The Great War?

tneva82 said:
lastbesthope said:
The minbari do not kill minbari was imposed by rule of Grey Council. Without it to lead them all the problems surfaced. There's no reason to believe they did not kill each other there. It's not like they are literally incapable of it...

The Disillusioned Captain of the Trigatri certainly felt "that perhaps things should change" and I would guess the Warrior Caste would act according to their training / indocrination if confronted by resistance, especially when they felt the "old way of things was gone". I would think like any civil war it was very bloody.................
 
JayRaider said:
Given the further expanion of League fleets in 2E, i think it would be unfair to allow them to be played as a single enitity.
They would have to big a list of ship choices.

What I mean is, all the players of any League race would be on the same team, but they'd all play a single race, not combined League fleets.
 
tneva82 said:
Fighting means invariably killing.

A few poeple have said something similar but I'l focus on your comment.

In human culture yes, fighting does tend to lead to killing. But well trained combatants, when ordered as such, will not kill unless they absolutely have to.

Now consider the Minbari warrior caste, some of the best trained in the galaxy, couple that with their societal bent towards not killing each other and I think there would be very few direct deaths (unless alcohol became involved :lol: )

I'm not saying the religious or worker castes would have given the warriors free reign, but you can fight back without killing. Also, Minbari are bloody hard to kill remember.

There is no onscreen evidence of Minbari killing Minbari directly.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
There is no onscreen evidence of Minbari killing Minbari directly.

LBH

There's HUGE amount of stuff we don't see on screen.

Your arqument seems to be based mostly on the phrase minbari do not kill minbari which was pre-grey council time based. After the breaking of grey council that is not so sure anymore.

Just because something wasn't shown in screen does not mean it didn't happen.

Leader of warrior caste specifically refered to religious caste fellows dying around Delenn as to why they would soon surrender.

Then there is the little fact that religious caste members were planning to employ poison to kill off everybody in the ship. Direct killing of other minbari's.

Minbari killed Minbari.
 
tneva82 said:
lastbesthope said:
There is no onscreen evidence of Minbari killing Minbari directly.

LBH

There's HUGE amount of stuff we don't see on screen.

Your arqument seems to be based mostly on the phrase minbari do not kill minbari which was pre-grey council time based. After the breaking of grey council that is not so sure anymore.

Just because something wasn't shown in screen does not mean it didn't happen.

But if it didn't happen on screen, or is mentioned on screen, you can't say it does happen either. My arguement is based on on screen evidence, of which "Minbari do not kill Minbari" is part.

tneva82 said:
Leader of warrior caste specifically refered to religious caste fellows dying around Delenn as to why they would soon surrender.

Dying is different from killing.

tneva82 said:
Then there is the little fact that religious caste members were planning to employ poison to kill off everybody in the ship. Direct killing of other minbari's.

Minbari killed Minbari.

They planned it, but they were viewing it as a sacrifice they rationalised it as not being murder, but anyway, the attempt was thwarted, so Minbari didn't kill Minbari in that instance, the only person injured was Lennier, and he survived.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
They planned it, but they were viewing it as a sacrifice they rationalised it as not being murder, but anyway, the attempt was thwarted, so Minbari didn't kill Minbari in that instance, the only person injured was Lennier, and he survived.

LBH

Which however shows that they aren't psychologically incapable of killing other minbari's(note that pre-grey council break this wouldn't have happened).

War is war. Minbari ARE able to kill Minbari as screen evidence shows. Thinking they didn't kill each other in civil war just because show that didn't have wars as main point is pretty silly.

Based on screen evidence Minbari's don't need to go WC either...

Based on screen evidence Centauri has just 2 warship classes which is just plain silly(or Earth has what? 5?).

Based on screen evidence Drakh's didn't plant bombs in Centauri prime(we never SAW them being put there did we?).

If JMS had systematicly put everything on view show would have died off in S1.
 
Have had an interest in this game for some time, started lurking here a bit. Then I got inspired by this topic. The following is intended as a campaign setting which allows the use of all ships currently available. I’ve been kicking the idea around since B5 Wars. Hope you enjoy.


In the wake of the Shadow Plague crisis new tumultuous times have gripped the galaxy. Trust is at an all time low, as it is clear that someone is supporting the Drakh and their dark agenda. What’s worse is they seem to have uncovered the few remaining shadow ships that had been left undisturbed during the war. Operated as an independent fleet, their appearance has spawned rumors that the ancient races are returning.

To combat this rising threat a secret cult which continues to see the Vorlons as gods left for their homeworld. Known as The Seekers of Truth, these cultists have done the unthinkable. Through luck, enlightenment, or some unknown mechanism, they have acquired a small number of Vorlon ships. They are remaining closed mouthed about their intentions, but it is clear they have adopted a radical devotion to the concept of order and will stop at nothing to see those who sow disharmony extinguished.

Contacted and aided by the Drakh, a long lost fleet lost has returned. The Dilgar, once believed extinct, have made a sudden and surprising return. A long range fleet, sent to explore unknown space at the height of Dilgar expansion, they were unable to return during the Earth Alliance counter attack due to their own tribulations with forces unknown. Ordered to stay hidden in a final command from their government in a secret communiqué, Their return is about to set the galaxy on fire.

Some will seek to obliterate this last remaining visage of what is seen as the most vial and hated of races. Yet with such a large amount of time having pasted, how can these refugees be held responsible for the crimes of their parents? Yet revenge and justice are rarely the same. Some will seek to destroy this lonely fleet while others will wish to help them. What promises they have made to the Drakh are still unknown. Should they break them, retribution will surely be swift, yet sympathy may yet prevail over the desire for revenge. Should they ask for protection, who will answer their call?

