The Rim Expeditions are here...

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

I mentioned all this about CMYK months ago on this forum. Nothing was done about it....

To answer the previous poster about why Mongoose still use this format— probably as is an industry standard for ink-printing actual hard copy books in high quality. They should not be using the same file they send to the printers as a pdf for customers, although there is nothing stopping Mac users (like me) from using Adobe reader, so it is kind of nobody's fault.

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, no one's fault except Apple for not having a fully functional reader

 

[Timolution]

I mentioned all this about CMYK months ago on this forum. Nothing was done about it....

To answer the previous poster about why Mongoose still use this format— probably as is an industry standard for ink-printing actual hard copy books in high quality. They should not be using the same file they send to the printers as a pdf for customers, although there is nothing stopping Mac users (like me) from using Adobe reader, so it is kind of nobody's fault.

Well yes, delivering content in CMYK colourspace is essential when you deliver prepress content, but my mystification is mostly regarding the fact that some CMYK content is left in the PDF, with the necessary CMYK icc profile likely hidden in an array somewhere as I can’t easily flush it out, despite the pdfs carrying an embedded sRGB icc profile (which I can extract and which I’m pretty sure is used by all the other none-jpx images in the pdf).

So I’m sure they are not using the prepress files for the screen-reader pdfs, but likely something wonky happens in the pipeline from master files to commercial pdfs. Difficult to say without knowing the practicalities, but the PDFs do in anyway not adhere to the published standard (to Mongoose’s credit though, I can count the amount of times that I’ve seem graphically rich PDFs adhering to said standard on one hand).

But yes, either you can use the method I posted earlier (if you can live with semi-transparant boxes around some images) or you use a 3rd party non-PDFKit reader (I tend to use PDF Viewer on mac and PDF Pro on iOS, both PSPDFKit based, as I detest the bloat-ridden doodoo that is Adobe software).

 

[CordwainerFish]

Well, no one's fault except Apple for not having a fully functional reader

Just stop, alright?

 

[apastuszak]

Well, no one's fault except Apple for not having a fully functional reader

Though this is true, you can obviously work around the issue and generate a PDF that you can view properly on Apple hardware. Mongoose has done this before. The original CSC 2023 update did not work on my iPad. The updated version did.

I can't be the only one that throws these PDFs into the Apple Books app and views them on my iPad. Apple uses the same PDFKit on iOS, iPadOS and MacOS.

I humbly ask that Mongoose gets an iPad and test the PDF on it before they release it. Any Apple user on the forum will gladly check the PDF on their device to make sure the images are displaying correctly if they decline.

 

[apastuszak]

I mentioned all this about CMYK months ago on this forum. Nothing was done about it....

To answer the previous poster about why Mongoose still use this format— probably as is an industry standard for ink-printing actual hard copy books in high quality. They should not be using the same file they send to the printers as a pdf for customers, although there is nothing stopping Mac users (like me) from using Adobe reader, so it is kind of nobody's fault.

That is correct. But it sounds to me like they should not distribute the same PDF they send to their printer for end-user consumption. There should be a separate PDF properly optimized for viewing on computers and tablets. I know this is an "Apple-Only" problem. But they can work around it pretty easily. At least I think they can.

I'm going to download a trial of Acrobat Pro and see if I can get it to convert all the images from JPEG2000 to JPEG.

 

[Sigtrygg]

So you expect them to double their workload because of the software you choose to use?

Perhaps they should charge an Apple premium for stuff that works on Apple kit - you know just like Apple does.

 

[apastuszak]

So you expect them to double their workload because of the software you choose to use?

Perhaps they should charge an Apple premium for stuff that works on Apple kit - you know just like Apple does.

Double their workload? It takes MINUTES to export a file to PDF. I'm sure there's an option in Adobe InDesign to export with sRGB profiles instead of CMYK profiles. They don't have to redo the book. They just need to make a proper export.

Please stop with your obvious hatred of Apple. It's counter-productive to the issue at hand.

I bought many RPG PDFs from different publishers like Paizo, WoTC, Pinnacle Entertainment, Chaosium, and Steve Jackson Games. Mongoose PDFs are the only ones that ever give me problems on my Apple hardware.

Mongoose just needs to figure out what settings they need to check in their export settings, make a PDF, and make that available for sale. I'm sure if they asked another publisher, they'd be happy to help them. They could even ask Adobe, since they obviously have an InDesign license and that gets them support.

I'm not trying to be an ass here. I just want this issue fixed.

If you want to see an RPG PDF done right, check out the PDF for Savage Worlds. It uses layers. You can turn off the background on all pages. You can turn off the images. There are even some annotations in the book.

I wish all RPG publishers went through the effort to do that, but I understand why they don't.

It may be because I am an old fart now. But I prefer my rulebooks to be black text on a while background with interior black and white art. I've printed some PDFs to greyscale and I prefer that over the color versions.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Double their workload? It takes MINUTES to export a file to PDF. I'm sure there's an option in Adobe InDesign to export with sRGB profiles instead of CMYK profiles. They don't have to redo the book. They just need to make a proper export.

Hmm... version control isn't a strong point of Mongoose.

 

[Vormaerin]

I don't hate Apple. I just think it's funny that people think the tiny company should be jumping through hoops because the massive company won't fix something that has been brought up on their Apple community forums for over a decade. I have no idea why they don't support CMYK, but it isn't just a Mongoose problem. Obviously, Mongoose CAN adapt to it for their products. And Apple's had years to address this issue and hasn't, so there probably isn't any other choice.

Apple makes a lot of good products. But this isn't one of them.

