Summonings in Elric

[tarkhan bey]

I am having a little trouble with one aspect of the summoning rules in the Elric game. It involves the section on page 111 of the book, where it describes summoning specific creatures such as the Grahluks or Elenoin as opposed to Demons and Elemental's.
The paragraph states that these are summoned using specific ritual's and have a fixed cost in magic points. I have found that the rituals are taught by various of the cults but I cannot locate the magic point costs.
Please can someone point me in the right direction?
I would like the MP costs for the summoning rituals for Creatures of Matik,Hunting dogs of the Dharzi,Elenoin,Grahluk's and Oonai.
Loz, Are the Clakar's native to the YK plane? I know that they are rumoured to be ancestors of the Myrrhn but do they still co-exist with their more advanced descendants? Would you say that any instances of their appearance in the YK be through summoning? If so how many MP's would be used in that ritual?

 

[Charles Green]

I noticed that as well. I beleive the specific spells were intended to be included in the book but were cut in the last minute.

The spells to summon these creatures will be in the Magic book.

On your second point, as far as I can tell, clakars are native to the Young Kingdoms, and cannot be summoned by sorcerers. Why they still exist alongside the Myrrhn is one of those little mysteries that Moorcock peppers his work with.

There is no official answer, but I like to beleive that the Myrrhn are the result of some force (other than natural evolution) operating on the clakars in the distant past. Not really an intellegince, but something else. I can see a bunch of clakars stumbling into an abandoned sorcerer's home and getting caught up in a old magical experiment or something, resulting in the Myrrhn we have today.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I noticed that as well. I beleive the specific spells were intended to be included in the book but were cut in the last minute.

Yes, unfortunately the costs were all cut at the last minute, along with Rune Sorcery and the rest of the magic system <sigh>. However, as Charles has just pointed out, all the missing stuff from the original document will be released as part of his forthcoming Elric Magic Book, along with a bumper bonus of his own invaluable bells and whistles added.

I have the original MP summoning costs I calculated for Loz, laying around on my hard drive somewhere. Charles, are the MP costs still intact? If so, then I can post the values, since they should have been included in the core book anyway.

 

[tarkhan bey]

I would really appreciate that Pete. One of my players has just created a character who is an Acolyte of the Deathbringer cult. He has two gifts, Horde and Summon Elenoin.
It is my intention to have an npc foe who finds a grimoire describing the summoning ritual for the Grahluk's as well.
Am I reading page 110, The Making of a Sorceror, correctly? Is it possible to learn sorcery from a grimoire without a pact as long as the reader can understand High Speech?

 

[Charles Green]

Charles, are the MP costs still intact? If so, then I can post the values, since they should have been included in the core book anyway.

As far as I'm aware, the MP costs are still intact. However, I should point out that neither the Horde or Summoning Gift need magic points to work, strictly speaking. You pay your POW and call the creature up. This isn't like sorcery spells at all.

 

[Loz]

I would really appreciate that Pete. One of my players has just created a character who is an Acolyte of the Deathbringer cult. He has two gifts, Horde and Summon Elenoin.
It is my intention to have an npc foe who finds a grimoire describing the summoning ritual for the Grahluk's as well.
Am I reading page 110, The Making of a Sorceror, correctly? Is it possible to learn sorcery from a grimoire without a pact as long as the reader can understand High Speech?

It is, but consider a number of things before allowing it to happen.

1. Finding the grimoire. Most will be jealously guarded. These aren't D&D spellbooks or scrolls left lying around in dungeons for adventurers to trip over. The vast bulk will be in Melnibone still, and occasonally - just occasionally, you might stumble across something in a Melnib ruin.

2. Sorcerers will use codes, even in High Speech. Cran Liret, the spell thief, was adept at stealing sorcery, so many would have developed a practice of hiding their knowledge very carefully.

3. A spell like Summon Grahluk was very restricted. In the stories, Elric has to dredge it up from the depths of his memory and recalls that it was found in one of the tomes of his father. Its likely to be a unique spell.

5. Even speaking High Speech, learning the summoning, for a human mind, should takes months, if not years, to master...

Horde is also a one-shot gift. And, summoning the Elenoin or Grahluk isn't the same as Commanding them. Whoever summons them still has to do that (although they can command the whole Horde) - so as well as learning Summoning Grahluk (or Elenoin) from a tome, you'd need to learn the Command skill too.

