Steward Skill in Mrechant Prince

[AndrewW]

Thanks, I was looking for more detail but that'll have to do.

Doesn't really go into much detail but it's something.

 

[DFW]

Thanks, I was looking for more detail but that'll have to do.

Doesn't really go into much detail but it's something.

Yes, I can build it from the basic description.

 

[rinku]

Barracks is covered in High Guard, half the tonnage and cheaper but only 1 person per.

HG says that it is 2 tons per person. Double occupancy in a stateroom is the same. Although, the "barracks" is cheaper. You'd think that you could have racks like in a sub. MUCH smaller than 2 tons per person.

Yeah, but don't forget that the crew accommodation includes long term life support equipment (even atomic subs that stay under for months use snorkels to replenish their air) and common areas. The actual barracks sleeping area are likely to be similar "racks" as on a naval ship, sure.

 

[DFW]

Yeah, but don't forget that the crew accommodation includes long term life support equipment (even atomic subs that stay under for months use snorkels to replenish their air) and common areas. The actual barracks sleeping area are likely to be similar "racks" as on a naval ship, sure.

True, life support takes much of the accommo tonnage. BTW - Boomers can stay under water w/o air exchange until their food runs out (about 3 months). Handy for hiding...

 

[rust]

The Stock Barracks from Merchant Prince have a volume of 10 dtons and
hold 20 humanoid-sized life forms, "safely and healthily", and "placing no
further taxation on the life-support systems of the ship", so 0.5 dtons in-
cluding life support obviously are the bare minimum required for any
transport of passengers.

 

[rinku]

Just had a quick check, and boomers pull that trick by cracking seawater to extract oxygen, so it's not something a spacecraft can emulate (unless it's hiding in an ocean itself). It IS worth noting that a Traveller spaceship can (and will) replenish oxygen from mining ice for fuel - belters would rely on that trick a lot.

 

[DFW]

Just had a quick check, and boomers pull that trick by cracking seawater to extract oxygen, so it's not something a spacecraft can emulate (unless it's hiding in an ocean itself). It IS worth noting that a Traveller spaceship can (and will) replenish oxygen from mining ice for fuel - belters would rely on that trick a lot.

My traveller ships crack the CO2 for oxygen replenishment. In a sub, CO2 is scrubbed and the O2 is replaced as you state. On a space ship, the CO2 is scrubbed and then itself cracked to get back the O2.

 

[far-trader]

Just had a quick check, and boomers pull that trick by cracking seawater to extract oxygen, so it's not something a spacecraft can emulate (unless it's hiding in an ocean itself). It IS worth noting that a Traveller spaceship can (and will) replenish oxygen from mining ice for fuel - belters would rely on that trick a lot.

My traveller ships crack the CO2 for oxygen replenishment. In a sub, CO2 is scrubbed and the O2 is replaced as you state. On a space ship, the CO2 is scrubbed and then itself cracked to get back the O2.

Very interesting DFW. I'd never really thought about it till you mentioned it but figured there was something like that at work. I think the standard CO2 scrubbers capture (as in locked up) the whole of the CO2 processed though, leaving no way to reclaim/crack the O2 also trapped.

So basically I'd describe the system as an artificial leaf array I suppose, conducting the natural CO2-O2 cycle. I wonder if there are any such actual systems in the works or usage? I like it as I can envision it as being quite bulky and expensive, justifying the large size and cost of life support systems (couches and staterooms and such) as well as the expendables portion required ("recharging" the "leaves").

 

[DFW]

So basically I'd describe the system as an artificial leaf array I suppose, conducting the natural CO2-O2 cycle. I wonder if there are any such actual systems in the works or usage?

http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/news/expandnews.cfm?id=332

I'm sure as TL increases (along with power systems) the devices get smaller.
Sounds like you came up with a possible design.

 

[rinku]

If it's actually mimicking photosynthetic O2/CO2, then water is also going to be involved. In any case, whatever means you have of "cracking" CO2 to reclaim oxygen (and it's unlikely to be electrolytic according to what I've read), you'll have to account for excess carbon. A possible result, for example would be CO2 and 2xH2O in with 2xO2 and CH4 (methane) out.

Maybe the carbon (and water) is going into food production? Or maybe you're venting excess carbon into jumpspace or storing it in soot bags.

