The Size of the Ziru Sirka

[rje]

This problem has come up more than once... several years ago someone on the TML (Andrew Moffatt-Valance? Jeff Zeitlin?) figured that Vland's empire was more likely to be centered on Vland than not, and that therefore elements of Corridor and even Deneb were likely to be colonized (or at least visited).

The Vilani are victims of their own success -- after all, Terra was the straw that broke the camel's back. The seeds of their own destruction were likely sown very early.

The Vilani are also caricatures; an exaggeration of one aspect of humanity (the "Library Science" and "Compliance" aspects perhaps... okay that's two aspects...), hamstrung by bureaucracy and tradition. Sort of like working at Nortel, or EDS... I won't continue that thought.

EDG gave us a good map showing the massive jump-1 main connected to Vland. Any Vilani admiral who didn't want to be shot probably would "stick to the main" wherever at all possible... it's a fair bet that protocol dictated it. Once jump-2 was discovered, space was opened up, but I suspect jumping into gaps just wasn't the Vilani way. Woodenly following a tactic that "always worked before" is a human trait -- a stupid one, but a human one, and corporations appear to excel in it.

So, even though it seems like the Ziru Sirka ought to have reached farther than it did, I think EDG's map is more correct than not. I'm also saying that their stupidity adequately explains how they lost everything for which their ancestors worked so hard.

 

[EDG]

One thing to bear in mind is that the Vilani had a starfaring empire that lasted something like 8,000 years. And that they weren't so stodgy and traditionalist for a lot of their early history - so they'd happily find ways across the gaps that they found (that obviously is another discussion that's been done to death three times here already - how they did it doesn't matter, the fact is they did get over the gaps).

It is curious that they apparently never bothered to go "behind the claw" though - they certainly had the means to get to the Spinward Marches sector when they had J2, and without even having to jump any gaps. It's even more strange considering that they expanded all the way down to the Solomani Rim, which is much further from Vland (or Core).

 

[RandyT0001]

Here is a pic of the 1st Imperium at it's height. (Little fuzzy at bottom of image.)

It's from MegaTraveller's Alien Book Vilani and Vargr (not "canon" but Apocrypha until officially "de-canonoized" as reference material as JG stuff was, (If it has been offically "de-canonized" I've not heard nor seen a note on any boards about it, some statements about not quoting it for new Traveller publications but using it as background reference is "ok". And no I couldn't find where I saw that statement made, unfortunately.)).

It is curious that they apparently never bothered to go "behind the claw" though - they certainly had the means to get to the Spinward Marches sector when they had J2, and without even having to jump any gaps. It's even more strange considering that they expanded all the way down to the Solomani Rim, which is much further from Vland (or Core).

Agreed. That's something that never seem to get a reasonable, sensible explaination about. Why expand and colonize all the way until next to Terra, about 120 parsecs away, but no expansion beyond about 30 parsecs to spinward-coreward (into Provence sector a bit)? It would seem reasonably that even is all the other races found by the Vilani were to rimward of Vland there would have been more expansion to spinward-coreward. It's a puzzle!

 

[EDG]

It's from MegaTraveller's Alien Book Vilani and Vargr (not "canon" but Apocrypha until officially "de-canonoized" as reference material as JG stuff was, (If it has been offically "de-canonized" I've not heard nor seen a note on any boards about it, some statements about not quoting it for new Traveller publications but using it as background reference is "ok". And no I couldn't find where I saw that statement made, unfortunately.)).

AFAIK the DGP is "forbidden canon". I don't think it's actually been decanonised, it's more "ignored" in practise for canonical purposes. But that map at least pretty much agrees with every other map of the full extent of the 1I that I've seen (there's one in the back of Alien Module 6: Solomani).

