Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Here is Jupiter, looks like it will need an extra chart, a J chart, to get the rest of its moons!
Tech Level 8 Solar System
- Thread starter Tom Kalbfus
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Tenacious-Techhunter
Mongoose
With Logarithmic Polar, you only need the one chart for Jupiter, and the one chart for the Sol planetary system... you really should give it a shot.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
The point is not just to show the planets, I can do it with a chart that looks like this:Tenacious-Techhunter said:
The problem is there is not much room to put space colonies on this map.
And you might have missed these:
The last three are charts of the Earth System, with those I am done with Earth and all the other rocky planets, right now I just have the gas giants and their extensive system of moons. But when you look at the Earth System, I have two maps showing L4 and L5, where I can place a bunch of space colonies, this is apopular location for O'Neill colonies, but in the overall map of the Earth System, there are just 6 partial squares in which to place them, that is why I need the blow up maps of L4, and L5, so I can place a lot more colonies there. It is a lot of work, but I want to do it right. After all, this is our Solar System, I'm just mapping what I there, later on I'll add some fictional elements, or if you want, you could take these maps and add them yourself. It isn't my Solar System, its our Solar System, it only becomes my Solar System when I add my fictional colonies to it. So far, What I shown here is just astronomical fact, the inaccuracies, whatever they are, are my own of course. Anyone can use these maps for their idea of what the Solar System is going to be. I am doing a service to everyone here, though some don't seem to appreciate it as much. In the end, there will be two sets of charts, one will be like you see these, just planets and moons, they other will be the same but with my fictional elements added, it is a visual tool, for plotting movement of spacecraft and for planting space colonies.
I think I might do the Classic Traveller version OTU of this system as well, all it really is is throwing different stats up there. I'll use the Classic Scout Book as the source for the statistics and just throw them on this map with the relevant statistics. I think I'll do the OTU stats, Ill also throw the Orbital stats for a different version of the Solar System, and I'll so my own. My setting is about 63 years in the future from Orbital, so the technology is a little more advanced, though still tech level 8, also there are more space colonies. I might do the Alpha Centauri system in more detail, I'll start with he basic stats from the Traveller Map site and add more from there. I think the World Prometheus would be a good place for Chirpers/Droyne/Ancients
As you can see, they are smallish creatures with wings, they would benefit from Prometheus' lower gravity and Dense atmosphere, judging by those small wings they have. And to make it more interesting, they used to b the Ancients. There might be some technological marvels to uncover here in the Alpha Centauri System.
Tenacious-Techhunter
Mongoose
Tom Kalbfus said:
No, you’re missing my point. With a Logarithmic Polar plot, you can have one chart that puts all the planets on it, in a way you can still calculate distances between planets! As a bonus, you can use the same scale (albeit, with a different numerical base) to track your orbital periods! That way, you always know where the planets are in the system!
The individual planets and their nearby bodies, for readability reasons, certainly would need their own Logarithmic Polar plots... but at least it’s still one chart per central body, as opposed to the 2 or 3 you’re generating. Better to have one chart with all the information on it.
Tom Kalbfus said:
L4 and L5 do not have circular orbits. They have Tadpole Orbits. Tadpole Orbits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_orbit#Tadpole_orbit
Additionally, their orbits, while not unstable, are easily perturbed. This means there’s a much better case for one great big station than lots of little stations.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Those circles aren't orbits, I made these charts in a hurry, I used the underlying grid from the other charts, and in this we have a polar range from the center of the Lagrange oval, I didnt have time to erase those circles, and I figured, why not just leave them?Tenacious-Techhunter said:
Why would there be only one space station? There is a lot of room at L4 and L5, and space stations are artificial objects, they can be assumed to have thrusters, they are not stuck in their orbits the way planets are.
