Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
AndrewW said:
Yes, and for something as important, valuable and portable as space ships, the security measures will resemble those on Imperial credits. You had better have an incredibly good forger.
Egil
Steward Skill in Mrechant Prince
- Thread starter smiths121
- Start date
Yes, and for something as important, valuable and portable as space ships, the security measures will resemble those on Imperial credits. You had better have an incredibly good forger.
Egil
I suspect that it would not be too difficult to get a fair price for a TL 15
ship in the Sword Worlds, and that Imperial repo men would not be ve-
ry welcome there. The Vargr Extents would probably be a bit more ris-
ky, but any Imperial organization would have even less of a reach the-
re. And with a few million credits to spare, it should not be too difficult
to buy a new identity and excellent personal security.
The main problem would probably be that one can do something like
this only once or twice before it becomes truly dangerous, but on the
other hand the 50 million credits one might well get for a ship that ori-
ginally was priced at 500 million credits should be sufficient for a nice
retirement ...
ship in the Sword Worlds, and that Imperial repo men would not be ve-
ry welcome there. The Vargr Extents would probably be a bit more ris-
ky, but any Imperial organization would have even less of a reach the-
re. And with a few million credits to spare, it should not be too difficult
to buy a new identity and excellent personal security.
The main problem would probably be that one can do something like
this only once or twice before it becomes truly dangerous, but on the
other hand the 50 million credits one might well get for a ship that ori-
ginally was priced at 500 million credits should be sufficient for a nice
retirement ...
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
DFW said:
You would be lucky to get 2%.
If ships are easy to sell on, then, yes, an impossibly large deposit (much more than 20%!) would be required and you can forget about independent free traders, the corps will do all the trade themselves.
If ships are hard to sell on illegaly, then you can operate with little or no collateral (and vigorous enforcement, when neccessary).
Egil
Egil Skallagrimsson said:
Naw, much of the Vargr areas care a wit about Imperial law and will draw up their own paper. As has been pointed out earlier on the thread. Hell, with no D.P. or collateral required, Vargr are probably hiring Imperials to pull this scam. I don't know how some GMs keep a credible econ rolling.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
rust said:
The Sword World's are not a bandit kingdom, but an advanced and moral culture based on honour. While the Imperial bailiffs will not be welcome, the sword worlds would police stuff like this themselves, and return the vessel and its crew (well, except in wartime), and the Imperium will do the same. More practically, the Sword Worlds are not stupid, just very proud, and harbouring fraudsters and theives would not be worth the risk in increased tension with the Imperials
The vargr extents might be the best place to run to with what is, effectively, a stolen ship. In those areas the Mega Corps would hire Vargr bounty hunters, so be prepared to run a very long way. If you do manage to sell the ship, the price will be very low, after all, you can't get a market price in a criminal transaction.
Egil
True, but at the same time below TL 15, so many Sword Worlds corpo-Egil Skallagrimsson said:
rations and perhaps even some governments could well be interested
in the technology of an Imperial TL 15 starship, and therefore willing to
pay a fair price for it. Honour goes only so far when a profit can be ma-
de with stolen technology.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
rust said:
Must admit that I would tend to set an upper limit of credit depending on the credibilty of the PCs, probably a max of 100 MCr, quite possibly 40MCr.
Egil
Captain Jonah
Mongoose
All good points for the prospective starship thief.
Still you need someone to keep all those bounty hunting adventurers in work, no criminals to chase, no rewards to collect.
As regards deposits for ships and the like. Asking for a large deposit rules out players owning ships unless they have the odd Mcr10 lying around.
Far more likely they will background check the people involved. Retired merchant captain, getting a used ship through a well known trade line. Been working the sector 20 years, plenty of recomendations and character witnessess. Sign here sir.
Off the street adventurer, not known, flagged by local law enforcement for borderline activities, known assocoiate of criminals etc. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
With it being easy to steal a ship and flee across the borders and with the lack of high speed comunication of traveller banks etc are going to check very carefully who they lend money too but they still lend money and insure it against loss.
Anyway why would the sword worlders want a stolen Imperial ship, its not like they are big enough to hide it.
The doggies would be more likely to do a deal but then they may just as well do the deal then sell the location of the shipjacker to the bounty hunters. Plus of course do this enough to get noticedand the local clan gets a visit from the hugely overstrength corridor fleet who pop in to say hi and for a few years after this the nearby clans are reluctant to handle stolen Imperial ships.
So sure with planning you can steal a ship, then what, retire on the money. Your traveller life in the Imperium just died, you could spend the rest of your life in the extents but even so steal a ship from one person, sell it to another and no one will trust you with a ship again.
Still you need someone to keep all those bounty hunting adventurers in work, no criminals to chase, no rewards to collect.
As regards deposits for ships and the like. Asking for a large deposit rules out players owning ships unless they have the odd Mcr10 lying around.
Far more likely they will background check the people involved. Retired merchant captain, getting a used ship through a well known trade line. Been working the sector 20 years, plenty of recomendations and character witnessess. Sign here sir.
Off the street adventurer, not known, flagged by local law enforcement for borderline activities, known assocoiate of criminals etc. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
With it being easy to steal a ship and flee across the borders and with the lack of high speed comunication of traveller banks etc are going to check very carefully who they lend money too but they still lend money and insure it against loss.
Anyway why would the sword worlders want a stolen Imperial ship, its not like they are big enough to hide it.
The doggies would be more likely to do a deal but then they may just as well do the deal then sell the location of the shipjacker to the bounty hunters. Plus of course do this enough to get noticedand the local clan gets a visit from the hugely overstrength corridor fleet who pop in to say hi and for a few years after this the nearby clans are reluctant to handle stolen Imperial ships.