Agreed. That's something that never seem to get a reasonable, sensible explaination about. Why expand and colonize all the way until next to Terra, about 120 parsecs away, but no expansion beyond about 30 parsecs to spinward-coreward (into Provence sector a bit)? It would seem reasonably that even is all the other races found by the Vilani were to rimward of Vland there would have been more expansion to spinward-coreward. It's a puzzle!

I guess that they might have been busy with the Consolidation Wars (which happened shortly after they invented J2). After those were done, maybe they sunk into their current mindset and figured they had enough worlds to deal with.

 

[RandyT0001]

But that map at least pretty much agrees with every other map of the full extent of the 1I that I've seen (there's one in the back of Alien Module 6: Solomani).

Inside the front cover of AM6 actually. Thanks for reminding me about that one. It is canon!

I guess that they might have been busy with the Consolidation Wars (which happened shortly after they invented J2). After those were done, maybe they sunk into their current mindset and figured they had enough worlds to deal with.

Just did a quick check of the Traveller bibliography.org site and I'm trying to see where more "canonical" information about the expansion of the 1st Imperium might be located. Not looking good.

 

[EDG]

Just did a quick check of the Traveller bibliography.org site and I'm trying to see where more "canonical" information about the expansion of the 1st Imperium might be located. Not looking good.

AFAIK, there isn't much more about them than what's in the Library Data and scattered across various maps. This is why I loved the V&V book*, it was pretty much the only book that talks about the Vilani in any depth at all (until GT:IW was released anyway), which is really strange given that they're such a major part of the setting. Even the GURPS (3e) Traveller Alien Races books never focussed on the Vilani.

I found it very strange that the Darrians (a pretty irrelevant bunch really) got their own Alien Module, but the Vilani never did.


*: Tangential aside - And the S&A book. At the time, these were the first detailed writeups of the alien races I'd seen in Traveller. The GT Alien Races books filled out the other races for me after the DGP ones stopped - I'd never seen any of the original CT Alien Modules, in fact the first time I saw them was when I got the Classic Traveller CD-ROM.

 

[RandyT0001]

I found it very strange that the Darrians (a pretty irrelevant bunch really) got their own Alien Module, but the Vilani never did.

But the Darrians are Traveller's grey elves in space! IIRC they were the only race/planet more advanced than the Imperium in the Spinward Marches at TL G when that supplement was released. Of course everybody wanted to know more about them.

Backslide Alert!

Well, no, they aren't really TL G. They have a few TL G relics they trade to the Imperium for protection from the Sword Worlds. Darrians really are at TL D as far as most manufacturing capabilities go. There are three squadrons of TL G ships, bolstered in numbers by the addition of some TL F ships imported from the 3I. (Lots of high tech stuff to protect them from the TL B starships of the Sword Worlds. Ugh, yeah right.)

Return to normalcy.

I thought it was weird also that the Darrians get a module but not the Vilani.

 

[EDG]

There's also the fact that one could ask why other races didn't expand further than they did too. Something stopped them, and it wasn't necessarily astrography or not having enough time to fill the available space. The word "Consolidation" speaks of pulling together and reorganising what you've got so far, if afterwards you decide to expand no further then that'll be that.

 

[AKAramis]

I found it very strange that the Darrians (a pretty irrelevant bunch really) got their own Alien Module, but the Vilani never did.

Well, from the early descriptions of the OTU as an actual setting (think post Adv4 and Sup4, and HG2E) it semed as if the Vilani were the "Normative Humans" of CHarted space, effectively described by the core rules...

it was made wrong by DGP's handling of them in the canon of MT (See Reb. SB and Ref's Companion) and the earlier JTAS article on the Vilani....

but still, the only CG differences between cultural vilani and the MT core rules are aging saves for purebloods, how cascades are handled, and the ability to trade 2 receipts for one level of your chosen specialty once per term.

Then again, under CT, such a benefit would rarely be useful... few cascades, about 1.6 skills per term, vs Mega's 2.5 or so average skills per term, and lots of cascades (20-50% of skills rolled)