These would be typical of the many space colonies to be found at L4 and L5.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
It might be useful for moving bulk commodities around, perhaps for terraforming projects. Things that can take their time to get there. Terraforming projects can last centuries, so there is no hurry to get stuff to them, so long as they arrive on a schedule. For instance Mars could use nitrogen from TItan, its atmosphere is nearly 100% carbon-dioxide. Titan has what Mars does not, a Nitrogen atmosphere, and plenty of oxygen and hydrogen for making an ocean and a breathable atmosphere.Sigtrygg said:
In the more immediate future, construction of Solar Power Satellites will probably occur in Earth orbit, not to export those same satellites, you use electric thrusters, such as an ion drive powered by the Sun, you move the SPS to an unstable Lagrange point and wait for orbital mechanics to deliver the satellite to the desired location, for instance Mars. The SPS would be delivered to the Earth-Sun L2 point, and orbital mechanics would then take it to the Mars-Sun L1 point. Or maybe go from the Earth-Sun L1 point to the Venus-Sun L2 Point, and from there, it could drop into a 24-hour orbit with the help of ion thrusters.
The same could be done for the space colonies I have pictured above, they would be build in one location an sent to another, where perhaps labor isn't so cheap.
Here is the J-Chart for Jupiter, looks like I will need a K-Chart as well at the scale of 5,000,000 miles per square, but I think Jupiter will be the only one. Most of the Jupiter colonies will be found on the J and K charts, because of Jupiter's radiation. Some colonies may be in elliptical orbits that bring them close to Jupiter every now and then. The colonies meters thick hulls should protect those inside, but going outside in a space suit would be out of the question during those times.
As for why I don't use logarithmic charts, guess I'm just stubborn, and it is our Solar System, I think it deserves the extra effort.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
They are also good for observing Earth. L2 stays constantly in Earth's shadow, if you want to keep something cold, such as a tank full of liquid hydrogen, you might want to put it there.
Here is the third part of the Jupiter System: I might want to revisit Chart J Jupiter, considering how the first three satellites on this chart are so close together.
Here is the third part of the Jupiter System: I might want to revisit Chart J Jupiter, considering how the first three satellites on this chart are so close together.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Yeah, but who cares, at that distance, to the player characters, they will barely seem to move at all, you can pretty much ignore the orbits, and just go by the positions of the satellites in the squares for determining distance and travel time from somewhere else, but if you really want to fix them, be my guest. The are small satellites anyway, barely more than captured asteroids really! I am done with Jupiter anyway and am moving on to Saturn, then its Uranus, and Neptune, and I'm done with the natural Solar System. I'll copy each of these charts and add my own stuff to them, setting specific material. Right now all we go is a generic Solar System which can be used in any campaign.
Tom Kalbfus said:
You want to put in every object in the solar system but you don't want to represent them as they actually are. Never mind then. Also they would move, though their orbital periods are more between 2/3rds of a year and 2 years.
I'm really struggling to see who this is aimed at, exactly. You haven't presented anything that anybody doesn't know yet or can find in a more accessible form elsewhere.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
You have to decide at what level of realism you have to stop at, for instance many of the orbits are also inclined to the ecliptic, but I'm not going to both with that, it is enough that I present the Solar System at the proper scale, each chart I'm going to treat as a subsector, there are a bunch or worlds on each.
Here is my Saturn I chart, I widened it by two squares so I could include Titan's orbit, as it went just off the edge of this map.
I think it makes little difference to he players whether the orbits are circular or elliptical, it is easier to track planets and moons in circular orbits, and anyway, the book I am using gives only the average orbital radius of the moons. It gives eccentricity too, but the largest eccentricity is 0.163 for Phoebe.
Here is my Saturn I chart, I widened it by two squares so I could include Titan's orbit, as it went just off the edge of this map.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
This is a generic Solar System charts, it could be used by anyone that has the Solar System in their campaign. One set of charts will be just the Solar System, and another will be the Solar System with fictional elements added to it, These Solar System charts are the canvass. It obliviates the need for a Jump Drive since this setting is the Solar System, which replaces the map of Charted Space that is used in the OTU. The Solar System is the entire "Galaxy" in other words, which means I need a lot more things than just nine planets! As far as the players are concerned, they could care less whether the planets are in circular orbits or orbits that are slightly elliptical, the difference in travel time is slight. A truly accurate Solar System representation would have to take into account the gravitational influences of the planets and moons on each other, as well as Kepler's law which states that each orbital body maps out equal areas of an ellipse over equal time intervals. To take into account all the gravitational influences on each planet would require a lot of number crunching. Instead I'll use the orbital period to determine how much each world moves over an equal time interval, which is a fraction of the circumference, not 100% accurate, but then this is a paper and pencil game, I need to be ale to put this down on paper for future reference.fusor said:
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
I'll pause here, I think I want to stop at J, and I will submit a larger chart which is 4 squares wider so I can get Phobe, I don't think that satellite alone is worth another chart. But I'm going t try something else first.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
This is the Third Imperium chart of the Inner Solar System.
