Supplement 8: Cybernetics - Hacking?
- Thread starter Ataraxzy
- Start date
sideranautae
Mongoose
Ataraxzy said:
I guess it depends. If the mil doesn't follow standard procedure it is easier to hack. If the Pentagon followed the procedures laid out in the Rainbow series it wouldn't get hacked from external elements.... When was the last time that the NRO was hacked?
sideranautae said:
Sure, I'm just talking about the Rules As Written:
Code:
Deck TL: :Capacity: :SoftwareMax: :Armor: :Price:
8 2 1 0 $5,000
9 3 1 0 $8,000
...
14 6 3 4 $80,000
Code:
:Data Color: :DataType: :Level:
Black Military 3
Red Gov't 3
...
White Public 0
Orange Entertain 1
Grey Unspecified 1So, unless you can get a TL14 deck, a TL9 Military database is off-limits. That seems like a major oversight.
sideranautae
Mongoose
AndrewW said:
Well, I know. And they haven't been in the past 7 years. Avoiding a system getting hacked from an external source is child's play if you have the time & cash. The military has both. What it doesn't posses is enough IQ in the right command.
Keeping a classified system from getting hacked from an external source is easier as it doesn't need to be "online".
sideranautae
Mongoose
Ataraxzy said:
As far as high tech & Trav rules: If it is higher tech than a hand powered blender, it is probably written up incorrectly. Ironically, the key people who have laid down the Trav kernel are not technology people but, Liberal Arts people. (Which while it makes for better creative writing. It makes for illogical rules in a Sci-Fi game) So, feel free to correct the rules as a GM. It is necessary if you run a game for people who are also technology/science literate.
sideranautae said:
Yeah, my players are all Unix SysAdmins and Chemical/Electrical Engineers. I'm a firm believer that any seeming ambiguities regarding fluff-text is simply a lack of imagination on my part, but when I offer my players a TL8 Cyberdeck and they go, "Great! Let's hack the Gibson!", using RAW, I'm stuck saying: "Well... wait for a TL14 world, then come back. In the meantime, how about hacking yourself some pirated holos; your deck can easily handle Orange data."
Then they pour juice all over my notes (beer's too valuable to waste).
I think I'm going to mod the Agent rules, which seem to be on the right track: it's the skills and preparation that matter. There's no 'Intrusion' program. Your hacker 'writes a program' to 'Disable all security cameras within a three-block radius', and another that 'Disrupts all LEO data-net based comms for 2D minutes.' For an extra -2DM, they can make it push-button and load it up on the Computer/2 built into the Heavy's BattleDress.
You know, Vancian Magic is actually a wonderful template for cinematic hacking: delving into Hardware Porn is a bad direction: it essentially separates the party, or forces the GM to give everyone 'Avatars', which comes off as kludgy (though, at a certain TL, with appropriate Transhuman memes in play, it works beautifully).
As Traveller is more about preparation porn than anything else (witness the extensive minigames: Character Creation, World Creation, System Creation, Sector Creation, Vehicle Creation, Capital/Sub-Cap/Small-craft Creation), extending hacking using the skill system seems natural enough that it's certainly not going to break any verisimilitude.
Now I have to come up with the rules. Score!
sideranautae
Mongoose
Ataraxzy said:
Yep. Sounds like you won't have trouble in that Dept.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
I haven't played with these rules so I may be misunderstanding them but here is my take (or mistake) on them.
1st,
There doesn't seam to be any skill level DM for the person doing the hacking?
So personally, I see this as the do it yourself off the shelf hacking hardware and program that even a child could use to try and get into their favorite game server to cheat.
That said, by the rules in this publication, it seams you need to be able to run a level 3 connect program first to perform any of the "hacks"? Other than maybe Crash (I think of that one as a denial of service type of attack).
Technically the military data at level 3 so it would be TL 14, right? How about Military data at other TL's?
I'm not sure if new rules need to be made. I just ignore this whole section of the rules and I've always used the core rules for "normal" hacking. Real computers and programs and the "jockey"s computer skill with DMs for the Security software on the system your hacking. A paranoid user could have their "Yellow" data "node" with high security while a low tech military system might not be capable of running much more than security 1.
1st,
the whole concept is just a visual virtual representation of what is really going on. To me, a real hacker would do real hacking. Not use their childs leapfrog rainbow gui virtual internet interface (deck) to hack the black node. I'm surprised the nodes don't have avatars that fight it out.
