The Third Imperium - eBook & Pre-Order
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Which version of T5? Every edition has changed things - the original version released to those of us that pre-ordered was different to what came out of the kickstarter, which has since been revised twice 
Ok, I am kidding
Like I've said, I like your work. Will it be a kickstarter or a pre-order deal or has the decision yet to be made (and does this mean you got a sneak peek at the new Robots book?)
Ok, I am kidding
Like I've said, I like your work. Will it be a kickstarter or a pre-order deal or has the decision yet to be made (and does this mean you got a sneak peek at the new Robots book?)
paltrysum
Emperor Mongoose
Sigtrygg said:Which version of T5? Every edition has changed things - the original version released to those of us that pre-ordered was different to what came out of the kickstarter, which has since been revised twice
Ok, I am kidding
Like I've said, I like your work. Will it be a kickstarter or a pre-order deal or has the decision yet to be made (and does this mean you got a sneak peek at the new Robots book?)
Should be the latest version of T5, but I'd have to double check.
Thanks very much for the kind words... and the critiques! I appreciate both. Not a Kickstarter; those are for people like Martin who can generate significant collections of content in relatively brief periods of time. I'd love to do one some day, but this darn day job keeps me from really diving into something that big. Still, I could imagine a nice belt mining boxed set as a KS. I wonder if work would let me take a sabbatical.
And yes, I have had a sneak peak of Geir's Robot Handbook and I love it! Can't wait to see it released. In my humble opinion it's the best treatment robots have had in the game.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The thing about the meson gun bay weapon system divergence to advanced technologies never made sense, because it was part of long established canon.
If the argument was that you couldn't build them smaller than three kilotonnes, then you have some basis for the decision, but you'd also have to remove meson sleds, also part of long established canon.
It wasn't something like warp drives or quadruple turrets, which seem a rather recent introduction, and may or may not fit the Third Imperium setting.
If the argument was that you couldn't build them smaller than three kilotonnes, then you have some basis for the decision, but you'd also have to remove meson sleds, also part of long established canon.
It wasn't something like warp drives or quadruple turrets, which seem a rather recent introduction, and may or may not fit the Third Imperium setting.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Sigtrygg said:
He didn't say he didn't basic research. He said he tried to be comprehensive but may have missed a few things. You know - admitted being human...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Is there a reason you are trying to stir up trouble? I like his work.
It is basic research - such as how the Sword Worlds were settled (but then the Sword Worlds have been retconned a few times now)
to me basic research for a Third Imperium based supplement would consist of getting the FFE cds and reading all of it. Then use pdf search function for key words as I am going. Or if unsure ask someone.
Yes errors will be made, but the secret squirrel squad should have picked up on these if they ever do the job people suggest they do.
I'm not against new stuff, just like wafer tech which has yet to be fully integrated into the MgT Third Imperium setting.
It is basic research - such as how the Sword Worlds were settled (but then the Sword Worlds have been retconned a few times now)
to me basic research for a Third Imperium based supplement would consist of getting the FFE cds and reading all of it. Then use pdf search function for key words as I am going. Or if unsure ask someone.
Yes errors will be made, but the secret squirrel squad should have picked up on these if they ever do the job people suggest they do.
I'm not against new stuff, just like wafer tech which has yet to be fully integrated into the MgT Third Imperium setting.
Page 33:
"Lift infantry regiments or ‘Huscarles’ are the private armies of the Imperial nobility".
Page 26:
"Two subsets of infantry are lift infantry and jump troops. Lift infantry are soldiers in gravitic vehicles. Jump troops are dropped from orbit in specialised pods or with the aid of an ablative shield to plunge safely through atmosphere".
Lift Infantry and huscarles are not synonymous in any OTU source before this one and clearly it is hardly possible for every one of the the many, many, many regiments of troops in grav vehicles you would have in even one single subsector to be a huscarl unit belonging to an imperial noble.
Just because the first Imperial Army regiment to be detailed in Traveller also happens to be a huscarl unit does not mean that every lift infantry regiment literally belongs to a noble as there are simply not enough nobles in the Imperium.