Here we zoom in on Earth/Terra.
The Earth-Luna System.
The Middle System.
Inner Jupiter System
Outer Jupiter System
The Saturn System. as you can see I provide maps only for the important parts. that said Titan is remarkably underpopulated, having a population of no more than 99 people. I guess people in the Third Imperium prefer not to live there.
Spartan159
Banded Mongoose
Tom, what are you making these charts with?
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
The Paint program that comes with Windows 8. it has tools to make circles, ellipses and other stuff, including a 5-pointed star for a Navy Base, and the triangle scout base symbol.Spartan159 said:
I have a few other ideas as well. My setting is going to have a more populated Solar System than the Traveller OTU setting, this is the 22nd century and there is no other place to go Titan will probably have at least a population 6 rating, most people will live under insulated domes with internal air pressure supporting the domes. Atmosphere from the outside is heated and pumped in to maintain the internal pressure slightly greater than the outside to hold up the domes. A fusion reactor provides the energy source, water ice is melted, some of it is split into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis, the hydrogen is sold as reaction mass to passing spaceships, some of it is exported to Venus, oxygen is added to the internal atmosphere, and a reservoir of liquid oxygen is stored outside in tanks for emergencies (no refrigeration required) Titan versions of the pressurized air/raft fly around from place to place on Titan. Flying is very easy on Titan, thanks to its low gravity and substantial atmosphere. Although the atmosphere has 1.5 times the pressure at sea level on Earth, Titan's atmosphere is even denser than that would imply, because of the extreme cold, it is easy to generate lift by flying slowly, it is almost like flying a submarine. Going fast is harder than on Earth, because you have this dense atmosphere to push aside..
On Earth I am thinking of three Superpowers, there is the United States, not the United States of America, just the United States, as there are some states in other places besides North America. There is the Sino-Japanese Empire with its capital in Tokyo. The People's Republic of China collapsed some time ago, and its remains were divided between Japan, Russia, and United Korea. Russia got the North Eastern part and Mongolia, Japan got the coastal regions and Manchuria, Korea got the southern portion. Russia is often referred to these days as the Eastern Empire, its Capital is in Constantinople, formerly Istanbul, the current Emperor is Czar Boris II of the Putin Dynasty. The formal name of Russia is "The Renewed Eastern Roman Empire", but in short, because the Italians don't like it, it is commonly called the Eastern Empire. There are Solar System nations as well, Mars being the most prominent.
It's unclear to me how these charts are supposed to be used. Maybe if you stopped posting the damn things and explained it then we might get somewhere.
For example - your "Orbit Chart A"... so if you left Earth at A, travelled to Mars on a trip that lasted 70 days, you'd end up at Mars when it was at the Q point of its orbit? (and Earth would have moved on to Q on its orbit). OK, great... so what? How does that help you with anything?
For example - your "Orbit Chart A"... so if you left Earth at A, travelled to Mars on a trip that lasted 70 days, you'd end up at Mars when it was at the Q point of its orbit? (and Earth would have moved on to Q on its orbit). OK, great... so what? How does that help you with anything?
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Earth to Mars:fusor said:
Six Squares along the Y axis, five squares along the X axis (6^2 + 5^2)^0.5 = 7.81 * 10,000,000 miles = 7,810,000 miles = 12,569,000 km is the distance
A Scout ship accelerates a 1-G for 7 hours using 10% of its hull volume in reaction mass. 9.8 m/s * 7 * 60 * 60 seconds = 246.96 km/sec. Traveling at an average speed of 123.48 km/sec for the first 7 hours of the trip and the last, the ship travels 6,223,392 during the acceleration phase of the trip for a total of 14 hours using 20% of the ships's hull volume in reaction mass. That leaves 6,345,608 km to travel at cruise velocity of 246.96 km/sec, this takes 25,694.9 seconds or 7.14 hours for a total trip time of 21.14 hours to go from Earth to Mars, since the planets don't move much in less than 4 days on this map, they can be assumed to hold position, and the orbital velocities compared to the speed of the space ship is trivial, so we just ignore that.