There doesn't seam to be any skill level DM for the person doing the hacking?
So personally, I see this as the do it yourself off the shelf hacking hardware and program that even a child could use to try and get into their favorite game server to cheat.
That said, by the rules in this publication, it seams you need to be able to run a level 3 connect program first to perform any of the "hacks"? Other than maybe Crash (I think of that one as a denial of service type of attack).
Technically the military data at level 3 so it would be TL 14, right? How about Military data at other TL's?
I'm not sure if new rules need to be made. I just ignore this whole section of the rules and I've always used the core rules for "normal" hacking. Real computers and programs and the "jockey"s computer skill with DMs for the Security software on the system your hacking. A paranoid user could have their "Yellow" data "node" with high security while a low tech military system might not be capable of running much more than security 1.
alex_greene
Guest
Or the characters could find information on a backdoor into the system (Streetwise 8+ and hefty bribes, or Deception 8+ and a Social Engineering roll; perhaps a spot of smelly dumpster diving to look for clues and a quick Recon 8+, and an End 8+ to hold your lunch in) and just waltz right on in.
The information could be found in a dead letter drop - a USB drive literally stuck into a wall in some dark alley, containing black market data (better make sure your deck's anti-virus software is up to scratch before jacking in to that wall-mounted flash drive, because you really do not know where the data's been).
The backdoor doesn't have to be in the software either: it could literally be a single terminal in a forgotten, windowless room on the premises, accessed through a back door that just looks like a plain maintenance access door, that is wide open, with top-level sysadmin access.
Of course, getting into that room to use that terminal would require that the hacker actually break in and enter the premises in person. Nobody said hacking was easy.
The information could be found in a dead letter drop - a USB drive literally stuck into a wall in some dark alley, containing black market data (better make sure your deck's anti-virus software is up to scratch before jacking in to that wall-mounted flash drive, because you really do not know where the data's been).
The backdoor doesn't have to be in the software either: it could literally be a single terminal in a forgotten, windowless room on the premises, accessed through a back door that just looks like a plain maintenance access door, that is wide open, with top-level sysadmin access.
Of course, getting into that room to use that terminal would require that the hacker actually break in and enter the premises in person. Nobody said hacking was easy.
alex_greene said:
Normally, this would be the route I would use. My philosophy on RAW is that justifications require imagination to come up with and very little can't be explained with proper consideration; with one exception: the case where RAW are factually incorrect without a statement saying 'IOTU, we're changing X to Z'.
The hacking system in Cybernetics is trying to be a cinematic hacking system, yet deprives it's own root literary origins (Cyberpunk, TL9 at best) of acting in a way appropriate to the genre: You can't 'hack the gibson' from your deck unless you trek off to a TL14 system and come back with gear to do so.
If the RAW are factually incorrect, then the RAW needs be changed. In this case, it requires a TL14 computer system to hack into a TL8 military computer system. This is in direct opposition to observable reality, where here on Earth, we've got TL8 (not 10, not 12...) computer systems hacking into TL8 military computer systems.
So, quick house rule while I come up with an effects-based hacking system, not a cause-based one: eliminate 'Level restrictions on decks' all decks are capable of handling all levels of software'; double software costs.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
I pondered in an earlier post but got no feedback, as per the raw the military data is at level 3 so it would be TL 14, right?Ataraxzy said:
So by my limited understanding it seams that the raw is not saying it requires a TL14 computer system to hack into a TL8 military computer system - it appears to not cover the details of military systems under TL14.
CosmicGamer said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Per RAW, all military data is level 3, even on TL8 worlds, there's no distinction between tech levels, just data type.
To access level 3 data, you need a deck that is capable of handling level 3 programs, the first of which shows up at TL14.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Can't run level 3 on a TSR-80.Ataraxzy said:
My understanding of the raw is level 3 needs a minimum of TL14 to run
alex_greene
Guest
Had a good long look at this thing.
Okay, each deck has the following ratings.
The book continues ...
To me, it looks as if a deck of TL 8 can run up to two items of software, maximum level 1.
From what I can see, it has nothing to do with the clearance level of the data.
Subtract the deck’s Tech Level from the Sec level of node. The result, if it is greater than zero, becomes a DM to the intrusion attack roll.