 

[DFW]

If it's actually mimicking photosynthetic O2/CO2, then water is also going to be involved. In any case, whatever means you have of "cracking" CO2 to reclaim oxygen (and it's unlikely to be electrolytic according to what I've read), you'll have to account for excess carbon. A possible result, for example would be CO2 and 2xH2O in with 2xO2 and CH4 (methane) out.

Maybe the carbon (and water) is going into food production? Or maybe you're venting excess carbon into jumpspace or storing it in soot bags.

Here's how it is done. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-insitu-99c.html Yes, you have CO as a product.

 

[far-trader]

...

Here's how it is done. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-insitu-99c.html Yes, you have CO as a product.

Thanks for the second link DFW! The first seemed a dead end of 404s but this one is interesting, and the tech goes back to 1999! It's hard to keep up and in the loop on everything. I wonder what's happened since...

 

[DFW]

Thanks for the second link DFW! The first seemed a dead end of 404s but this one is interesting, and the tech goes back to 1999! It's hard to keep up and in the loop on everything. I wonder what's happened since...

You're welcome. I have a couple of business cards from people at JPL/NASA.
I got them years ago but maybe I should e-mail them...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Makes you wonder just what it is that you pay Cr2000 a month in sateroom support for. High tech air scrubbing and recycling systems would seem to need minimal filters and replacement parts. Air you get for free when you open the doors on a planet or station. Food, well it could be realy expensive ration packs. Weekly laundry service perhaps.

 

[far-trader]

Makes you wonder just what it is that you pay Cr2000 a month in sateroom support for...

Two weeks actually iirc. I long ago wrapped that little problem up in a nice neat bow, by dividing the cost (and most other starship costs and prices as part of the package) by 10. At Cr200 it worked out nicely for decent meals. Not OTU of course but it works for me.

 

[DFW]

Makes you wonder just what it is that you pay Cr2000 a month in sateroom support for. High tech air scrubbing and recycling systems would seem to need minimal filters and replacement parts. Air you get for free when you open the doors on a planet or station. Food, well it could be realy expensive ration packs. Weekly laundry service perhaps.

Yes, ridiculously high. Also, don't you pay even if the stateroom is vacant?

 

[rust]

I long ago wrapped that little problem up in a nice neat bow, by dividing the cost (and most other starship costs and prices as part of the package) by 10. At Cr200 it worked out nicely for decent meals. Not OTU of course but it works for me.

I like that idea.

Did you also divide the prices of the starships themselves by 10 ?

I did reduce the starship prices in my setting significantly, because I con-
sider them as mostly built by robots, but I did never go as far down as
10 %. However, thinking about it, this could also work quite well.

 

[far-trader]

...

Did you also divide the prices of the starships themselves by 10 ?

Yep.

It made the whole thing (private ownership of Free Traders, loaning out of Scout ships, conversion of decommissioned Scout ships into Seekers) feel more reasonable to me. Millions of credits instead of 10s of Millions of credits. And monthly operations in the 10s of thousands instead of 100s of thousands. So a missed trade run to have an adventure meant the payback didn't have to be as high (i.e. more reasonable).

It also allowed more ordinary passengers instead of just very wealthy ones. And the ones using lowberths were really destitute.

It also meant any lucky hits in speculative trade shouldn't break the game. No instant millionaires with no reason to keep operating a run down Free Trader.

In CT parlance, basically everything in Book 2 is divided by 10. Build, revenue, expenses, salaries. I considered making CT Book 2 builds the standard (Civilian mostly) ships while CT Book 5 builds are custom (Military mostly) ships with no divide by 10.

The same ideas should work well with Mongoose Traveller too.

 

[rust]

The same ideas should work well with Mongoose Traveller too.

Thank you for the idea, I will try it in my next setting.

 

[rinku]

Makes you wonder just what it is that you pay Cr2000 a month in sateroom support for...

Two weeks actually iirc.

Nope, it's monthly.

Which reminds me of a particular bugbear of mine. All the ship costs are rated in months, including the mortgage which specifically equates 480 months with 20 years. However, the 3I uses a Julian calender without months!

So... exactly when do the mortgage payment and other costs fall due?

As to the high cost of life support... well, Cr2000 per month (let's call it 28 days for simplicity) comes to Cr71 per day, or Cr23 per meal. That actually feels about right to me. I have serious doubts that a totally closed recycling system would be acceptable, as it would mean in effect eating food produced from the waste products of every person on the ship. Once you remove food and solid waste from the recycling loop, it looks about right to me. Certainly 10% seems a bit lowish (though by no means impossible, and applying it to all ship costs is a neat idea!).