off the stunt.]
Valgrim Bragisson
Mongoose
Clovenhoof and Trodax:
I'm looking at twin Short Swords too, to save feat slots. My original choice was a matter of "flavor". I saw him as a kind of Musketeer, with Arming Sword and Poniard representing Rapier and Main Gauche, and an Arbalest in place of the Musket (He has the Nemedian Arbelester combat style).
Twin shorties will give me the same benefits for half the feats, so that's the way I'll go.
I'm also not taking Web of Death. Greater Combat Reflexes is MUCH better! Any failed attacks aginst you provoke AoOs! :twisted: It's in Hyboria's Fallen. With the feats I save, I'll take Ranged Finnesse, Skill Focus(Survival), and One With Nature. He is a Borderer, after all.
MP
I'm looking at twin Short Swords too, to save feat slots. My original choice was a matter of "flavor". I saw him as a kind of Musketeer, with Arming Sword and Poniard representing Rapier and Main Gauche, and an Arbalest in place of the Musket (He has the Nemedian Arbelester combat style).
Twin shorties will give me the same benefits for half the feats, so that's the way I'll go.
I'm also not taking Web of Death. Greater Combat Reflexes is MUCH better! Any failed attacks aginst you provoke AoOs! :twisted: It's in Hyboria's Fallen. With the feats I save, I'll take Ranged Finnesse, Skill Focus(Survival), and One With Nature. He is a Borderer, after all.
MP
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
Sounds well and good. Is there an "Improved Combat Reflexes" in between, or what are the prereqs?
If you want to hear my opinion: don't take Ranged Finesse or any Skill Focus. Survival DCs are usually not that problematic anyway, and you get improved tracking abilities by class.
The Ranged Finesse feat is cumbersome and ineffective, with all these limitations. You lose a complete, full round just to make ONE single finesse attack in the following round, and that ONLY if the target has not moved more than 30ft but is within 30ft from you. I'm amazed they didn't make it a prerequisite that the target be tied to a post.
In short, the feat is bullshit.
It would have made more sense to keep "ranged finesse" analogous to melee finesse, i.e. you hit a chink in the armour when your attack roll exceeds the target's defence plus DR rating. Ranged weapons are ineffective enough as they are.
And especially if you want an Arbalest as ranged weapon (I'd advise against that too, due to reload times), you have good Armour Piercing anyway so you don't really need to finesse that bullet.
Can't say anything about the One With Nature feat.
But I'd invest the other two slots in something else. There are plenty of useful feats. ^^
Valgrim Bragisson
Mongoose
There is no Improved Combat Reflexes. The prerequs for Greater Combat Reflexes are Combat Reflexes, DEX 17+, Dodge, and BAB 8+.
I'll take Sidewinder(+2 damage when flanking, no prereqs) in place of Ranged Finnesse. I took the Arbalast to give my non-Aquilonian Hyborian a ranged weapon other than the lowly Hunting Bow. He also uses a sling and a pair of throwing axes. the Combat Style gives Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot, which can be used with any ranged weapon, as well as Imp. Crit (Arbalest). So its useful. One With Nature gives a bunch of +4 bonuses to survival related rolls in a particular environment type, which stacks nicely with Favored Terrain. And you never take any movement penalties for difficult terrain in that environment. Skill Focus(Survival) is a Prereq.
MP
I'll take Sidewinder(+2 damage when flanking, no prereqs) in place of Ranged Finnesse. I took the Arbalast to give my non-Aquilonian Hyborian a ranged weapon other than the lowly Hunting Bow. He also uses a sling and a pair of throwing axes. the Combat Style gives Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot, which can be used with any ranged weapon, as well as Imp. Crit (Arbalest). So its useful. One With Nature gives a bunch of +4 bonuses to survival related rolls in a particular environment type, which stacks nicely with Favored Terrain. And you never take any movement penalties for difficult terrain in that environment. Skill Focus(Survival) is a Prereq.
MP
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
*bump*
The Sling makes an excellent supplementary ranged weapon for any melee fighter. It is cheap, it doesn't take up space, does decent base damage, and what's maybe most important, it allows you to add your STR modifier to damage.
The drawbacks are that it requires an action to reload and has a short range increment. But still! Your main focus will be on melee combat, and on low levels you'll only get one attack per round anyway.
At short range, a stationary Str 18 fighter can have the same effect with a 1sp Sling as with a 83sp Hunting Bow.
You can get out at least one shot against an approaching opponent, which may be enough to drop him at low levels.
Moreover, the sling requires only one hand to shoot, so you can hold a shield or a melee weapon in your other hand. It's probably reasonable to assume you need two hands to reload, but maybe you can even reload with one hand if you are very dexterous. (The rules don't say anything about this).
Remember that it's always your choice which hand is your "off hand", and you can even switch hand priorities every round.
Feats: it's hardly worth it investing any feats specifically for ranged combat, as discussed earlier in this thread. But if you have the Quick Draw feat, that reduces the reloading to a Free Action. After all, you just need to put a bullet in the sling, not crank up a crossbow.
Enjoy.