Also bear in mind that a Gift always has strings attached. This is a favour from a God. If the Horde of Elenoin are summoned and Chardros or Hionhurn doesn't feel they're being put to a positive use for their agenda, they might cut the duration or number summoned. The character with these gifts should be encouraged to think very carefully before using it!

Hope this helps.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I would like the MP costs for the summoning rituals for Creatures of Matik,Hunting dogs of the Dharzi,Elenoin,Grahluk's and Oonai.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. Its been a bit frantic over the last few days!

Okay, I don't know if this information made it to the final book (I don't have my own copy) but each individual Summoning Ritual has the following benefits...

"Casting a specific summoning spell can be done quickly, if the sorcerer is desperate enough to risk failure. Such conjurations only require 1D8 minutes, but if the summoning test fails the sorcerer must roll on the Psychic Backlash table. However, if the sorcerer has time to prepare properly, then the spells can be cast as a full ritual (1D8 hours) as per a normal summoning. The duration the conjured creatures remain in the Young Kingdoms works as previously described in the Summoning section."

The MP costs for the creatures you requested are...

Creatures of Matik - 6 per creature of Matik
Hunting dogs of the Dharzi - 2 per hunting dog
Elenoin - 6 per elenoin
Grahluk's - 4 per Grahluk
Oonai - 8 per Oonai

As you can see, another benefit of using a specific summoning spell is that you can summon more than one simultaneously.

The improved casting time, combined with the ability to summon multiple creatures makes learning these spells worthwhile.

I hope this helps!

 

[tarkhan bey]

Thanks Pete, this is exactly the information that I need. I regret the moment of weakness which made me agree to the Deathbringer character as described previously. (The guy is one of the new players and just seemed so excited by it all, how could I refuse?)
However, I am aware that Horde is a one shot affair so it is likely that he will not use it any great haste. Lets face it, there a lot more nasty things than Elenoin that you can create through a random summoning. Its only the time constraints involved that make demons of combat less attractive.
On the subject of one shot gifts, are Wardpacts one time only? (It seems slightly cheap that a character could pact one point of his POW to Mabelode and gain a permanent ward against swords.)
As for my Npc, I may have to look at the possibility then that he is pacted to a god,but not through the cult of that Deity. I forgot that the command skill is only available through a pact.
Do you think, however, that a character who was smart enough to obtain a grimoire, decipher it and learn how to summon the Grahluks might be smart enough to realize that he should only summon them if the Elenoin are present and then exit stage left?

 

[Loz]

A ward is permanent. It might seem cheap, but one has already bartered a part of one's soul to gain it - and there are plenty of other weapons out there. One compulsion that could be levelled is that in exchange for the ward, one might suffer double damage from other forms of harm, for instance (but that's just me being evil).

Would someone who found a grimoire mentioning grahluk know that they should only be summoned when elenoin are around? Not necessarily. The grahluk and elenoin are little-known creatures and their enmity might be known only to the masters of Melnibone who had some form of contact with them before.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Ok, yeah, I can see that. So if I was designing a character with this ability I would need to think long and hard about where their knowledge of these races came from. Possibly, a half Melnibonean slave with access to his master's lore.
I agree that the summoning spell for the Grahluk's might be extremely rare but for the purposes of the game it might become slightly redundant if it was unique and available only to Elric. I may go along the line that it is available to Melniboneans of Royal blood or that the spell itself was stolen by Cran Liret and passed on to one of his followers. Which do you think is the more believable of these scenario's?

Could I ask you guys to look at the procedure that I followed to create a sorcerous character and advise me if it is correct.
1) Tell the Player that becoming a sorceror will cost them two of their Hero points.
2) Spend the first Hero point to create an initiate of a cult, giving the character the pact ability,the choice of a gift and an automatic compulsion of the GM's choosing.
3) Spend the second hero point to elevate the character to the rank of acolyte, advise the player that they must raise their Pact with their Deity(using their free points) to 50% to facilitate this.
Then,
a)Advise them upon doing this that they recieve the Sorcery skills of command,Witchsight and all their cult summonings at the basic percentages. Give them the choice of a further gift and assign a second compulsion.
Or,
b) As previously but it is the case that each cult summoning has to be taken as a gift in its own right?
I suspect that it is the latter but would like clarification.

Thanks

 

[tarkhan bey]

And that is a particularly evil compulsion, by the way. :shock:

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Then,
a)Advise them upon doing this that they recieve the Sorcery skills of command,Witchsight and all their cult summonings at the basic percentages. Give them the choice of a further gift and assign a second compulsion.
Or,
b) As previously but it is the case that each cult summoning has to be taken as a gift in its own right?
I suspect that it is the latter but would like clarification.

