Surprise rounds

[argo]

Combatants are Flat-footed until the first round of combat is over. The Surprise round is a pre-round. I'll look up the actual wording when I get home - dont' have the book here at work.

Combatants are flat-footed until they take their first action of the combat. The surprise round may be a "pre-round" but it is still a part of the combat. I'm sorry Sutek but you happen to be wrong on this one.

Furthermore I think that if you take another look at your own example you will see that if you let combatants who act in the surprise round become un-flat-footed that all of your problems with "extra speedy" travelers suddenly disapear.

Later.

 

[Sutek]

And combat doesn't start until INIT is generated and INIT isn't generated in the Surprise Round.

As far as the "extra speedy" issue, not having the Surprise Round INIT's (if you do it that way) carry over into the actual combat rounds takes care of the problem too.

I'm not sure you're seeing where I actually take issue with the system here.

 

[kintire]

Combatants are Flat-footed until the first round of combat is over. The Surprise round is a pre-round

This is your problem. This is NOT true. Combatants are flat footed until they take their first action, not until the first round is over.

Though I agree that there may be some cases where a GM may want to declare everyone to not be flat-footed I think that 99% of the time you should stick with having those who loose initative be flat-footed.

well, its a GM call as to whether he allows those wait actions, but I completely disagree. Given the extreme seriousness of being flatfooted I would NOT be too free with it. It means you can't dodge of parry at all, and effectively you WILL be hit. At lower levels, this can mean that you are taken out of the combat at once, especially against sneak attackers. Its flat out surprise, not being taken slightly aback.

 

[Foxworthy]

Combatants are Flat-footed until the first round of combat is over. The Surprise round is a pre-round. I'll look up the actual wording when I get home - dont' have the book here at work.

Actually it's not the first round of combat...

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed.

Once you have the chance to act in combat you're not flat footed.

My suggestion would be to read the whole iniative section of the SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm

Suprise is just an extra round before regular rounds kick in. Though since since they use the term regular action in the rules for flat footed it may imply that everyone is flat footed during a suprise round. I don't thinkt hat;s the intention though but I'll check some FAQs for clarity.

 

[Sutek]

From the SRD:

"Flat-Footed
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. [Characters with] the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed."

In the SRD, being aware means you roll INIT. Wht it seems to say is that if you become aware and there are others who aren't, you (A) get a surprise round (standard and free actions allowed) and the rest of the unaware combatants are Flat-footed.

Fine.

But what is screwey is that bit about being flat footed "before your first regular turn in the initiative order".

The clarification may be this:
"Inaction
Even if you can’t take actions, you retain your initiative score for the duration of the encounter."