The Sling makes an excellent supplementary ranged weapon for any melee fighter. It is cheap, it doesn't take up space, does decent base damage, and what's maybe most important, it allows you to add your STR modifier to damage.
The drawbacks are that it requires an action to reload and has a short range increment. But still! Your main focus will be on melee combat, and on low levels you'll only get one attack per round anyway.
At short range, a stationary Str 18 fighter can have the same effect with a 1sp Sling as with a 83sp Hunting Bow.
You can get out at least one shot against an approaching opponent, which may be enough to drop him at low levels.
Moreover, the sling requires only one hand to shoot, so you can hold a shield or a melee weapon in your other hand. It's probably reasonable to assume you need two hands to reload, but maybe you can even reload with one hand if you are very dexterous. (The rules don't say anything about this).
Remember that it's always your choice which hand is your "off hand", and you can even switch hand priorities every round.
Feats: it's hardly worth it investing any feats specifically for ranged combat, as discussed earlier in this thread. But if you have the Quick Draw feat, that reduces the reloading to a Free Action. After all, you just need to put a bullet in the sling, not crank up a crossbow.
Enjoy.
Valgrim Bragisson
Mongoose
Also, the Sling is concealable, and does a x3 crit.
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
Very true.
And: if you ever run out of leaden bullets, simply pick up a rock from the ground. Stones are less dense than lead, of course, but a rock hurled from a sling should still do about d6 damage.
Talking about inconspicious weapons:
The Staff
I have mentioned it earlier in this thread: the Staff is a weapon that you shouldn't overlook. In the standard Conan armory, it is the only weapon able to threaten at 5ft and 10ft. (But maybe you have imported the Spiked Chain from D&D.)
What this means in combat is that any opponent closing in on you provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Of course, you can take only one AoO per round, but you can chose when to take it, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the _first_ opponent approaching you.
With the Combat Reflexes feat and high Dex, you should indeed be able to attack pretty much everyone getting near you.
Next, the Staff is a Finesse weapon. It has a poor AP score so you're unlikely to penetrate Heavy Armour with regular attacks, but with a good roll you can bypass the armour entirely.
The base damage and crit are not impressive, granted, but since you get 1.5x Str on your attacks (two-handed weapon), you should be able to deliver a halfway decent amount of damage, especially with successful Finesse.
Let's compare two Str 18 warriors, one with Bardiche (RAW, not the nerfed version I use), one with Staff, with high Attack bonus, versus Heavy Armour. We'll see that a highly skilled warrior will be able to do more damage with a Staff than with a Bardiche against the most heavily armoured opponents:
Bardiche: AP5+4=9 -> penetrates most armour, but not Plate Armour or many Heavy Armour combinations with helmet.
Average damage 11+6=17 minus DR10 = 7 damage
Staff: Finesse attack has to beat Defense by 10. If successful:
Average damage 5+6=11, no DR --> 11 damage
Granted, that example is a bit loaded; I chose the STR and DR so that the Bardiche would not penetrate, and didn't account for Power Attack, but assumed that the Staff would make his Finesse roll. Still, it goes to show that sometimes, even a cheap Simple weapon can be put to good use. ^^
However, I'd also like to talk about Combat Reflexes in general.
How useful do you deem this feat? I don't think you normally use Reach weapons a lot, because except for the Staff they don't allow you to threaten at 5'. And with a regular 5' weapon, your opponents won't usually provoke so many AoOs from you.
What do you think?
And: if you ever run out of leaden bullets, simply pick up a rock from the ground. Stones are less dense than lead, of course, but a rock hurled from a sling should still do about d6 damage.
Talking about inconspicious weapons:
The Staff
I have mentioned it earlier in this thread: the Staff is a weapon that you shouldn't overlook. In the standard Conan armory, it is the only weapon able to threaten at 5ft and 10ft. (But maybe you have imported the Spiked Chain from D&D.)
What this means in combat is that any opponent closing in on you provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Of course, you can take only one AoO per round, but you can chose when to take it, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the _first_ opponent approaching you.
With the Combat Reflexes feat and high Dex, you should indeed be able to attack pretty much everyone getting near you.
Next, the Staff is a Finesse weapon. It has a poor AP score so you're unlikely to penetrate Heavy Armour with regular attacks, but with a good roll you can bypass the armour entirely.
The base damage and crit are not impressive, granted, but since you get 1.5x Str on your attacks (two-handed weapon), you should be able to deliver a halfway decent amount of damage, especially with successful Finesse.
Let's compare two Str 18 warriors, one with Bardiche (RAW, not the nerfed version I use), one with Staff, with high Attack bonus, versus Heavy Armour. We'll see that a highly skilled warrior will be able to do more damage with a Staff than with a Bardiche against the most heavily armoured opponents:
Bardiche: AP5+4=9 -> penetrates most armour, but not Plate Armour or many Heavy Armour combinations with helmet.