I'd say, upon achieving the rank of acolyte, allow them to purchase Command and Witchsight as advanced skills with their 'free points'. Each summoning must also be learned as a new advanced skill, with the caveat that the cult might restrict access to certain ones until the acolyte has proven themselves.

That prevents proliferation of spells or summonings at starting levels. Its expensive as hell in terms of skill points, but the power they'll possess once they've raised them up is considerable.

If they want to take the short cut and trade some of their soul for rapid instruction, then it'll be 1 POW per summoning spell (which starts at a default of POW). But its more economic to wait and learn them later with skill improvement rolls.

There was originally a Gift for learning new spells (as a possible way of achieving the more exotic ones), but it was cut with the Rune Sorcery rules. But don't worry, they're on their way... :twisted:

 

[Kamelion]

3) Spend the second hero point to elevate the character to the rank of acolyte, advise the player that they must raise their Pact with their Deity(using their free points) to 50% to facilitate this.

I have a question about this point: page 96 states that a character must be of acolyte level to learn magic (which is what is meant by the point above I guess).

But the sidebar on sorcerers on page 44 states that a character need only be of initiate level or higher in order to learn magic from a cult.

Which is it? Either way you need to spend the two Hero points, but as tarkhan bey points out, if you need to be of acolyte level, there is also the question of having a Pact rating of 50% (and a presumption that the character has already undergone two missions for the cult - something which I feel it would be better to play out rather than consign to backstory).

I otherwise agree that the character should purchase Witchsight, Command and any Summonings with their freebie points. This much at least coincides with what is given in the sorcerer sidebar on page 44.

(The book could really use a step-by-step example of creating a sorcerer character in addition to the non-magic using character that is already given. If Loz or someone would like to post one here on the boards, I for one would be very grateful )

 

[Loz]

The book could really use a step-by-step example of creating a sorcerer character in addition to the non-magic using character that is already given. If Loz or someone would like to post one here on the boards, I for one would be very grateful

If I get time. And right now, I haven't any...!

 

[Loz]

As a complete aside, here's an advert that appeared just now as part of my Gmail advert header:

Bring Back my Lover Spell - KatSpells.com - Returns your Desired Lover to You Even if in Another Relationship.

Who says Gifts don't work?

I haven't checked the site, so I don't know if it includes dead lovers at all...

 

[Kamelion]

The book could really use a step-by-step example of creating a sorcerer character in addition to the non-magic using character that is already given. If Loz or someone would like to post one here on the boards, I for one would be very grateful

If I get time. And right now, I haven't any...!

Fair enough - no rush . In the meantime, would you be able to clarify whether you need to be of initiate or acolyte level to learn magic from a cult? Cheers!

 

[Wolverine]

The book could really use a step-by-step example of creating a sorcerer character in addition to the non-magic using character that is already given. If Loz or someone would like to post one here on the boards, I for one would be very grateful

If I get time. And right now, I haven't any...!

Fair enough - no rush . In the meantime, would you be able to clarify whether you need to be of initiate or acolyte level to learn magic from a cult? Cheers!

Perhaps this could be included in the Companion, Loz? You were looking for suggestions.

 

[Loz]

If it goes anywhere, the Magic book will be the best place.

Okay - clarification.

If you create a sorcerer as a PC from scratch, then you can be an initiate of a cult with sorcery skills, bought as per the RAW, as part of PC generation. Its considered that, through some means, you've learned a certain degree of sorcery without full cult assistance, and this should reflect in the background rationale all sorcerer starying characters must agree with the GM.

If your character wants to learn magic from scratch later in the game, he must either go out and research it for himself, or, if he's part of a cult, he can be taught it from acolyte level onwards.

 

[Kamelion]

If it goes anywhere, the Magic book will be the best place.

Okay - clarification.

If you create a sorcerer as a PC from scratch, then you can be an initiate of a cult with sorcery skills, bought as per the RAW, as part of PC generation. Its considered that, through some means, you've learned a certain degree of sorcery without full cult assistance, and this should reflect in the background rationale all sorcerer starying characters must agree with the GM.

If your character wants to learn magic from scratch later in the game, he must either go out and research it for himself, or, if he's part of a cult, he can be taught it from acolyte level onwards.

Great - makes sense, especially with the 2 hero points required. I guess these would represent the extra effort needed for the character to learn sorcery without full cult assistance. Thanks for clearing this up. Much appreciated.