the 2008 update book - ideas

Fully agree with the people who want the Abbai to be reworked. 2e just about destroyed them as a fleet, less hull, less ad, less agility (The bimith). The shield mechanic is a nice idea, but what the fleet traded off for shields is way out of wack. Oh, and I nearly forgot, poo fighters.

Although, come to think about it kothas actually got a wee bit better in 2e.
 
Hmm
OK My two Pennorth

Revised Gaim (Well Duh!)
Slightly improved Ochlavita for the Dilgar
The Sekhmet Cruiser for the Dilgar (LC's excellent Dilgar war series can be found in several places on the net thank goodness!)
Oh and the Ghosts of Omelos for 2e
Skirmish Level 'White Star A like' for the ISA, cos at the moment their only Skirmish choice fails completely to fit into their fleet philosophy
Better Campaign Rules
Allied to the above, more extensive Dilgar War Era Fleet lists for the League and even EA
 
From my point of view, and in no particular order of preferrence:

1. New Gaim list - please, please!
2. Decheesed G'Vrahn
3. New Marathon which isn't made of sodding tissue paper!!!(I don't care how big the gun is, it needs more hit points for a battle level ship!)
4. New campaign system, more tactical play.
 
1) Definately a revised Gaim

2) Better Shadow Fighters (Just for Da Boss :D )

3) Revising the Campaign rules adding more options.

4) Plugging the priority holes the Shadows and the Vorlons have.
 
I haven't played against a Gaim fleet but I'll say a revised Gaim fleet because it seems the thing to do...
Anyway I'd like to see an expanded ISA fleet. Maybe the new Valen Class ship from The Lose Tales. And I agree with the earlier comment for a skirmish level ship for them. The Nolo'Tar isn't an optimal choice. More campaign's would be great. I'd like to see some more on the Technomages as well. We have just the Pinnace right now maybe give them a way to actually be used in more than just a scenario.
 
Yeah, the Gaim thing...

Also, I'd like to change the 'All Stop!' SA, so the once a ship is 'stopped' - ie no turns, moves zero to half maximum - she continues moving like that until a second, 'Full Ahead!' SA restores her to normal movement.
 
Agree with Locutus' statements about the Abbai.

1. Rules clarifications and Errata. The best thing Mongoose could do would be to poll the community for all questions/comments/misunderstandings. The 2nd Ed FAQ thread was heading in that direction, but it looks to have been forgotten by MGP.

2. Fix the Abbai. As Locutus said, the shield mechanic works great, but the Abbai recharge rate is too slow. The Abbai can deal out damage, but with no DD or AP, it can take a very long time. If their defenses were better, this "war of attrition" style offense might work, but as things stand the Abbai shields are next to useless after the first turn of incoming fire. To make things worse, Quad Particle Array (QPA) range is so low that I'm usually into the 2nd or 3rd round of taking fire before my QPA's are in range. Personally, I'd like to see three changes:
2a. Slight increase in Shield recharge.
2b. QPA get Precise (adds to theme started in Combat Lasers, and lets Abbai dish out damage without dragging the game out or giving them even more AD).
2c. Take Weak trait away from Kotha weapons. Lets face it, the Kotha suck and making their weapons Weak takes away the one really obvious tactic that would make sense for the Abbai, using them as Interceptors.

3. Fix the Gaim. The sheer number of breaching pods and fighters, aside from game balance issue, is just a drag on the game.
 
1). Fix the Gaim. This should not be a minor modification of traits, but an entire reworking; given their results, it is likely that they are overpowered by almost 80% (taken from the sport standard of Percentage = Sqrt( Points^2/(Points^2 + PointsAgainst^2)), and solving for Points and PointsAgainst as a contant times points, a formula straight from Bill James and applicable in hockey and US football as well .... does it work in EPL?) -- winning percentage in tournaments is something we know

2). Fix the Abbai. Almost the inverse argument; notable rework is required.

3). Fix the points breakdown. This formula encourages breakdowns far too much; my rough calculations make 1 Skirmish + 1 Patrol just short of 1 Raid on their own due to the value of the initiative sink. It might not be that far, but a totally different breakdown system is required --- even Sky Full of Stars type lists are better. Part of this must include a few new Drazi hulls that allow them to effectively use F arc until they can boresight nonzero-value targets.

4). Fix the Campaign Scenario engine. Some of them are just awful; the Ambush scenario isn't fun and is a campaign-ender, win or lose as the defender. Blockade is often manifestly unplayable as a fair game. Scenarios like Rescue, Assassination, Carrier Clash, and Planetfall need to be enhanced.

5). Rule that 2-for-1 Patrol ships must move as pairs to remove their initiative sinking capabilities. These ships as they stand are extremely Munchkin. And that is a curse word.

6). Tone down boarding party combat.

7). Fix Close Blast Doors. It is too powerful by far.

8). Tweak the Shadow Pinning rules.

9). Tweak or (in 1 case) fix the other known ship issues: Jashakar Tae, G'Vrahn, Demos, Sulust, Shadow Fighter, Haltona, Shadowfury (I think that was the one we thought was way weak), entire Raider fleet listing; probably the Vorchan, Bluestar, Whitestars I and II, Shadow Stalker, Amu. --- I know I'm forgetting some.
 
I've got a lot of little things across the board that could be tweaked - please Mongoose don't discard the idea of doing some fine tuning as well as an improved Multi-System Campaign and a new race or two.
So here's My List:

1 -- GAIM - Mix up their emines and gatling lasers amongst the ships, balance them better, and most of all...