Huscarles - particularly regiments of huscarles - are clearly meant to be an exception rather than the rule.
The notion that units of TL5 and TL15 can co-exist in any army at the brigade level is also just absurd tactically and above all logistically.
Previous sources dealt with this by distinguishing between an Imperial Army which was uniformly armed with TL14-15 gauss weapons, combat armour, grav AFVs and APCs etc etc and the separate planetary defence forces which would be armed at the TL of their planet.
The idea that you can take any old TL5 regiment armed with bolt action rifles, stick them on a starship, retrain them to use gauss and fusion weapons and combat armour and to drive grav vehicles, use modern comms and all the rest and then after a campaign take all that gear away from them and send them back to defend the homeworld with their trusty old bolt action rifles again just doesn't work.
Yes RW imperial armies would incorporate lower tech native auxiliaries on occasion - you can see naked German mercenaries with wooden clubs fighting alongside Roman legionaries on Trajan's column and the British army that invaded Zululand included a few local allies armed much like their Zulu enemies - but there is a huge difference between integrating TL0 auxiliaries in a TL1 or even TL4 army and incorporating TL5 troops in a TL14 one.
"Lift infantry regiments or ‘Huscarles’ are the private armies of the Imperial nobility".
Page 26:
"Two subsets of infantry are lift infantry and jump troops. Lift infantry are soldiers in gravitic vehicles. Jump troops are dropped from orbit in specialised pods or with the aid of an ablative shield to plunge safely through atmosphere".
Lift Infantry and huscarles are not synonymous in any OTU source before this one and clearly it is hardly possible for every one of the the many, many, many regiments of troops in grav vehicles you would have in even one single subsector to be a huscarl unit belonging to an imperial noble.
Just because the first Imperial Army regiment to be detailed in Traveller also happens to be a huscarl unit does not mean that every lift infantry regiment literally belongs to a noble as there are simply not enough nobles in the Imperium.
Huscarles - particularly regiments of huscarles - are clearly meant to be an exception rather than the rule.
The notion that units of TL5 and TL15 can co-exist in any army at the brigade level is also just absurd tactically and above all logistically.
Previous sources dealt with this by distinguishing between an Imperial Army which was uniformly armed with TL14-15 gauss weapons, combat armour, grav AFVs and APCs etc etc and the separate planetary defence forces which would be armed at the TL of their planet.
The idea that you can take any old TL5 regiment armed with bolt action rifles, stick them on a starship, retrain them to use gauss and fusion weapons and combat armour and to drive grav vehicles, use modern comms and all the rest and then after a campaign take all that gear away from them and send them back to defend the homeworld with their trusty old bolt action rifles again just doesn't work.
Yes RW imperial armies would incorporate lower tech native auxiliaries on occasion - you can see naked German mercenaries with wooden clubs fighting alongside Roman legionaries on Trajan's column and the British army that invaded Zululand included a few local allies armed much like their Zulu enemies - but there is a huge difference between integrating TL0 auxiliaries in a TL1 or even TL4 army and incorporating TL5 troops in a TL14 one.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
There are two sources for Imperial Army structure - FFW and I:E. All Imperial Army units in FFW are TL14 or 15 with 15 being the majority.
Lift infantry and armoured lift infantry are distinct from the DoR huscarls (who originally began as a Marine unit not an Army unit). The Imperial Planetary Army units range from TL8 to TL15.
I:E has the majority of IA units as TL13 or 14 but there are some 12 and 11 - these are likely to be drafted 'local' troops rather than regulars
Next we know the Imperial Army is one of the three key services of the Imperium thanks to LBB:6 Scouts.
Lift infantry and armoured lift infantry are distinct from the DoR huscarls (who originally began as a Marine unit not an Army unit). The Imperial Planetary Army units range from TL8 to TL15.
I:E has the majority of IA units as TL13 or 14 but there are some 12 and 11 - these are likely to be drafted 'local' troops rather than regulars
Next we know the Imperial Army is one of the three key services of the Imperium thanks to LBB:6 Scouts.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Sounds like something interesting to dissect.
