Taxes, the Imperium, and You!

[hopsnbaer]

There is an inherent flaw in the taxation concept - that is every world would need to convert it's local currency and economy to Imperial Credits. A poor world (say TL5) economy would be quite small in IMP Cr terms compared to a moderately populated higher TL world (say 12 - the Imperial average).

In this case you would very much have worlds that paid a pittance in taxes compared to more industrial and technical worlds. Even converting pure GDP won't solve the issue, as PPP (purchasing parity power) is a more accurate model of what the 'average' citizen can buy a serving of ramen for locally. And as we see in real-life (TM), imposing import and export tariffs are messy and rarely equate to the totals that are claimed.

This idea is terribly complicated and the game already butchers the economic model. Because of all the challenges I just ignore it completely. The Imperium gets its money in a magical way, it spends it in a magical way, and the running of the government is magical. It simplifies a lot of things and leaves more time to try and rationalize things that have at least a potential of being explained away in a reasonable manner.

They did that in an earlier version and it was a nightmare and did not usually add anything to the story. Easier to handwave it a bit.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I kind of like the chart from Merchant Prince.


View attachment 6970

Interesting. That’s charging companies, I assume.

 

[hopsnbaer]

Interesting. That’s charging companies, I assume.

Looks like it was part of the process for general galactic trade.


Pay Taxes
Unless the traders somehow managed to find a buyer that is at
the top of his own commercial food chain, someone out there
is looking to make a few credits off the business taking place in
their realm of influence. In legal markets this comes in the form
of taxation, morally neutral buyers often have to pay someone
to maintain security at the market; black markets tend to have
gangs or criminal organisations that want their cut off the top
as well. Essentially, somebody has their fingers in the trading
community.
Collectively called ‘taxes’ no matter where the money is coming
from or going to, this final part of the trading process is an
important step to remind Player Character traders that getting
rich requires more than just a few good hunches.
After a trade has been completed and the trader has been paid.
The amount of money he receives as profits (based on normal
market price) is then taxed as a percentage based on the size
of the profits and the type of government overseeing the market
sector. This is shown on the following table.
Finalising our ongoing example, the trader crew accepts the
80,000 credits from their sale and head to their ship – but
are ‘ambushed’ by the local taxation officers (and their very
large bodyguards!). The local government, a Representative
Democracy, calculates the traders’ profits for the day at 10,000
Credits (earned 80,000 Credits on 70,000 Credits market-worth
of goods), requiring a payment of 8% taxes – 800 Credits. The
trader crew hand over the 800 Credits, making sure to get their
receipt for their corporate backer at home and can be on their
way, 9,200 Credits richer!
Once the traders have paid their requisite taxes, the trade
is complete and they can get on their way to their next big


opportunity – or off to lament their unfortunate losses in the


market.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Looks like it was part of the process for general galactic trade.


Pay Taxes
Unless the traders somehow managed to find a buyer that is at
the top of his own commercial food chain, someone out there
is looking to make a few credits off the business taking place in
their realm of influence. In legal markets this comes in the form
of taxation, morally neutral buyers often have to pay someone
to maintain security at the market; black markets tend to have
gangs or criminal organisations that want their cut off the top
as well. Essentially, somebody has their fingers in the trading
community.
Collectively called ‘taxes’ no matter where the money is coming
from or going to, this final part of the trading process is an
important step to remind Player Character traders that getting
rich requires more than just a few good hunches.
After a trade has been completed and the trader has been paid.
The amount of money he receives as profits (based on normal
market price) is then taxed as a percentage based on the size
of the profits and the type of government overseeing the market
sector. This is shown on the following table.
Finalising our ongoing example, the trader crew accepts the
80,000 credits from their sale and head to their ship – but
are ‘ambushed’ by the local taxation officers (and their very
large bodyguards!). The local government, a Representative
Democracy, calculates the traders’ profits for the day at 10,000
Credits (earned 80,000 Credits on 70,000 Credits market-worth
of goods), requiring a payment of 8% taxes – 800 Credits. The
trader crew hand over the 800 Credits, making sure to get their
receipt for their corporate backer at home and can be on their
way, 9,200 Credits richer!
Once the traders have paid their requisite taxes, the trade
is complete and they can get on their way to their next big


opportunity – or off to lament their unfortunate losses in the


market.

I can see how that would be complicated. I’ll bet I could automate that in my trade ledger. Thanks!

 

[rinku]

Just remember that anything the players can come up with, smart NPCs will already have thought of, and those outnumber the players at least millions to one.

 

[wintertraveller]

A cut of the docking fees from the many Imperial ports?

When you look at services The Imperium provides member worlds it seems like operating ports, protecting the ports, and protecting trade between the ports are primary functions.

 

[Terry Mixon]

A cut of the docking fees from the many Imperial ports?

