Telmori question

[ealdstan]

I just bought the Ralios supplement off of drive thru rpg and I really like it.

Now, I have a question about the Telmori. Are they to be considered werewolves like in the monster book with the immunities to most types of damage or are they just like normal wolves when they change?

 

[Osentalka]

It depends.

They have shapechanging magic.
They can shapechange their head, their limbs, their body, etc. seperately, and there is a ritual/spell which shapechanges the whole body.

So there might be a classic werewolf form, with a head and claws of a wolf, but a (hairy) body of a human. And there might be a form like a normal wolf.

 

[richaje]

I just bought the Ralios supplement off of drive thru rpg and I really like it.

Now, I have a question about the Telmori. Are they to be considered werewolves like in the monster book with the immunities to most types of damage or are they just like normal wolves when they change?

Telmori take the shape of wolves when they change - they do not become half-man/half-wolf creatures. Thanks to the Curse of Gbaji/Blessing of Osentalka, they become immune to most weapons when they take the form of wolves (unlike other Hsunchen).

Jeff

 

[soltakss]

So, to clarify ...

There are at least two main types of Telmori, those who use magic to change form and those who do not. Of course, those who don't need to use magic can also use magic to change form but that will just confuse things).

Those Telmori who use spells to change form can change individual parts of their bodies, heads, torso, limbs, allowing them to become humanoid wolf-men, and can also cast a spell that stacks with the above spells to turn into true wolf form.

Those Telmori with the natural/unnatural ability to become wolves at will (Wolfbrothers in the old terminology) can change without using magic and become full wolves that are immune to normal damage, only being hurt by magic and runemetals.

 

[richaje]

Those Telmori who use spells to change form can change individual parts of their bodies, heads, torso, limbs, allowing them to become humanoid wolf-men, and can also cast a spell that stacks with the above spells to turn into true wolf form.

That's how it worked under the old RQ3 rules (not sure whether that was picked up by MRQ or not), but that is not how it works in Greg's stories. The Sartarite Telmori do not turn limb from limb into wolves - they simply assume wolfshape.

Jeff

 

[Osentalka]

> they simply assume wolfshape.

But it would be less fun (less MGF) if there were no wolfman like Telmori around in Glorantha as well.

Maybe they PREFER to assume full wolfshape, but are ABLE to change limbs, head, etc. seperately too?

In my Glorantha all Telmori would like to change into wolfshape every time they want too, but it takes a lot of practice/connection to the spiritworld to do so. So they use spells to change at least parts of themselves. If you want to run as fast as a wolf use shapechange limbs. If you want to communicate with wolfs or use their good hearing ability use change head. If you want the hide of a wolf use shapechange body. You can use the first two also to get access to the power of their claws and teeth for fighting.

Have a look at "Cults of Glorantha Volume 2" pages 31 to 34 (Korgatsu), and supplement Basmoli with Telmori.

 

[B_Steele]

There is a section on the Telmori (and other Hsunchen) in the Player's Guide to Glorantha. I would check that out.

-Bry

 

[richaje]

> they simply assume wolfshape.

But it would be less fun (less MGF) if there were no wolfman like Telmori around in Glorantha as well.

Why is that MGF or less MGF? The half-man, half-wolf werewolf is a byproduct of special effects limitations in the 1930s (Lon Chaney Jr. was a great make-up artist but he couldn't make himself look like a wolf - and dogs look silly as werewolves).

The Gloranthan hsunchen take animal form. Not piece by piece, but entirely. The piece by piece thing is an unfortunate legacy of RQ2/3.

Jeff

 

[duncan_disorderly]

The Gloranthan hsunchen take animal form. Not piece by piece, but entirely. The piece by piece thing is an unfortunate legacy of RQ2/3.

A consideration that may be true in some Gloranthas and allows Rich to be right (Hsunchen change entirely) and also Andre (Wolf-men are fun)

Normal Hsunchen do change entirely, but the cursed Telmori, who are forced to change do not always do so, and sometimes end up part man/part wolf - Not every Telmori, and not every transformation, but this is one reason they consider themselves cursed...

 

[ealdstan]

Thanks all for the feed back

In Ralios it says that the current head of the Telmori is a four legged Telmori as opposed to a two legged Telmori. The book said that the Telmori don't see a distinction between two legged and four legged Telmori. Now my question is are the wolves of the Telmori different from normal wolves in that they are intelligent?

 

[Osentalka]

>Why is that MGF or less MGF? The half-man, half-wolf
>werewolf is a byproduct of special effects limitations in
>the 1930s (Lon Chaney Jr. was a great make-up artist
>but he couldn't make himself look like a wolf - and
>dogs look silly as werewolves).

Only to explain were i came from.
There are two possibilities:
1) ALL Hsunchen only can turn into their totem animals, not piece by piece. The Telmori are no exception of that rule, except that the cursed ones turn unwillingly on Wildday.
That assumes that everything we have on them since 1979 is outdated, all campaigns played since then wrong.
2) ALL Hsunchen can turn into their totem animals piece by piece. The Telmori can do this as well, except that the cursed ones shapechange completely unwillingly on Wildday.
That would continue all we know of the Hsunchen/Telmori we know of them since 1979, and continues the way almost all campaigns have handled them so far.

You might be right about the origin of the wolfman creature look (but you also might be wrong: film "The Wolfeman" 1941... book "The Werewolf of Paris" 1935), but if Telmori can only turn into normal wolves they are nothing special anymore.
A single wolf is no thread, but a single (monster movie) werewolf is.