So sure with planning you can steal a ship, then what, retire on the money. Your traveller life in the Imperium just died, you could spend the rest of your life in the extents but even so steal a ship from one person, sell it to another and no one will trust you with a ship again.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
rust said:
And there you hit one of the issues with the 3I set up, the Sword Worlds have had centuries to buy up Imperial technology, reverse engineer it and produce their own. They have no need to rely on odd stolen ships.
"Why are the Sword Worlders not at TL14?" sounds like a different thread.
Egil
Captain Jonah said:Anyway why would the sword worlders want a stolen Imperial ship, its not like they are big enough to hide it.
No need to hide it. If it is a standard design you just change out the transponder and any in place ID. Done. WELL worth the time/effort to get a new 100 mega credit ship.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
DFW said:
Trouble is, if starships are really that easy to make off with, a 20% deposit is still no deterrant, if, as you seem to be saying, you can sell it for the best part of 100%.
I can see your argument that free traders are an uneconomic and unlikely idea, but in MTU I like the idea enough to think through the economics of it, and the likely restrictions. In YTU, is it all MegaCorp shipping?
Egil
I take it we concluded screw the Free Trader tables if you do not like them :wink:
A quick look at the at the Skipping on Debt table in the Core rulebook shows your going to spend your time on the run, for at least half a year.
-1 per parsec so 5 weeks assuming continuous jump on a free trader is -5.
Free Trader value is @ 50 MCr so +5 for value, Payment 1 to 6 months overdue +4 means + to be found by Bounty Hunters, it goes up on Law Level 6 or above worlds.
Lower Law Level Worlds actually hide you as they reduce the chance of being found. I might give players a break if they do better than jump 4 a turn as they are out running their debt.
I do not think Bounty Hunters necessarily honour the Imperium border. Note Bounty Hunters not Repo men, not sure getting the ship back is highest priority. If you get caught in the Sword Worlds without the 500MCr ship (note that is +50 to the dice role), think the Imperium may want have a word with you as well.
A quick look at the at the Skipping on Debt table in the Core rulebook shows your going to spend your time on the run, for at least half a year.
-1 per parsec so 5 weeks assuming continuous jump on a free trader is -5.
Free Trader value is @ 50 MCr so +5 for value, Payment 1 to 6 months overdue +4 means + to be found by Bounty Hunters, it goes up on Law Level 6 or above worlds.
Lower Law Level Worlds actually hide you as they reduce the chance of being found. I might give players a break if they do better than jump 4 a turn as they are out running their debt.
I do not think Bounty Hunters necessarily honour the Imperium border. Note Bounty Hunters not Repo men, not sure getting the ship back is highest priority. If you get caught in the Sword Worlds without the 500MCr ship (note that is +50 to the dice role), think the Imperium may want have a word with you as well.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
Captain Jonah said:All good points for the prospective starship thief.
Still you need someone to keep all those bounty hunting adventurers in work, no criminals to chase, no rewards to collect.
As regards deposits for ships and the like. Asking for a large deposit rules out players owning ships unless they have the odd Mcr10 lying around.
Far more likely they will background check the people involved. Retired merchant captain, getting a used ship through a well known trade line. Been working the sector 20 years, plenty of recomendations and character witnessess. Sign here sir.
Off the street adventurer, not known, flagged by local law enforcement for borderline activities, known assocoiate of criminals etc. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
With it being easy to steal a ship and flee across the borders and with the lack of high speed comunication of traveller banks etc are going to check very carefully who they lend money too but they still lend money and insure it against loss.
Anyway why would the sword worlders want a stolen Imperial ship, its not like they are big enough to hide it.
The doggies would be more likely to do a deal but then they may just as well do the deal then sell the location of the shipjacker to the bounty hunters. Plus of course do this enough to get noticedand the local clan gets a visit from the hugely overstrength corridor fleet who pop in to say hi and for a few years after this the nearby clans are reluctant to handle stolen Imperial ships.
So sure with planning you can steal a ship, then what, retire on the money. Your traveller life in the Imperium just died, you could spend the rest of your life in the extents but even so steal a ship from one person, sell it to another and no one will trust you with a ship again.
Agreed, comprehensive background checks required for anything legitimate. Of course, rogues etc may be able to raise mortgages from the criminal underworld, but there loyalty tests, and penalties for running off with the starship, are likely to be just as rigorous.
Egil
In my setting someone who wants a bank loan for a merchant vessel has
to undergo a thorough background check and to present an economically
viable business plan for a specific trade route or region, and the bank ma-
kes sure that the ship's computer is programmed accordingly - leave the
specified region or try to tamper with the computer, and the ship's black-
box transponder will cry bloody murder while the engines will shut down.
There are rumours that some banks even go further than that, and that
they would rather have a ship destroyed by some kind of hidden device
than to have a ship stolen ...
to undergo a thorough background check and to present an economically
viable business plan for a specific trade route or region, and the bank ma-
kes sure that the ship's computer is programmed accordingly - leave the
specified region or try to tamper with the computer, and the ship's black-
box transponder will cry bloody murder while the engines will shut down.
There are rumours that some banks even go further than that, and that
they would rather have a ship destroyed by some kind of hidden device
than to have a ship stolen ...
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
smiths121 said:
Re: freight and passanger tables, the ones in MonT work well for traders up to 400 or 500t, if you are not getting freight or passangers there is a reason for it.
Re: Skipping out on debts, tend to see this as the minimum response, as news spreads out along the x boat net work, even to neutral states (even the Sword Worlds) who are likely to have treaty obligations with the 3I, it will become impossible to dock anywhere for repairs, life support or to collect cargo. The only option may well be piracy and flight to somewhere off the star chart.
Egil