Rumors and accusations travel between the stars faster than light and an age of strife and civil war approaches, all as the Drakh have planned. Surely rouge admirals and up-start politicians of all races will seize this new age of terror as an opportunity for their personal ambitions. As formerly mothballed ships are rolled out of retirement to deal with the madness at hand, one can only guess at the carnage to come.

Can the Dilgar race be saved from their own past?
Will this secret Shadow fleet be uncovered as a hoax, albeit a dangerous one?
Will these ‘Seekers of Truth’ prove more dangerous and fanatical than the Drakh?
What of the ISA? Can it be saved from the inevitable strife that will follow the return of these forces once thought extinguished?
Only time and war can answer these questions.
 
Dude that's an awesome plot! I think that any campain run on a global scale should be of the "send us the results" variety. Keeping the books balanced for all the players R&R points world wide would be an impossible task. Also I think that game results are what is important in determining the out come of such a campain. Resourse gathering and management is ok in a small campain between 2 or 3 people, but in a campain of this scale it would be a nightmare.

What I think should be done is set a date for the campain to commence, but set race objectives (a bit like gw's medusa campain),based around the overall plot, and then just have everyone go for it, and send in the results. Let it run for about 3-4 weeks and then announce the results. Maybe players could enter there results online in something a bit like one of the polls on this forum. That way people could keep track of how the war is going. This style of play would also let people with several different fleets have games with fleets that might otherwise be on opposite sides, and then just post in the results. Maybe there could also be supprise events that get triggered by certain results mid way through the campain. Something like that would have a very B5 feel to it.
 
three or four weeks was just a brainstorm time frame. I think what is important is to make it easy for people to take part, and get there results in so that they feel that they are part of it.
 
Dude that's an awesome plot! I think that any campain run on a global scale should be of the "send us the results" variety.
Ageed on both issues :)

So each faction would have a single leader responsible for all matters?

The easiest system i can think of would be, A leader of a faction nominates a enemy system to attack.
Then team members would play the encounter against there gaming friends and send in the results to the admin.
Then the admin would average out the victory points results to declare a winner for the encounter.
Thoughts?
 
Just as an aside, Minbari HAVE killed Minbari on screen no less. One warship destroyed the Trigatti. Sure it may not have been TRYING to destroy it and (and the Trigatti may have self destructed in fact but in either case a Minbari DID kill others)
 
[quote="JayRaider
So each faction would have a single leader responsible for all matters?

I'm not sure how in a global campain that a single leader could co-ordinate there faction. We are scattered over different timezones, and some members of a faction in the states might get hacked off waiting for their leader in the UK to wake up/get home from work. Thats why I sugested the "send in results" system. I admit it might be oversimplify things, but overwise we are looking at some serious logistical headaches. Like I said the way to spice things up would to have events triggered by numbers of wins (or losses) reaching set levels. For example, say the league lose 20 battles, it could be anounced that one of there home worlds has been bombarded by what ever race and if they don't get a set number of wins in one week against said race, then they risk a penilty when the overall campain score is taken. I realise that thing like this add to an overall story, rather than directly effects a faction. This is just an idea, feel free to throw stones, or better ideas,at it.
 
Banichi said:
This style of play would also let people with several different fleets have games with fleets that might otherwise be on opposite sides, and then just post in the results.

Yes, I know, It is probably bad form to quote yourself, but in hindsight this idear might not have been that great. It might be better to have people stick to one race. That way they might take more interest in how their particular race/side is going, and fight that much more harder if things are not going well. If you have more than one fleet you can have friends or fellow club members fight against you, and post those results
 
tneva82 said:
lastbesthope said:
They planned it, but they were viewing it as a sacrifice they rationalised it as not being murder, but anyway, the attempt was thwarted, so Minbari didn't kill Minbari in that instance, the only person injured was Lennier, and he survived.

LBH

Which however shows that they aren't psychologically incapable of killing other minbari's(note that pre-grey council break this wouldn't have happened).

War is war. Minbari ARE able to kill Minbari as screen evidence shows. Thinking they didn't kill each other in civil war just because show that didn't have wars as main point is pretty silly.

As silly as assuming people were killed with no evidence of it? Good luck in your future career as a lawyer :lol:

I never said Minbari were incapable of killing each other, just that we have no direct evidence of it. Although thinking on, I seem to recall them mentioning no Minbari has killed another Minbari in a thousand years, i.e. Valen's time. but anyway we were discussing a more 'contemporary' time frame to the show's episodes.

tneva82 said:
Based on screen evidence Minbari's don't need to go WC either...

Based on screen evidence Centauri has just 2 warship classes which is just plain silly(or Earth has what? 5?).

Based on screen evidence Drakh's didn't plant bombs in Centauri prime(we never SAW them being put there did we?).

If JMS had systematicly put everything on view show would have died off in S1.

Most of these, but particularly the first point can be answered with:

"Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack"

More specifically, the Drakh could have been bluffing and it is reasonable to assume that the Centauri and EA fleets have opther vessel types.

As for the rest I 've said all I have to say, if you want to believe that Minbari died directly at the hands of the Minbari during the Civil War feel free to do so. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm not saying they did, all I'm saying is that there is no onscreen evidence to prove they did.

LBH
 
I love Spike's background as the basis for a campaign - it strikes me as typically GW in style but they really do know how to run a global campaign!

2-3 months would be a good timeframe, as would having a website dedicated to the campaign, with updates, maps and a blog.

I like the idea of a simple plot with each faction trying to further its own aims at the expense of everyone else. Races can ally but only in the form of coordinating their attacks to have maximum impact on their own strategic targets.
 
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