So that means that if the deck is TL 8, and the node's Security is 6, does that mean that the intruder gets a +2 DM or a -2 DM? Should it not be the other way around, then - the Security rating subtracted from the deck's TL?
e.g. 1; Security 12 system, TL 10 deck. No DM.
e.g. 2; Security 10 system. TL 12 deck. +2 DM.
e.g. 3; Security 8 system. TL 12 deck. +4 DM.
e.g. 3; Security 12 system. TL 8 deck. No DM.
It doesn't mean that the deck can't handle Level 3 data on the node. I think it just means that the TL 8 deck can't handle its own software at more than level-1.
Okay, each deck has the following ratings.
Code:
TL of Deck Capacity Software Level Max Armour Price (Cr.)
8 2 1 0 5,000
9 3 1 0 8,000
10 4 1 1 14,000
11 5 2 1 26,000
12 6 2 2 40,000
13 6 2 3 60,000
14 6 3 4 80,000
15 8 3 6 100,000The book continues ...
Code:
• Capacity: The number of programs the deck can launch and run simultaneously.
• Software Level Max: The maximum level of a program the deck can run. Programs begin at level 0.
• Armour: The deck’s defence against hostile counterintrusion programs such as hunter/killers.
• Price: The cost, in credits, for a good cyberspace deck. Second hand or obsolescent models will cost less.To me, it looks as if a deck of TL 8 can run up to two items of software, maximum level 1.
Code:
No deck can run a program at a level higher than its Software Level Max rating. Programs have levels 0 through to 3, with 0 being the most basic version of the software and 3 being the most sophisticated and powerful.From what I can see, it has nothing to do with the clearance level of the data.
Subtract the deck’s Tech Level from the Sec level of node. The result, if it is greater than zero, becomes a DM to the intrusion attack roll.
So that means that if the deck is TL 8, and the node's Security is 6, does that mean that the intruder gets a +2 DM or a -2 DM? Should it not be the other way around, then - the Security rating subtracted from the deck's TL?
e.g. 1; Security 12 system, TL 10 deck. No DM.
e.g. 2; Security 10 system. TL 12 deck. +2 DM.
e.g. 3; Security 8 system. TL 12 deck. +4 DM.
e.g. 3; Security 12 system. TL 8 deck. No DM.
It doesn't mean that the deck can't handle Level 3 data on the node. I think it just means that the TL 8 deck can't handle its own software at more than level-1.
alex_greene said:
Right, it's the software that's the issue.
Here's the Connect software:
... The level of the program determines both the data that can be connected and the node it can be connected to.
Code:
Data Color Data Type Level Cost per Level
Black Military Data 3 Cr.3,500
...
Yellow Personnel Data 2 Cr.1,000So, you can't connect to a black data node without a level 3 Black Data connect program.
The other programs are the same.
Ok this is kinda a sideways answer, Instead of Supplement 8, I am going to use 13Mann's Robots book as the basis for my rules on Hacking, probably with a healthy dose of GURPs computer rules as well (Mostly Sizing rules as based on Complexity (Gurps uses Complexity which is the equivalent to a Computers Rating in Mongoose))
Ergo a TL8 "Deck" is a Rating 1 Comp specialised for Hacking thus a Rating 3 Deck costing 3800cr in its basic configuration....
Ergo a TL8 "Deck" is a Rating 1 Comp specialised for Hacking thus a Rating 3 Deck costing 3800cr in its basic configuration....
alex_greene
Guest
Connect looks kind of frelled.Ataraxzy said:
Quick workaround: the data level is subtracted from the level of the app being run from the deck, and the difference applied as a DM. So Level 3 data versus Level 1 apps, -2 DM; level 0 data, level 1 app, +1 DM. Something like that. The thing about the deck TL - the Security rating is to determine whether the hacker's making enough noise to attract attention, or something.
Though the RAW are definitely frelled.
alex_greene said:
Yeah. I like your solution. We could simplify it down one more level and achieve exactly the same math by making Deck Level into Software DM:
So:
- Get rid of the Cost-by-Color charts on Connect, as well as Intrusion, Change, Copy, Delete and Disperse.
- The new cost of the software is Black cost x 10, x Level.
- Any deck can run any level of software, at -1DM per level above what the deck is rated at.
So, Connect costs cr.35,000 x level:
cr.35,000 :: Level 1
cr.70,000 :: Level 2
cr.105,000 :: Level 3