While the Army usually doesn't get much of my attention, as I recall Huscarles are basically the personal troops of a Noble House, difference to a bodyguard being that they would be authorized by the Imperium, much like the Atholl Highlanders.
The Atholl Highlanders is a Scottish ceremonial infantry regiment. They are the only remaining private army in Europe, and act as the personal bodyguard to the Duke of Atholl;[1] Chieftain of the Clan Murray, a family that has thrived in Perthshire for some 750 years. Although it has no official military role, this hand-picked body of local men are armed with Lee Metford rifles, and the regiment includes a pipe band. Joining the Highlanders is by invitation-only from the Duke, who specially selects men with ties to the estate or the local area. The regiment is not part of the British Army but under the command of the Duke of Atholl, and based at Blair Castle, Blair Atholl.[2]
Equipment and training is likely about how much the Noble can afford, or is willing to spend on it.
I would think that the actual size would be limited by the Imperial Warrant.
Regarding re-equipping low technology troops, their sense of self preservation will motivate them to hang onto, or reacquire, the upgrades.
While the Army usually doesn't get much of my attention, as I recall Huscarles are basically the personal troops of a Noble House, difference to a bodyguard being that they would be authorized by the Imperium, much like the Atholl Highlanders.
The Atholl Highlanders is a Scottish ceremonial infantry regiment. They are the only remaining private army in Europe, and act as the personal bodyguard to the Duke of Atholl;[1] Chieftain of the Clan Murray, a family that has thrived in Perthshire for some 750 years. Although it has no official military role, this hand-picked body of local men are armed with Lee Metford rifles, and the regiment includes a pipe band. Joining the Highlanders is by invitation-only from the Duke, who specially selects men with ties to the estate or the local area. The regiment is not part of the British Army but under the command of the Duke of Atholl, and based at Blair Castle, Blair Atholl.[2]
Equipment and training is likely about how much the Noble can afford, or is willing to spend on it.
I would think that the actual size would be limited by the Imperial Warrant.
Regarding re-equipping low technology troops, their sense of self preservation will motivate them to hang onto, or reacquire, the upgrades.
And yet we have exactly one example of a noble raising huscarls - the subsector duke of Regina with just one (or two if you've read the Amindii articles in Imperiallines and accept Marc's T5 idea that every other inhabited planet has intelligent sophonts that we've never heard of before) regiments.
Now a model where regular imperial regiments are all raised by nobles and have titles like the 978th Count of Whatever's Lift Infantry Regiment would work as in the RW that is how ancien regime armies were organised for centuries.
In practise of course in that model the duke or count or whatever is just the honorary colonel and the the actual commanders are regular imperial officers.
And like the C18 and C19 RW British army (which retained private ownership of regiments decades after other armies became national and conscript) regiments would have multiple battalions, squadrons and batteries which would typically be split up between brigades which would be drawn from multiple worlds to reinforce their loyalty to the imperium.
PDFs OTOH would be raised by their world government not by the imperial noble associated with their planet and in times of crisis individual units of any size might well be imperialised and taken offworld and in time might become regular imperial units under the sponsorship of a noble.
Which sounds a lot like the National Guard in the US which is theoretically under the state governors but in practise can be mobilised under presidential command whenever required.
But this is not how the imperial army has been depicted in previous OTU publications.
Now a model where regular imperial regiments are all raised by nobles and have titles like the 978th Count of Whatever's Lift Infantry Regiment would work as in the RW that is how ancien regime armies were organised for centuries.
In practise of course in that model the duke or count or whatever is just the honorary colonel and the the actual commanders are regular imperial officers.
And like the C18 and C19 RW British army (which retained private ownership of regiments decades after other armies became national and conscript) regiments would have multiple battalions, squadrons and batteries which would typically be split up between brigades which would be drawn from multiple worlds to reinforce their loyalty to the imperium.
PDFs OTOH would be raised by their world government not by the imperial noble associated with their planet and in times of crisis individual units of any size might well be imperialised and taken offworld and in time might become regular imperial units under the sponsorship of a noble.
Which sounds a lot like the National Guard in the US which is theoretically under the state governors but in practise can be mobilised under presidential command whenever required.