I would like to keep my Telmori as horror movie creatures, at least the cursed ones.

IMHO it is less fun for PLAYING in Glorantha if you only can shapechange into the totem animal completely. It might work better for fiction, but for playing in Glorantha i find it more MGF my way.


>The Gloranthan hsunchen take animal form. Not piece
>by piece, but entirely. The piece by piece thing is an
>unfortunate legacy of RQ2/3.

The Telmor Cult, including the piece by piece transformation, was published in "Dorastor - Land of Doom". At the editorial page it says the Telmor Cult was written by Sandy Petersen, Greg Stafford, ... .
Not everything written in fiction works as good as written in a roleplaying book. I go the MGF way, and the movie kind of werewolfs are more MGF that the "turn into a normal wolf" werewolfs in my opinion.

But as Greg says: Your Glorantha May Vary!


Cheers

Osentalka

 

[richaje]

>Why is that MGF or less MGF? The half-man, half-wolf
>werewolf is a byproduct of special effects limitations in
>the 1930s (Lon Chaney Jr. was a great make-up artist
>but he couldn't make himself look like a wolf - and
>dogs look silly as werewolves).

Only to explain were i came from.
There are two possibilities:
1) ALL Hsunchen only can turn into their totem animals, not piece by piece. The Telmori are no exception of that rule, except that the cursed ones turn unwillingly on Wildday.
That assumes that everything we have on them since 1979 is outdated, all campaigns played since then wrong.
2) ALL Hsunchen can turn into their totem animals piece by piece. The Telmori can do this as well, except that the cursed ones shapechange completely unwillingly on Wildday.
That would continue all we know of the Hsunchen/Telmori we know of them since 1979, and continues the way almost all campaigns have handled them so far.

Arguing about whether a classic werewolf or a movie werewolf is "more fun" is purely a matter of taste (although given the literary roots of Glorantha, classic werewolves are a better fit). However, I'm pretty sure your dates are just not right. If I recall, Tiger Sons, Wolf Runners and Bear Walkers from RQ 1 and 2 simply took animal form - not one piece at a time. Only when Sandy decided to adapt the Gorakikki rules from Troll Pak to the Telmori in the Dorastor book did Telmori become wolves one piece at a time.

Jeff

 

[Osentalka]

Arguing about whether a classic werewolf or a movie werewolf is "more fun" is purely a matter of taste (although given the literary roots of Glorantha, classic werewolves are a better fit). However, I'm pretty sure your dates are just not right. If I recall, Tiger Sons, Wolf Runners and Bear Walkers from RQ 1 and 2 simply took animal form - not one piece at a time. Only when Sandy decided to adapt the Gorakikki rules from Troll Pak to the Telmori in the Dorastor book did Telmori become wolves one piece at a time.Jeff

I had given the date 1979, you are correcting me with TrollPak of 1982, very well.

I never said anything different than that wolf-man like Telmori or wolf-form like Telmori are anything else then a matter of taste.
But why destroy the gloranthas of a lot of people, when keeping the wolf-man werewolf is so simple. It doesn´t has to be the MAIN shapechange form of the Telmori, but please keep the option.

But even otherwise, My Gloranthas Will Vary!


Cheers

Osentalka

 

[richaje]

I never said anything different than that wolf-man like Telmori or wolf-form like Telmori are anything else then a matter of taste. But why destroy the gloranthas of a lot of people, when keeping the wolf-man werewolf is so simple. It doesn´t has to be the MAIN shapechange form of the Telmori, but please keep the option.

FWIW, HQ1 did not go with the Puma-Man approach for hsunchen. In HQ, Hsunchen shapechange into the animal.


Jeff

 

[Osentalka]

HQ handles it different than RQ 2 and 3, and maybe the HQ way is the "correct" way, but why not keeping the fun of havin wolf-men around in MRQ (and maybe use them as rare individuals in HQ2)?

We have ducks, jelmre, grotarons, hoolars, etc in Glorantha, but no space for wolf-men anymore?

 

[Exubae]

Are the fourlegged pack mates of the Gbaji cursed Telmori affected by the curse as well in any way, do they become mindless killing machines with damage immunity as well during Wildday?

 

[Mouserampant]

Are the fourlegged pack mates of the Gbaji cursed Telmori affected by the curse as well in any way, do they become mindless killing machines with damage immunity as well during Wildday?

Oh, good question! The only time I ever used Telmori was when I ran a one off scenario with a group of Fronelan Pure Ones so I've never thought of that. My guess is that as the Telmori think of themselves as a mixture of two-legged and four-legged wolves, there would be no difference between them as to the effect of the curse.

Unless of course four legged Telmori become two-legged wolfmen types when the two-legs change bodily into conventional wolves? ;-)

Richard C

 

[soltakss]

I hardly ever use Telmori, I don't know why but they don't interest me that much.

There was a game we played in where the party went through Dorastor and tried to seek shelter at Old Wolf Fort but were denied entry by the guards as they might have been werewolves. They protested their innocence, so the nice friendly guard said "OK, then, PROVE you're not werewolves."

So, the question is: How do you prove you are not a werewolf?

 

[richaje]

I hardly ever use Telmori, I don't know why but they don't interest me that much.

There was a game we played in where the party went through Dorastor and tried to seek shelter at Old Wolf Fort but were denied entry by the guards as they might have been werewolves. They protested their innocence, so the nice friendly guard said "OK, then, PROVE you're not werewolves."

So, the question is: How do you prove you are not a werewolf?

Simple - just wait until the next Wild Day and prove it!

Jeff