The Lion of the Galaxy: Reforging the Centauri

How do you see the Centauri fleet?

  • Battle lasers as primary, twin arrays in close (current)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ion cannons as primary, reduce beams to supporting role

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I saw no beams on screen so I want beams gone!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No opinion or other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Locutus9956 said:
Ah well, I never really noticed the difference much when theyre melting my prescious Chronos, its still a 'horrible beam of doom' (incidentally if you think Chronos are good in ACTA you should've seen the B5Wars version, THAT was what I call firepower :D)

oh I noticed the difference in range when my Primus was trying to take down Triggy's Octurion!
 
I would go with the Wolf pack idea and reduction in the beams weapons. I would also like the Vorchon to be worth including in a fleet in wolf pack form as per the show. I think the ships in the show should be the prime source and everthing else secondary to these. I believe the Vorchan and the G' Quan just don't cut it in battle level fleets which is a shame really because for me they are the reason for the game.
 
This move will need a full fleet adjustment and playtest. I’m for a change that reduces the beam range and AD, with the increase of the range of the twin array. May two cents for the Pimus:
(range, arc, AD, special)
Battle laser: 12/F/4/beam, DD, SAP
Ion Array: 25/F/10/TL, AP
Ion Array: 25/P,S/6/TL, AP
Ion Array: 25/A/4/TL, AP

Did not increase the speed because the array has the full range of the battle laser.
 
I'll admit I'm all for giving the Centauri the same feel they had in the show. Fighting those beams of death as Narn has never quite sat right with me. Vorchan do need a weapons upgrade (although I'd strongly argue agains making them tougher, they tend to fall apart when they get sneezed on in the show). Although I'd like to make a few points in summary:

1. Ion Cannons dont all need the same traits.
2. Ion Cannons dont all need the same range.
3. Battle Lasers. I see these as coming in 2 flavors, mid range punch or short range AP Precise.
3. Don't make them Knife Fighters.
 
Like the idea of ion cannons.
Having them come in different sizes might help balance them out.
The Primus would would have the Heavy Cannon to the front 25" TWL,AP Medium Port/Starboard 18" TWL, Light to the Rear 12" TWL. maybe with an ion trait, gain DD within 4" or something. The hardest thing deciding what traits they should have.
Also liked the idea of Plasma Stream being SAP,TD slow loading & Battle lasers AP,Precise or something similar. Plasma Accelerators should be SAP, DD. Demos should as fast as Vorchan and have interceptors plus if it's going to be low hits hull 6.
 
angelus2000 said:
1. Ion Cannons dont all need the same traits.
2. Ion Cannons dont all need the same range.
3. Battle Lasers. I see these as coming in 2 flavors, mid range punch or short range AP Precise.
3. Don't make them Knife Fighters.

Personally the differing traits on weapons is a real bugbear I have with ACTA! :(

All matter cannons, twin arrays, battle lasers have the same traits at present.
I can see the argument for differing ranges, I've certainly been writing my ion cannon list with differing ranges but the traits I'm keen to see identical

the Centauri are knife fighters on screen though....


I agree with the Vorchan being fragile, the Primus too I'd argue (and it is the most fragile of the big 4 battleships)
 
Aside from a short-range duel with a G'Quan, when do we ever see a Primus in action?

You can't really justify calling the Centuari "knife fighters" because we see Vorchans attacking at close range. What about the Demos we see firing torpedoes at some Narn ships? Looks like medium range to me.
 
Lord David the Denied said:
Aside from a short-range duel with a G'Quan, when do we ever see a Primus in action?

You can't really justify calling the Centuari "knife fighters" because we see Vorchans attacking at close range. What about the Demos we see firing torpedoes at some Narn ships? Looks like medium range to me.

attacking B5 and bombing Narn

you just said Vorchans are knife fighters! :?

the Demos is firing at Drazi ships and the range is still pretty close.

15" is the range of Heavy Arrays on the Secundus which as a playtested vessel we know is fair, that is why I used it as a benchmark
 
15" is fair according to the playtesters, but I don't think it covers the firing at B5 very well. The station is pretty small on screen and the energy blasts dwindle into the distance. We only see the effects of the shooting because we get a close-up shot.

20"-25" seems right for the biggest ion cannons, such as the Primus would carry. Shorter ranges for smaller ships is obviously fine.
 