Average damage 11+6=17 minus DR10 = 7 damage
Staff: Finesse attack has to beat Defense by 10. If successful:
Average damage 5+6=11, no DR --> 11 damage
Granted, that example is a bit loaded; I chose the STR and DR so that the Bardiche would not penetrate, and didn't account for Power Attack, but assumed that the Staff would make his Finesse roll. Still, it goes to show that sometimes, even a cheap Simple weapon can be put to good use. ^^
However, I'd also like to talk about Combat Reflexes in general.
How useful do you deem this feat? I don't think you normally use Reach weapons a lot, because except for the Staff they don't allow you to threaten at 5'. And with a regular 5' weapon, your opponents won't usually provoke so many AoOs from you.
What do you think?
Here's a cheap trick:
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder.
Ready an action to hit the lance as it comes into reach (the lance can be sundered before it hits you, the wielder has reach, but if he can reach you, you can sunder his weapon) do at least 13 points of damage (lance is 1 inch thick wood, 5 hardness, 8 HP) and then with greater sunder you get a free cleaving attack into the rider as he goes by holding a broken stick.
Or, simply do the amazingly cheap "ready counter-charge!" Make a DC 15 tumble check and you slide inside the "bubble" of the lance and get to smash face while the poor knight is unable to get his normal charge attack since you're no longer in reach. It's nasty, cheap, and by-the-book okay. Mindlessly ballsy and stupid if you miss that tumble check (hey -2 defense!) but if you're got leaping charge (BAB +6, 1 rank jump) you get two swings at +0 and he get nothing.
Remember though: this tactic is to be used for barbarians and nutjobs: it's seriously out of character for the reserved duelest to charge the lance coming at him... well, moderately out of character at least.
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder.
Ready an action to hit the lance as it comes into reach (the lance can be sundered before it hits you, the wielder has reach, but if he can reach you, you can sunder his weapon) do at least 13 points of damage (lance is 1 inch thick wood, 5 hardness, 8 HP) and then with greater sunder you get a free cleaving attack into the rider as he goes by holding a broken stick.
Or, simply do the amazingly cheap "ready counter-charge!" Make a DC 15 tumble check and you slide inside the "bubble" of the lance and get to smash face while the poor knight is unable to get his normal charge attack since you're no longer in reach. It's nasty, cheap, and by-the-book okay. Mindlessly ballsy and stupid if you miss that tumble check (hey -2 defense!) but if you're got leaping charge (BAB +6, 1 rank jump) you get two swings at +0 and he get nothing.
Remember though: this tactic is to be used for barbarians and nutjobs: it's seriously out of character for the reserved duelest to charge the lance coming at him... well, moderately out of character at least.
One other note: If your Will saves are low: take Faith. It costs NOTHING (okay, a few silver a month...) and most of the dieties give Faith, often without restrictions on actions. It's a free +2 to all Will saves for a effectively non-existant sum of money (usually 3 SP/level/month... Ooooh, 30 SP a month for a 10th level character... wait, that short sword you just looted, hey that'll cover it.)
Just a few munchkin tricks we've found from our party.
Just a few munchkin tricks we've found from our party.
This is debatable. Indeed, I've seen multi-page threads devoted only to the issue of resolving attacks between characters with different reaches! By a strict reading of the RAW you cannot make an attack against an opponent you do not threaten. The rules do not map such fine detail as what space his lance occupies. However your ruling is nevertheless a common house rule, one that appeals to that nebulous ideal known as common sense.bjorntfh said:
This, however, is unequivocally not by-the-book ok. For two reasons.
First reason:
Using tumble slows your movement for the round - thus you can't charge.SRD said:
Second reason:
You can only ready a standard action - thus you can't charge. Yes there is an option for a "partial charge" that only takes a standard action. HoweverSRD said:
and using the ready action does not "restrict" you to only a standard action on your turn. You still had the option of taking a move action when it was your turn even if you chose to forfit it.SRD said:
Oh, and even if your "counter-charge" was rules-legal the horse would still get to make his charge attack against you when you moved into his threatened area.
The best way to foil a charge is to either ready a reach weapon against the charge or else to ready a move action to move out of the way along a perpendicular path after the attacker has already moved 10 feet - a charge must be in a straight line so he will be commited to his line of movement once he has moved 10 feet and you will do the "evasive roll" manuver to one side.
Later.
Combat Reflexes is a great feat. However it requires a build that is able to make at least some use of it (such as a reach weapon) and, more importantly, it requires a shift in tactical thinking to accomidate a different kind of fighting style.Clovenhoof said:
Even if you don't sepcalize in AoO's it is still a good general-purpose feat to pick up if you have the spare feat slots (like for a high-level soldier).
AoO's are really great for area denial and other griefing tactics. They are at their munchkin best when combined with techniques that generate AoO's such as Improved Trip, Web of Death, Cat's Parry and so forth.
Also, on the subject of Staffs. There is a reason sorcorers carry staffs. When their opponent moves within their reach they generate an AoO. The sorcorer can then use a free action on his AoO to Defensive Blast the heck outta the attacker. Or if he has the Adept feat he can cast a spell as a free action instead. Imagine a Khitan scholar with a Staff of Death and Adept for the necromancy school. You move in his reach and he uses Adept to cast death touch as a free action and delivers it with the Staff of Death! 8)
Later.
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