Supplement 8: Power Armour

[apoc527]

Umm, the topic is Powered Armor. :wink:

An excellent point.

For me, the line is drawn based on whether something looks like I'd find it in an anime. Heavy Gear is definitely a mecha combat game, but I think one could get away with putting them in Traveller because they have a very non-anime feel to them.

Similarly, the ACPA in Cyberpunk 2020 are hulking combat suits, but are most assuredly power armor and NOT mecha.

Now, Jovian Chronicles? Mecha. And somewhat silly, IMO. I also don't think a book titled "Power Armor" would cover something like this either.

 

[Treebore]

Heavy Gear is pretty cool.

 

[rinku]

Landmates out of Appleseed are also in that category.

 

[vitalis6969]

All a matter of scale really. A small walker/mech can fill a role as exploration or construction/demolition/emergency rescue equipment. I referenced the Starwars AT Scout at being at the outer lip of what I'd see as agreeable in a 3I setting, and that on a TL 8-9 world or area that for whatever reasons do not employ grav tech widely. Perhaps the local group is deficient in an element vital to grav-tech. It's all handwave anyway.

True, but a small walker/mech is not power armor. It is a vehicle and a legged vehicle is like a cow with canoes for feet. It makes no sense.

I could buy a six legged mech for rough terrain exploration that a wheeled or tracked vehicle couldn't traverse. But a vectored thrust vehicle would be better.

A mech will never move as good as a tank, so the tank is a better weapons platform. It is lower, faster, more stable, etc. The same would go for construction equipment. Legs will never be a better alternative to tracks or big bouncy tires.

For exploration, if the terrain is too difficult for wheeled or tracked, then vectored thrust flight would be far superior to legs.

Walking power suits are cool, no doubt, and I really like the AT/ST. But it would really need a specific environment to operate in in order to be superior to a wheeled, tracked, or vectored thrust vehicle.

Yes, we are working on loader suits and stuff, but that is just it, it is a suit. A precursor to power armor, i.e. something you wear. The moment you transition from wearing it to piloting it, it loses it's function.

Now, after typing all that... Like you said, handwave it. And if the scene you are describing screams to have that AT/ST stomping along with mottled paint through a huge pacific N/W rain forest, then by all means do it. I certainly like the image...

-V

 

[TC]

I do not agre that treads/wheels are always the better option. In a number of rough terrain areas, including a heavily damaged urban battelfield, a 6-8 legged walker would be much more stable, mobie and effective. More to the point, it could carry loads a non A-G aircraft cannot. Nature has already designed this basic platform, it's quite adaptable to many surfaces, capable of fast locomotion over very rough terrain, etc. etc.

The key point to most walker discussions within the 3I background come down to this: TL and Anti-Grav. I agree that A-G would see this general technology fade away, but before A-G, it is an option. It can go where wheels and treads can't, thats all that needs to be said for it to fill a niche in the garage. Right next to the Hovercraft and the Hydrofoil.

 

[TC]

For me, the line is drawn based on whether something looks like I'd find it in an anime. Heavy Gear is definitely a mecha combat game, but I think one could get away with putting them in Traveller because they have a very non-anime feel to them.

Similarly, the ACPA in Cyberpunk 2020 are hulking combat suits, but are most assuredly power armor and NOT mecha.

Anime/Manga has produced more than a few really good ideas. Landmate's being one excellent example, Appleseed's combat arms altogether, minus the artillery platforms.

Madox-01 is another, and I think a fine concept of a heavy, early power armor design. Older anime.

Armored Trooper Votoms is old school, genrally realisticly based, anime/manga.

All of the above examples are worn, not piloted.

I would argue that the Battle Dress skill is a piloting skill anyhow.

 

[nats]

A whole book on power armour in excess to what is already covered in the CSC seems to be evidence of Mongoose scraping the barrel to me. I would have liked Mongoose to have put all the equipment, vehicle and armour design into one concise book and start creating some decent adventures instead. I cant blame them for trying to make money of their license but seriously makes me wonder what other rubbish they have planned for their next 7 years. CT for me from now on.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Umm, the topic is Powered Armor. :wink:

An excellent point.