From the original AoG sources Centauri were heavily armed, but with a 'glass' jaw. IE, if you took out their forward quarter they lost a good chunk of their weapons.

Centauri battle lasers tended to be medium ranged affairs, heavy damage, good arcs, and yeah, I agree that they were overloaded with twin arrays.

Personally though, and here's where I agree with the other posters here, battle lasers were really only present on the largest classes of Centauri ships, the Primus, the Octurion, maybe one or two others. Pretty much every other ship was array and plasma based.

This is also pretty clear in the TV series as well. You can debate the fight at B5 all you'd like, but in every other scene we pretty much only see Vorchan's (maybe varients, and maybe the Deimos as that looks pretty much the same,) and those obviously only fire pulse weapons. This could be very well arrays and plasma weapons, though it is also obvious the guns are high damage, (they certainly make short work of the league ships they attack,) making me think they are plasma. There is no mention of Ion weapons, besides the torpedo launchers developed later, (and a couple of quotes from the tv show, geez you guys are nit pickers about that.)

Now, let's get into some stats; given certain assumptions about the centauri's level of shown technology, and their status as one of the more technologically advanced younger races:

Plasma - Plasma is inherintly unstable in a vacuum, but it is also high powered, so let's make this the heavy 'punch' for the short range centauri fleet, this means short range, but heavy damage. Plasma also ignores armor rather well. So let's say that centauri plasma weapons almost universally have SAP, DD, but at most have a 12" range, with medium and small varients more in the 8-10" range band. If we take even this basic adjustment, ships like the Vorchan end up with more of a punch and show more suitability as a pack hunting vessel.

Twin-Arrays - No change here needed, let's just give them more of them!! This should actually be the primary weapon on a large number of centauri ships, backed up by a selection of heavy arrays. This also means with the increase of twin-arrays the centauri should have a bit more ability with interceptors, as that is also supposedly a secondary benefit of these rapid fire weapons.

Heavy-Arrays - Twin-linked, DD, no real change I suppose, a good solid weapon to set as the primary weapon for several of the skirmish or raid level vessels.

Battle-Lasers - In the AOG version of this game the centauri battle lasers were kinda a mid-range of all the other varieties of lasers out there. This also strikes me as something that would work well for what we see tactically. They would want something that could strike critical systems, maybe leave an opponent's ship dead in the water so they could close in for the kill with plasma and heavy arrays. As a mid-range beam though, they probably shouldn't have a range more then 18" or so, but make them crit-hunters; SAP, Beam, Precise. This would make sense as they could go for engines, and then finish them off with the heavy weapons up close.

Ion Torpedos - This should be the centauri's long-range weapon of choice. SAP/Precise is good, but this should also be the only centauri weapon that has a range of 24" or longer. It's also relatively new for the centauri to use these weapons, so perhaps they should show up primarily on varient vessels, and the larger vessels of the fleet.

For Example;

The Primus Given the above changes would look more like;

Speed: 8
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 45/12
Crew: 60/15
Troops: 5
Craft: 2 Sentri
Special Rules: Interceptors 3 (instead of 2), Jump Point

Weapons:

Battle Laser R: 20 A: F AD: 3 Special: B/SAP/P
Twin Particle Arrays R: 8 A: F/A/P/S AD: 12/6/8/8 Special: Twin-Linked


Not much change there, but it does make it a bit more defensible when closing range to take advantage of it's increased twin array dice.


On the Other hand, the Vorchan would look more like this;

Speed: 14
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 15/5
Crew: 20/6
Troops: 1
Special: Jump Point, Interceptors 1 (to reflect the increased defense garnered by twin arrays)

Weapons:

Plasma Accelerator R: 8 A: F AD: 4 S: DD, SAP
Twin Arrays R: 8 A: F AD: 8 S: TL


This change makes the vorchan much more of a knife fighter, but much more vicious once it closes the distance to the target, and the added defense of the twin arrays means it's much more likely to actually close that distance.
 
These changes have hamstrung both ships. Taking 33% of the Vorchan's range off it in exchange for SAP means it takes longer to bring its weapons to bear and gives the enemy longer to blow it to hell. Which is not difficult, as we all know. Even at speed 14" it can end a move outside 8" of the enemy but inside the enemy's weapons range. Bye bye Vorchan...