 

[apastuszak]

I don't hate Apple. I just think it's funny that people think the tiny company should be jumping through hoops because the massive company won't fix something that has been brought up on their Apple community forums for over a decade. I have no idea why they don't support CMYK, but it isn't just a Mongoose problem. Obviously, Mongoose CAN adapt to it for their products. And Apple's had years to address this issue and hasn't, so there probably isn't any other choice.

Apple makes a lot of good products. But this isn't one of them.

I agree. Apple SHOULD fix this. But I opened an incident with them back in January about this and the problem is still here, sadly. So, I tried to work it on the Apple side before I came crying here. I even gave Mongoose the ticket number I had open with Apple, so they could reach out to Apple.

I find it interesting that out of all the PDFs I have bought, only the Mongoose ones are giving me problems. Mongoose has to be doing something different than everyone else is. And it also only seems to be something recent that started in 2023. Because my older purchases from Mongoose are all fine.

This has me concerned that future PDFs I buy from other publishers may cause me problems. If this is a problem with some config Adobe changed, other 2023 releases from other publishers may show similar issues.

The only way Apple is going to fix this, is if a bunch of people open incidents with Apple so they see it's not an isolated issue. But the issue is isolated to Mac users of Mongoose products from 2023. That's gotta be a pretty small set of people.

I did my part and opened an incident with Apple. I encourage other Apple users to do the same thing. That will help give this visibility.

 

[Vormaerin]

Yeah, I don't know anything about the processes at Mongoose or how much effort/know how is involved in changing the art files between the pre print files and pdf files. Particularly since they use pdf buyers as additional proofreaders and feedback provides for the pre print version. Most publishers don't have cmyk files in their pdfs, for whatever reason.

But the problem does occur elsewhere. It is not just Mongoose. A quick google search will show complaints on Apple Community and elsewhere going back many years.

 

[Seffix]

The inequalities between MacOS and Windows are a regular feature of my day job, so I commiserate.

Despite that, I want to say that I am enjoying Rim Expeditions more than I expected. I originally picked it up expecting something akin to Deepnight Revelation, but I find the handling of exploration with a Solomani bent inspirational.

 

[apastuszak]

Yeah, I don't know anything about the processes at Mongoose or how much effort/know how is involved in changing the art files between the pre print files and pdf files. Particularly since they use pdf buyers as additional proofreaders and feedback provides for the pre print version. Most publishers don't have cmyk files in their pdfs, for whatever reason.

But the problem does occur elsewhere. It is not just Mongoose. A quick google search will show complaints on Apple Community and elsewhere going back many years.

I'm sure there are. But how many of those complaints are about RPG PDFs? Most of the PDFs I deal with are either for RPG games, stamp collecting pages, or aquarium magazines. And all those seem to work fine.

 

[GypsyComet]

The UWP page for Harden Subsector (Lubbock H) lists Hallstatt with a Trade Code of "Hat". Would that be "Ht" for High Tech?

 

[G'Naakbusters]

The UWP page for Harden Subsector (Lubbock H) lists Hallstatt with a Trade Code of "Hat". Would that be "Ht" for High Tech?

Some planets are rich, some poor. Some agricultural, some industrial.

On this world, all commercial business is hat-related.

Don't dare make planetfall bare-headed.

 

[Seffix]

The UWP page for Harden Subsector (Lubbock H) lists Hallstatt with a Trade Code of "Hat". Would that be "Ht" for High Tech?

I'm afraid...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats

 

[alex_greene]

Between The Great Rift, Deepnight Revelations, and this book, there's a general sense that Mongoose is reaching for adventures with a grander scope than we've seen before in Traveller.
This is the kind of scope that calls for the problematic high technology of High Guard. Hop and Skip Drives, Lyman Drives from FreeTrav, Traveller's answer to Star Trek Discovery's Spore Drive, and so on.
Of course, it would not look good for the Imperium if the species which makes the breakthrough that introduces such a drive happens to be the Zhodani, or the Solomani. And yes, it is a conceit that it would be a species of Humaniti which comes up with such a device - not the Droyne, Aslan, Vargr, K'Kree, or Hivers.

 

[G'Naakbusters]

Between The Great Rift, Deepnight Revelations, and this book, there's a general sense that Mongoose is reaching for adventures with a grander scope than we've seen before in Traveller.

Since we've had the Imperial long-range mission in Deepnight Revelation and now we have the Solomani long-range endeavours, we eventually need a Zhodani Core Expeditions book to complete the Humaniti-Goes-Very-Far-Away trifecta. Maybe once the 5FW and Zhodani Consulate books are out?

 

[Vormaerin]

Between The Great Rift, Deepnight Revelations, and this book, there's a general sense that Mongoose is reaching for adventures with a grander scope than we've seen before in Traveller.
This is the kind of scope that calls for the problematic high technology of High Guard. Hop and Skip Drives, Lyman Drives from FreeTrav, Traveller's answer to Star Trek Discovery's Spore Drive, and so on.
Of course, it would not look good for the Imperium if the species which makes the breakthrough that introduces such a drive happens to be the Zhodani, or the Solomani. And yes, it is a conceit that it would be a species of Humaniti which comes up with such a device - not the Droyne, Aslan, Vargr, K'Kree, or Hivers.

the rules exist. Use them if you want. IMHO, Mongoose advancing the tech paradigm is just as unhelpful as any other metaplot pre-defined outcomes. The future development of the setting should be left to the individual table.

Or they can release a setting that goes the opposite way from Pioneer. Instead of low tech, make it extra high tech.