When you look at services The Imperium provides member worlds it seems like operating ports, protecting the ports, and protecting trade between the ports are primary functions.

Sure, but that isn’t enough to pay for everything.

 

[Arkathan]

Oh, just look at DJT if you wanna see scamming taken to the next level. Nancy and Paul are chumps compared to Don and Junior.

Unfortunately, no websites post his stock picks, so the common man cannot emulate that success.

 

[Condottiere]

Outside of memecoins, jet planes, building funds, and actual gold bars.

You can't take it with you, so examine friends and family.

 

[Endie]

They did that in an earlier version and it was a nightmare and did not usually add anything to the story. Easier to handwave it a bit.

Yes, this is the bit that TCS did that I ignored in my spreadsheet. There are already purchasing power parity elements in the WBH figures, anyway, for RUs.

 

[ColinD]

My basic problem with taxes is that you quickly create a burden, rather than a game, if the game demands you to keep track of all taxes and make the 3I balance it's books.

So, my initial thoughts were to have the individual worlds pay taxes to the 3I. That is kinda what the Traveller Wiki says.

All other PC taxable transactions would be 'transparent' for game purposes. I have to think that because mention of 'taxes to the 3I' is absent from the CRB and CSC.

This is a really elegant solution! I will use this IMTU. Thanks

 

[steelbrok]

I kind of like the chart from Merchant Prince.


View attachment 6970

I had to chuckle at the mistype on that chart
"feudal democracy"

 

[MarcusIII]

Just remember that anything the players can come up with, smart NPCs will already have thought of, and those outnumber the players at least millions to one.

This is something I very much keep in mind as a GM. The holes the PCs think they have found in widely used systems will already have been found and exploited most likely

 

[Ewan]

There's also the Prize Court whereby on the sale of captured ships etc the following get a cut of the money
Imperial Government 25%
Sector Duke 12.5%
Subsector Duke 12.5%
Fleet Commander 10%
Squadron Commander 10%
Ships Captain 10%
Ships Officers 10%
Ships Petty Officers 5%
Ships Crew and Marines 5%
An article appeared in Challenge on the subject back in the day and imagine it would go especially on the frontiers in financing naval assets in the region.

 

[MonsterX]

Travelller has mortgages. We use spreadsheets to keep track of stuff. Why not taxes too? Once a year, the PCs have to spend a session figuring out their taxable income, and looking for the receipts they lost that they are pretty sure would be deductible expenses if they had only bothered to think to maintain a decent filing system. Oh well, maybe next year. Mongoose can make up dozens of complex forms and instruction booklets, which the PCs will fill out and if they get something wrong they have to pay fines or maybe go to jail.

Do you declare that suitcase full of money you got from smuggling guns ? That's a tough one. The IRS (Imperial Revenue Service) is a bitch, but on the other hand you don't want your involvement in supplying the weapons used to commit war crimes to become public knowledge. Tough call.

Alternately, roll Admin 6+, or pay someone else to roll it for you.

 

[MarcusIII]

Do you declare that suitcase full of money you got from smuggling guns ?

How would anyone else know about the cash?

 

[shirgall]

How would anyone else know about the cash?

Funny how the Jump constraint makes it so carrying cash is almost necessary, and vagaries around mortgages make it so paying anywhere works, but getting into arrears takes months for the mortgage company to detect it and come after you. It's not suspicious to carry cash.

It's not even practical to trace cash unless it's newly printed and suddenly missing from a bank!

 

[steelbrok]

An idea I've toyed with is that if a ship is heading off to areas less well presented by her bank the said bank sends their own representative along for all/part of the voyage.
Also, I could see the Starport Authority acting as agents for the various banks on backwater systems.

 

[actionman]

Just ask our Nancy Pelosi... Or better, go to the stock advisory websites that track her family's stock moves.
Guaranteed way to win in the stock market.

I checked this out. It's no joke.

https://www.quiverquant.com/

 

[actionman]

An idea I've toyed with is that if a ship is heading off to areas less well presented by her bank the said bank sends their own representative along for all/part of the voyage.
Also, I could see the Starport Authority acting as agents for the various banks on backwater systems.

Minor quibble: Maybe not the Starport Authority, but a private agent who has a contract to do the same. To prevent conflict of interest, and to keep the Starport Authority from getting involved with people's financial nonsense. Perhaps there would be a company whose only job was to provide a few agents at the starport to handle the interests of banks, like a sort of space money transfer business or secure transfer/storage business. This business or agent would probably have to be approved by the Starport Authority administrator to be allowed to operate on starport territory (like a concession, etc.), and the Imperial noble on the world would probably have significant influence in this matter.

Completely unrelated aside:

I'd like to see some Traveller adventures or campaigns about the absolute intrigue and skullduggery around who marries
Grand Princess Iphegenia.