For me, the line is drawn based on whether something looks like I'd find it in an anime. Heavy Gear is definitely a mecha combat game, but I think one could get away with putting them in Traveller because they have a very non-anime feel to them.

Heavy Gear's look and feel is based on an anime called Armoured Trooper VOTOMS (which TC meantioned too)

 

[Treebore]

A whole book on power armour in excess to what is already covered in the CSC seems to be evidence of Mongoose scraping the barrel to me. I would have liked Mongoose to have put all the equipment, vehicle and armour design into one concise book and start creating some decent adventures instead. I cant blame them for trying to make money of their license but seriously makes me wonder what other rubbish they have planned for their next 7 years. CT for me from now on.

??

Just because you can't imagine there being more worthwhile content to explore does not in any way mean there isn't.

Take classic Traveller, if you read the magazine articles and put them all together you will find not only more material, but suggestions at even more possibilities. Now if you combine those suggested possibilities with what has also become more mainstream in the real world, scientifically, in literature, and not only via Manga's, there are tons and tons of possible material to add to the subject.

But if your happy with Classic and being 30 years out of date that is fine too.

 

[DFW]

It would be more worthwhile to see additional sectors fleshed out. At least that's what I'd purchase. But, I can also see people being interested in this topic.

 

[Treebore]

Maybe. This is definitely a product for people already open to the idea, or to people looking for new ideas upon which to expand their own ideas.

 

[Gee4orce]

You can't really have a sensible argument about the pros and cons of speculative technology when we don't know what it's real-world limitations are.

Maybe Mechs would be better for load carrying, but it seems in the traveller universe that A/G technology is pretty much limitless in it's application. In this case, mechs are pretty redundant because anything a walking machine can do can be done more efficiently with a floating grav vehicle. Of course, at lower TLs the situation might be different, and arguable A/G is invented way too early in Traveller TLs.

I think this is why you only really see mechs in settings where A/G has not been invented. For instance, Avatar has mechs, conventional ground vehicles, and aerodynamic air vehicles. Heavy Gear has mechs, and more or less conventional ground and air vehicles (land ships are never properly explained though).

I think it's a bad idea to base anything on Star Wars, as that's just pure space fantasy pulp where 'cool' outweighs 'sensible' and 'realistic' every time.

 

[rinku]

Cost is a simple reason why walkers may be used in many situations. Traveller grav vehicles are quite expensive.

 

[rust]

In this case, mechs are pretty redundant because anything a walking machine can do can be done more efficiently with a floating grav vehicle.

I am not sure. Imagine a rough terrain and very strong winds, and an
insect like low profile walker with six legs may well do better than any
wheeled or tracked ground vehicle or grav vehicle, and (as rinku men-
tioned) at a lower cost, too.

 

[nats]

A whole book on power armour in excess to what is already covered in the CSC seems to be evidence of Mongoose scraping the barrel to me. I would have liked Mongoose to have put all the equipment, vehicle and armour design into one concise book and start creating some decent adventures instead. I cant blame them for trying to make money of their license but seriously makes me wonder what other rubbish they have planned for their next 7 years. CT for me from now on.

??

Just because you can't imagine there being more worthwhile content to explore does not in any way mean there isn't.

Take classic Traveller, if you read the magazine articles and put them all together you will find not only more material, but suggestions at even more possibilities. Now if you combine those suggested possibilities with what has also become more mainstream in the real world, scientifically, in literature, and not only via Manga's, there are tons and tons of possible material to add to the subject.

But if your happy with Classic and being 30 years out of date that is fine too.