2 -- Clarify Suicide (and Gaim Torp) Fighters and Breach Pods, and come up with a smoother mechanic so we don't have to be pushing bases underneath ships and engaging in debates about how many Thoruns can dance on the peg of an Omega. To which I have the following suggestion:

3 -- Standardize # of Attack Craft that can attack a ship at a certain range. This will allow a little more abstract use of Fighters and AC, and avoid the aforementioned fiddling around with bases crowding around ships etc. These would be the steps:
i) Measure the fighter's move and determine if they get within one or more of their weapons ranges of the target. For those within 2" , simply stack them around the target's base as desired. For those standing at 3" range or higher, it isn't as fiddly, so place them where they would actually have to be.
ii) A Maximum number of attack craft may be within 2" of a target (including Suicides and Breachpods). This depends on the target's Priority Level:
Patrol = 2
Skirmish = 4
Raid = 8
Battle = 12
War = 20
Armageddon = 32
For ships who's size belies their PL, make a new trait called "Targeting Size", to indicate how they are *treated* for Attack Craft. Thus while a White Star may be Raid PL, it would rate a Target Size of Skirmish.

iii) Resolve AF against those within 2".
iv) Remove casualties, remaining suicides, and remaining breach pods. Set aside Suicide Fighters and Breach Pods for their respective resolution steps.
v) Resolve Suicide Fighters and Failed Skindancing fighters
vi) Resolve all Fighter attacks as normal.
vii) In the end Phase, resolve Breach Pods along with any Boarding Actions.

While improving the fighter rules a bit, I also recommend:

4 -- Give Fighters a more directed role than fiddly damage dealers. It has been suggested in the past that ALL Fighter attacks have precise. Rather, I'd suggest this - allow each Fighter Flight to declare whether it is doing a general attack, targeting engines, or targeting weapons. General attacks roll as normal.
Targeting Engines rolls attacks as Precise, but any crits are automatically Engine Crits.
Targetting Weapons counts as Precise, but any Crits rolled are automatically against Weapons. (OR 1-3 Reactor, 4-6 Weapons)

I have more suggestions, but dinner is calling...back later.
 
Da Boss said:
We will likely change the focus from a 'new fleets and ships' book to one concentrating on a camapign (like the 1e Earth-Minbari War).

Awww, but the new fleets and ships were my favourite part!

Granted, with the *ahem* newfound paucity of mini production, the key selling point of new fleets is perhaps somewhat weakened, but still. I was looking forward to the new fleet lists implied in earlier days, con sarn it. *pouts*
 
I would be interested in rules clarifications, then fixing existing fleets including the Gaim, Abbai, Vorlon, Raiders, and Shadow. The first is very difficult for and fleet and the latter fleets are not competitive against most races.
The Gaim needs to lose the advanced antifighter and flight computer. The dodge value needs to be increased for the fighter and the cruise missle and the war carrier needs to be a battle level rather than raid.

The Abbai need to be toughen up to be able to handle the long-range fire they will be recieving while they are attempting to get in range of existing weapons.

The Vorlon need better anti-fighter defense and possibly SM.
The Shadow need anti-fighter defense.
The Raiders need some strong ships.

The damaged movement of ships should be clairified. Presently a ship becomes more maneuverable by becoming damaged or moving slow. For example a ship with an intial movement of 8 becomes damaged (-2 speed) now can move 3 inches and turn when undamaged in was required to move 4 in.
My suggestion is that a ship be required to move 1/2 its original movement or its all current existing before it can turn. So the above example would change to moving 4 inches and then be able to move. Or if the ship was reduced to a damaged movement of 4 inches then it would have to move all its movement and then turn.

Another is clairfiying the (Launch Boarding parties and Shuttles SA). presently there is no procedure to defend against it. For example if a ship or space station with escorting fighters and/or anti-fighter is moving at 1/2 speed or less and is attacked by a ship using the above SA all the troops magically appear on the target without being able to be shot at.
My suggestion is that they be interceptable by escorting fighters and anti-fighter. Also the shuttles need to be given a hull of 3 so they can be shot at.
Another suggestion is that the above SA should be limited to a maximum of 50% of the inital troop level of the ship.
 
Only read through the first pages, but here goes :)

Couldn`t you bring back the Dilgar to the book of the living, independently :shock: ;)

The Dilgar Ochlavita destroyer should really be rework, at the moment the Ochlavita is only usable as the Ki variant, as it looses like 2 dices aft or some and gains command +1.

Maybe giving the Ochlavita destroyer a fighter, the model already has a "clear hangar bay" in the front =)

Yup rework Abbai(although I doubt I will never met figures on the battlefield).

The Omega is to complicated, boresight beam, and nothing else(good front) then ok side arc...Compared to a Marathon it is waste
 
The game still favors Swarming.
It slows down the game to much.
And its just not Babylon 5.
Thats my number 1 dislike about the game :)
 
I'd like to see the initiative problem and the lack of balance amongst ships addressed rather than wild goose chases against "boresight problems" and "point-splitting problems". Unfortunately, such changes would probably be major enough to make the game 3rd Ed.
 
The game still favors Swarming.
It slows down the game to much.
And its just not Babylon 5.
Thats my number 1 dislike about the game

This is my main issue with the game too.

I'd like to see a different point split so it does no longer favour splitting FAP down for ships.

I agree.

Go back to the Armageddon point splitting, and hold tournaments at 1pt Armageddon.

What is this breakdown?
 
mollari_uk said:
Go back to the Armageddon point splitting, and hold tournaments at 1pt Armageddon.

What is this breakdown?
3rd post down on this thread.
Basic differences are that splitting 2 levels down gives you 3 ships rather than 4. And you could "skip" levels, for example a war point could be split into 1 Battle and 3 Skirmish.
 
omnipotent wrote:
Yup rework Abbai(although I doubt I will never met figures on the battlefield).

Hey, I play Abbai all the time, even took them in a tournament. I don't always win with them, but I do like the fleet (previously mentioned shortcomings excepted).
 
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