The Primus loses 3AD of beams, 5" of range on the beams and loses DD, in exchange for 2AD on its twin arrays all round? Forcing a battle choice to close to 8" of an enemy to have any hope of dealing real damage is borderline insane, and making it do it with single damage weapons is pushing it. Even the much-maligned Omega can fire from 12" with its single damage secondaries. The 6AD beam is the only thing making the Primus worth taking; stripping it of that and giving it basically nothing to show for it just makes it another useless ship on the Centauri fleet list, of which there are quite enough.

Replacing the twin arrays on the Centauri fleet with heavy arrays and reducing the AD to re-balance the additional range and DD trait is a reasonable, if quick, fix to the ion cannon issue. Just upping the dice on twin arrays and nerfing the battle lasers isn't.
 
Lord David the Denied said:
15" is fair according to the playtesters, but I don't think it covers the firing at B5 very well. The station is pretty small on screen and the energy blasts dwindle into the distance. We only see the effects of the shooting because we get a close-up shot.

20"-25" seems right for the biggest ion cannons, such as the Primus would carry. Shorter ranges for smaller ships is obviously fine.


I think you place too much emphasis on perceived distance on screen. If we did as you said we would need to increase shadow beam weapons to about 30" range in order to reflect "the long twilight struggle"
 
LaranosTZ said:
From the original AoG sources Centauri were heavily armed, but with a 'glass' jaw. IE, if you took out their forward quarter they lost a good chunk of their weapons
.

Though my regular opponent bitterly complained about battle lasers being mounted port and starboard making them very hard to knock out when firing from the fore quarter!


There is no mention of Ion weapons, besides the torpedo launchers developed later, (and a couple of quotes from the tv show, geez you guys are nit pickers about that.)

Nitpickers perhaps but imagine a Star Trek game which left out phasers or Stargate leaving out staff weapons! Ion cannons are one of a handful of weapons to be named on screen yet aren't in the game! However as I said they are in other background material as the name for "twin arrays" so why stick with the name AOG chose? We have a better more canonical name!

Ion Torpedos - This should be the centauri's long-range weapon of choice. SAP/Precise is good, but this should also be the only centauri weapon that has a range of 24" or longer. It's also relatively new for the centauri to use these weapons, so perhaps they should show up primarily on varient vessels, and the larger vessels of the fleet.

Why would the Centauri have these? I don't recall any B5Wars Centauri ship having them :?

And I agree with Lord David, your changes weaken both ships!
 
emperorpenguin said:
I think you place too much emphasis on perceived distance on screen. If we did as you said we would need to increase shadow beam weapons to about 30" range in order to reflect "the long twilight struggle"

I'm fine with that. To put it simply, if that's how it is on screen, that's how it should be on the table. Otherwise we might as well all go and play BFG...
 
Lord David the Denied said:
I'm fine with that. To put it simply, if that's how it is on screen, that's how it should be on the table. Otherwise we might as well all go and play BFG...

30" shadow beams would be evil! :twisted:

and we'd need lasers from the Omega side turrets...
 
emperorpenguin said:
Ion Torpedos - This should be the centauri's long-range weapon of choice. SAP/Precise is good, but this should also be the only centauri weapon that has a range of 24" or longer. It's also relatively new for the centauri to use these weapons, so perhaps they should show up primarily on varient vessels, and the larger vessels of the fleet.

Why would the Centauri have these? I don't recall any B5Wars Centauri ship having them :?

Didnt the Alutarian Bombardment Cruiser and Demos carry said torpedoes? Or am I thinking of the narn version? In either case Im fairly sure the centauri DID have a variety of Ion Torpedo even if they were specifically NAMED as such.

And for the record I DO agree that both of those changes leave the ships rather on the weak side. I personally dont mind the principle, but if you want a battle level ship to rely on twin arrays it needs to have a veritable TORRENT of them at least 20AD, possibly even more!
 
Locutus9956 said:
Didnt the Alutarian Bombardment Cruiser and Demos carry said torpedoes? Or am I thinking of the narn version? In either case Im fairly sure the centauri DID have a variety of Ion Torpedo even if they were specifically NAMED as such.!

Nope they were named ballistic torpedoes, the same as in ACTA, so there is no need to rename them as ion torps (the Narn name)

EDIT Goldritter beat me to it!
 
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