Thing is Ive realised that Classic Traveller doesnt go out of date and there is nothing that Mongoose have produced that I want or cant work up myself with a little imagination. CT gives you the building blocks to create. MT gives you a straightjacket - no imagination required. Yes MT is suitable for the youngsters of today who are used to computer games providing their worlds ready made, but for people like me who enjoy making things up myself I dont like the way MT has rules for absolutely everything. A whole book on Power Armour for example which will no doubt cover every kind of dull variation of armour you could possibly think of so you dont have to imagine it yourself!. When CT gives it a few sentences and then lets yours imagination loose...great stuff.

 

[rust]

MT gives you a straightjacket - no imagination required. Yes MT is suitable for the youngsters of today who are used to computer games providing their worlds ready made, but for people like me who enjoy making things up myself I dont like the way MT has rules for absolutely everything.

A matter of taste, as so often. :lol:

What you see as a straightjacket, I see as a toolbox, and as a not really
full one - just take a look at GURPS, which has a lot more material of that
kind. And I very much welcome that toolbox, exactly because I usually
write my own settings, and the more material to work with the better for
me.

It also has nothing at all to do with age, I am really not a youngster, ha-
ving played Traveller for more than thirty years now.

So, tastes are different, and if you prefer the - from my point of view -
rather minimalist approach of Classic Traveller, that is of course fine -
just do not confuse your personal preferences with an objective reality,
please.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

It's worth noting that this is a book about Power Armour rather than full fledged combat mechs. Stuff like the Marauders from Starship Troopers, the fighting suits from Forever War, or Elementals in BattleTech; and yes, Anime and Manga designs like the Hardsuits from Bubblegum crisis, Landmates from Bubblegum Crisis, and the MOSPEDA/Cyclone from Genesis Climber MOSPEDA/Robotech: The New Generation.

Full on combat Mecha like Macross Valkyries, BattleTech mechs and the like are covered by Combat Vehicles.

 

[AndrewW]

It's worth noting that this is a book about Power Armour rather than full fledged combat mechs. Stuff like the Marauders from Starship Troopers, the fighting suits from Forever War, or Elementals in BattleTech; and yes, Anime and Manga designs like the Hardsuits from Bubblegum crisis, Landmates from Bubblegum Crisis, and the MOSPEDA/Cyclone from Genesis Climber MOSPEDA/Robotech: The New Generation.

Full on combat Mecha like Macross Valkyries, BattleTech mechs and the like are covered by Combat Vehicles.

Perhaps.

 

[Treebore]

Classic Traveller HAS rules for everything, if you bought everything printed for it, especially the magazines, which I did. I to look at all of that as a tool box, so I pick and choose what I wish to use and ignore the rest, which is what I do with every RPG I own. Once I buy an RPG it becomes my right to use it however I wish to use it. This idea that I am shackled down by anything "official" has never applied to me, I have always known who is boss, the GM.

 

[nats]

Classic Traveller HAS rules for everything, if you bought everything printed for it, especially the magazines, which I did. I to look at all of that as a tool box, so I pick and choose what I wish to use and ignore the rest, which is what I do with every RPG I own. Once I buy an RPG it becomes my right to use it however I wish to use it. This idea that I am shackled down by anything "official" has never applied to me, I have always known who is boss, the GM.

I agree that you can pick and choose what to use out of all the MT stuff, of course, but for me I dont have the time nor inclination to read the MT books and then spend time trying to decide what not to use and what to use, and everytime I try to read them I am either put off by the terrible illustrations or pitiful deck plans, or by some non-Traveller-like inclusion. I always put them down thinking well thats me compleltely confused and put off.

Maybe I am just too old at 42 to get into new RPGs! I just dont think I have the willpower to learn or the required memory anymore. I tried D20 and Gurps and gave up with those too. At least I know where I stand with Classic Traveller. I suppose I'm a daft fart and just 'stuck in my ways'.

What I will say though is dont do like I did and sell all you CT stuff to replace it with MT stuff because CT is starting to get rare. Luckily Ive managed to buy most of it back but I really feel sorry I let all the books go with my original scribbles in them. Be kind to your old books whilst you are tempted by the new flashy pretender to the throne!!