But this is not how the imperial army has been depicted in previous OTU publications.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Just finished the History section, and as a history major with access to most of the source material, I'd have to say it's overall a very good job of summarizing different sources. I did notice the 'sublight generation ship' mistake in reference to the Sword Worlders, but that can be corrected.
Just started the Core Sector section, which I'll admit I saw an advanced copy of some time ago. But on page 109, Kuunaa (Core 0304) is listed as a garden world (Ga), even though it's atmosphere is B: Corrosive. it wasn't there in the year-old copy I saw, so it must have slipped in during the editing process. I wouldn't want Kuunaa to become another Dallia (Spin 1435) where Atmosphere 'B' became '8' because of bad OCR or poor eyesight...
Just started the Core Sector section, which I'll admit I saw an advanced copy of some time ago. But on page 109, Kuunaa (Core 0304) is listed as a garden world (Ga), even though it's atmosphere is B: Corrosive. it wasn't there in the year-old copy I saw, so it must have slipped in during the editing process. I wouldn't want Kuunaa to become another Dallia (Spin 1435) where Atmosphere 'B' became '8' because of bad OCR or poor eyesight...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I knew I had seen a canon reference to personal shields somewhere:
I would still be tempted to raise the TL of the personal screen to TL16 or 17 so that they can't be mass produced on every TL15 industrial world in the Imperium. I would also note that the x-ray laser development is probably to get lasers into the high energy x-ray/gamma ray energy range (once you can make gamma ray lasers, and reflect them, you open up lots of new possible technologies)
Library Data Research Station Gamma.
I would still be tempted to raise the TL of the personal screen to TL16 or 17 so that they can't be mass produced on every TL15 industrial world in the Imperium. I would also note that the x-ray laser development is probably to get lasers into the high energy x-ray/gamma ray energy range (once you can make gamma ray lasers, and reflect them, you open up lots of new possible technologies
)Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
I see no issue with the Emperor having a computer/1 or iPhone - that's all he needs to play Candy Crush between meetings
While I've never claimed to understand fashion, I'm more intrigued by why he'd be wearing an advanced desert suit? Something I've missed in the book so far, Dune reference, or me just not getting it?
I like the ion rifle and personal energy shields, gives contrast between Core and Outer Rim, like someone once suggested to use Mindjammer to represent the Core and run regular Traveller for the outskirts
I'm a bit unsure how the 10 dt Explorer Mini Sub fits in the 5 dt internal bay of the Expeditionary Crawler (p.167-168)...
While I've never claimed to understand fashion, I'm more intrigued by why he'd be wearing an advanced desert suit? Something I've missed in the book so far, Dune reference, or me just not getting it?
I like the ion rifle and personal energy shields, gives contrast between Core and Outer Rim, like someone once suggested to use Mindjammer to represent the Core and run regular Traveller for the outskirts
I'm a bit unsure how the 10 dt Explorer Mini Sub fits in the 5 dt internal bay of the Expeditionary Crawler (p.167-168)...
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
Most of all, I'm just very happy with this book! I'm a Mongoose only player and collector, and finally having a sourcebook on the Third Imperium itself is a blessing! History, nobility, astrography... Perfect!
paltrysum
Emperor Mongoose
Annatar Giftbringer said:I see no issue with the Emperor having a computer/1 or iPhone - that's all he needs to play Candy Crush between meetings
While I've never claimed to understand fashion, I'm more intrigued by why he'd be wearing an advanced desert suit? Something I've missed in the book so far, Dune reference, or me just not getting it?
I like the ion rifle and personal energy shields, gives contrast between Core and Outer Rim, like someone once suggested to use Mindjammer to represent the Core and run regular Traveller for the outskirts
I'm a bit unsure how the 10 dt Explorer Mini Sub fits in the 5 dt internal bay of the Expeditionary Crawler (p.167-168)...
The desert suits must have been left in place from another adventure (I actually know which one; it comes out next month!). Looks like Iolanthe's is wrong, too. Requesting a fix from the graphics team. The sub should be five tons. Fixes incoming. Thanks for the catches. And I'm glad you enjoyed the book!
